Declining participation and ARU plans for the future

[wamberal]

Although to be scrupulously fair, a worldwide search would have to find somebody who understands (a) the game and (b) the realities of the Australian sporting landscape.


I would not downplay what was achieved at Wimbledon, and having worked for a number of years with conservative Englishmen in a conservative organisation there is no doubt that it would have taken very considerable skills, perserverance, and a lot of patient coalition-building.


But it was not an impossible challenge. And it could not have been done without some support. Not to mention the obvious fact that tennis is actually a very popular game.


Some challenges are, by their very nature, impossible. I am calling the challenge of transforming Australian rugby, under the current framework for the game internationally, impossible.


So even Superman could not do it.

 

[Quick Hands]

Not quite impossible, but extremely difficult.

As things stand we require a Kerry Packer or Frank Lowy type who has bucket loads of money, genuinely has the future of the game at heart and is willing to spend their own money and invest their own emotional energy in putting a broom through the whole administration.

 

[half]

Just on the Lowy thing be careful what you wish for. It was not as clear cut as some make out.

Soccer went broke, SBS approached the government for help, and John Howard essentially said find the right person and we will help. Johnny Warren begged Lowy to take over and with Warren’s endorsement [Warren is hugely respected in the soccer world] Lowy was anointed and was given dictatorial power.

Lowy turned the place on its head, but he had the backing of SBS and the soccer fans in general.

Lowy crushed any dissent, many of the former NSL people accused him of being a tyrant, a bully. He did not care he did what he believed needed to be done.

Interestingly one of his first actions was to publicly say the A-League was far more important than the Socceroos. He said getting the A=League right was his prime goal his belief that if you build a strong national domestic competition you will attract new players and from that player base you can create your national teams.

I don’t think rugby has fallen to the depths of the old Soccer Australia, who were apart from inept and incompetent were corrupt.

I don’t necessary disagree that we need a visionary leader and one who will build bottom up rather than dictate from a top down. Soccer was bankrupt BUT had the backing of a TV network. SBS may not be much but by fuck they have helped soccer over the years. We don’t have media friends anymore we used to have the ABC but somehow over the last 15 to 20 years we let it waste away.


So if we want a Lowy then you need to be, pass on your knees, its one minute PAST midnight when they are appointed and we are nowhere near this.

 

[TOCC]

NSL was a basket case with far too many clubs and figures pushing self-interest ahead of the greater good.. some clubs were aligned to ethnicity and had engrained cultural issues.

Starting from scratch and forcing a new structure was key to ensuring the A-Leagues viability for the future, NSL had teams which represented only portions or certain demographics of the community, Lowry wanted a comp which had teams representing the wider community, that ostracised a lot of existing clubs.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Just on the Lowy thing be careful what you wish for. It was not as clear cut as some make out.

Soccer went broke, SBS approached the government for help, and John Howard essentially said find the right person and we will help. Johnny Warren begged Lowy to take over and with Warren’s endorsement [Warren is hugely respected in the soccer world] Lowy was anointed and was given dictatorial power.

Lowy turned the place on its head, but he had the backing of SBS and the soccer fans in general.

Lowy crushed any dissent, many of the former NSL people accused him of being a tyrant, a bully. He did not care he did what he believed needed to be done.

Interestingly one of his first actions was to publicly say the A-League was far more important than the Socceroos. He said getting the A=League right was his prime goal his belief that if you build a strong national domestic competition you will attract new players and from that player base you can create your national teams.

I don’t think rugby has fallen to the depths of the old Soccer Australia, who were apart from inept and incompetent were corrupt.

I don’t necessary disagree that we need a visionary leader and one who will build bottom up rather than dictate from a top down. Soccer was bankrupt BUT had the backing of a TV network. SBS may not be much but by fuck they have helped soccer over the years. We don’t have media friends anymore we used to have the ABC but somehow over the last 15 to 20 years we let it waste away.


So if we want a Lowy then you need to be, pass on your knees, its one minute PAST midnight when they are appointed and we are nowhere near this.

I.agree with most of the comments on here as establishing a professional domestic competition at minimum.a 10 year vision unless a Kerry packet type investor in oz Rugby emerges. The short form semi pro next is a good baby step towards this with different rules which create more attacking rugby than penalty goal stop start. But my point is to.have this with only 4 professional super rugby clubs would be huge backward.step.imo

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I.agree with most of the comments on here as establishing a professional domestic competition at minimum.a 10 year vision unless a Kerry packet type investor in oz Rugby emerges. The short form semi pro next is a good baby step towards this with different rules which create more attacking rugby than penalty goal stop start. But my point is to.have this with only 4 professional super rugby clubs would be huge backward.step.imo

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

The flip side of that is with the monies saved from dropping one franchise could be redirected to better resource the NRC which is that semi-professional tier with alternative variations designed to promote attacking Rugby.

 

[dru]

The flip side of that is with the monies saved from dropping one franchise could be redirected to better resource the NRC which is that semi-professional tier with alternative variations designed to promote attacking Rugby.

Does this happen without an at least equal drop in revenue?

Lose a team and I would expect funds to reduce.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Does this happen without an at least equal drop in revenue?

Lose a team and I would expect funds to reduce.

There certainly is that danger. You would hope those making these decisions would have consulted their broadcast partners about the likely impact on the overall value of the deals. If it means we end up with less in the kitty then we should be fighting any reduction of our teams tooth and nail.

Though an argument could be made that having four more competitive franchises (in theory) would make up for the lost viewer numbers as by being more competitive they would draw greater TV viewing figures.

The Force regularly rated in the low 30,000 range last season (not saying I want to see them cut) but it could be argued with the four major markets on the East Coast with stronger squads could make up for that loss with greater levels of success. And them some.

Personally, I'd actually prefer to see the ARU work hard to better resource and promote the NRC and work with the clubs in setting up better structures in which to recruit and develop talent.

Somewhat controversial perhaps but I'd like to see the ARU sit down with the Sydney and Brisbane clubs and nut out a new league structure below the NRC in which to coral as much of the talent. Watching the Aus. Club Championship providing funding for travel and accommodation (when necessary) could be found then I think there is a case to be made for taking 6 clubs from Sydney, Qld and say Tuggeranong to create an elite structure above that of the current club structure but below the NRC where young talents and the EPS guys from the respective 5 franchises can all play in a more competitive competition.

NB: The clubs selected would all still compete in the SS, QPR, JID but run essentially a 2nds squad at that level which would be a mix of those not selected for the elite squad and 2nd graders who could make the jump etc.

 

[Joe King]

Does this happen without an at least equal drop in revenue?

Lose a team and I would expect funds to reduce.

I think that's usually the case, but I remember the ARU suggesting that the overall amount of broadcast revenue may not change if they were to cut a team in this particular case - at least in the short term. But I could be wrong about that.

 

[rebeltah]

Having grown up in Victoria I'm new to rugby, and (from my perspective as someone who knew nothing about the sport before the 2011 World Cup) a major issue is the total lack of concentrated levels of support in any part of the country, including in Sydney where I now live.

If you move to Melbourne, Perth or Adelaide you'll always find someone to play AFL with. The same goes for League in Sydney or Brisbane, and soccer's simplicity and global appeal means it's easy to find a few mates to have a kick about. However, finding other rugby fans just to talk about the sport is something I've found extremely challenging, let alone getting together with people of my skill level (read: complete beginner) to play a game or two.

Because of this, the ARU and other rugby associations need to put in considerably more effort to break into these markets than their counterparts in NZ, South Africa or England, where the code appears to be a bit more entrenched. However, if efforts are being made to do this they are not especially successful.

My experience with the VIVA7s seems to embody the current issues faced by Australian rugby. I live nowhere near any current 7s competitions and so I emailed the main contact to see if anything was starting up nearby. Unfortunately, the stock response I received was "email your nearest club and ask them, we have nothing to do with the competitions on the ground". In contrast, when I got in touch with the AFL 9s about competitions nearby I was put through to a dedicated organiser, who got me and a group of individual players together as a team within a matter of days and had us playing in the summer competition within a week.

I'm sure a lack of resources on the part of the ARU is a significant factor here (especially compared to the AFL, which is throwing money around Sydney), but given the response from HQ was "we can't/won't help you get involved in our apparently declining sport" there seems to be a considerable amount of apathy as well. Which, when other sporting codes are putting in considerable effort to recruit new players (and have functioning websites to boot - the VIVA site is terribly slow), it's no wonder crowds have plummeted in recent years.

Perhaps I'm underestimating the challenges here, but I'd love to see two things as a way of resparking general interest in rugby: (1) devote a hell of a lot more resources into social rugby, with a particular emphasis on beginners/non-contact competitions for kids and adults alike, and (2) try to negotiate a broadcast deal whereby one or two Super Rugby matches of the week get shown on Australian free-to-air TV. By doing this, people who want to try the sport but are too inexperienced/inept at the game can have a crack at participating in a friendly environment, and can then see the professionals playing without subscribing to Foxtel or trekking to the local pub in order to view the game.

 

[wamberal]

Mate,

Getting Super Rugby onto FTA is the holy grail. The problem is, we rely on Foxtel Sport's bucks, and it would only happen over their dead body.


The only tiny little sliver of hope is that Foxtel eventually takes over TEN. But even then, we would not be on prime time on the main channel.

 

[rebeltah]

Mate,

Getting Super Rugby onto FTA is the holy grail. The problem is, we rely on Foxtel Sport's bucks, and it would only happen over their dead body.


The only tiny little sliver of hope is that Foxtel eventually takes over TEN. But even then, we would not be on prime time on the main channel.

I know nothing about the intricacies of TV sports rights, and adding in five other nations to the Super Rugby mix probably makes it even more challenging to negotiate. That said, I recall the A-League managing to broker a similar deal whereby Foxtel broadcast all games while SBS got to show off one match each week (alongside a dedicated commentary show, IIRC).

I'd love to see that come about if possible, or even just introduce a highlights show with some discussion about the competition in order to get a little more insight into what's going on.

Failing that, some additional grassroots funding for social competitions would be helpful, even if they just start it up in places like Sydney and Brisbane where there's already some level of interest in the game (and rapidly expanding populations with the potential to fall in love with the sport!).

 

[Rugby Central]

NB: The clubs selected would all still compete in the SS, QPR, JID but run essentially a 2nds squad at that level which would be a mix of those not selected for the elite squad and 2nd graders who could make the jump etc.

That's just duplicating the NRC. That would make SS, QPR, JID Tier 5.

The Clubs had a chance to do that sort of thing after the ARC fell over. I've upset a lot of SS fans on this site by pointing out the horse has bolted on the relevance of their respective competition. At least my suggestions tried to separate the social side from the elite development in order to boost the relevance of the competition.

What your advocating is making SS, QPR, JID the same level of Subbies. Even I couldn't offer that as a suggestion.

 

[Twoilms]

Rebeltah, a lot of people have been screaming for grassroots investment and some free-to-air games for a long, long time. The GAGR podcast had former high level rugby administrators/coaches come onto the show and point to these two things as being key to saving Australian rugby from gradual failure, and even achieving future success.

Problem is, for people with roles that are short term in nature like CEOs (see Bill Pulver) long term gains are irrelevant. You won't see the benefits for a long term investment strategy for 15-20+ years, at least. Bill Pulver has the unenviable task of trying to save the ARU from a dire financial situation, and long term investments for long term gains won't help him in the short term (even if they are ultimately the correct solutions). He'd have to redirect funds that can be used elsewhere, now. He won't do that.

If only we had've avoided all this by investing appropriately, 15 - 20 years ago.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

That's just duplicating the NRC. That would make SS, QPR, JID Tier 5.

The Clubs had a chance to do that sort of thing after the ARC fell over. I've upset a lot of SS fans on this site by pointing out the horse has bolted on the relevance of their respective competition. At least my suggestions tried to separate the social side from the elite development in order to boost the relevance of the competition.

What your advocating is making SS, QPR, JID the same level of Subbies. Even I couldn't offer that as a suggestion.

Yes and no. It provides a number of clubs a pathway to both play a major role in the overall development of the talent within the game while maintaining the social side of the equation. Ideally this would force the clubs to collaborate even further than at present to remain in the loop.

This is something I wouldn't mind seeing the ARU coming to the party in terms of paying for the broadcast side of things provided it is broadcast as Seven's digital platform nationwide. At present the SS is our only FTA offering. But due to its narrow focus its appeal outside of NSW is limited. This structure with involvement of Qld and ACT teams would hopefully open it up a bit more.

 

[wamberal]

Interestingly enough, the SS was telecast outside NSW on Prime or whatever it is called.


I reckon it would get an audience, there will always be some diehards who will watch a good game of rugby even if it is played in Sydney.

 

[TOCC]

I didn't think it was broadcast outside of NSW?

 

[half]

The world is hardly ever fair but how hard you work at something and face your problems, consult with stakeholders, admit errors, search for solutions will make it fairer for you.

I bemoan and am sadden whilst annoyed at our levels of miss management especially as rebeltah has posted above pertaining to emails and simply trying to engage people.

With this in mind I read with interest a release put out by FFA yesterday. In brief it said they were putting off their two expansion teams until the 2018 / 19 season, so say 18 months.

The reason, the structural model FFA have is not working, so with the clubs and other key stakeholders they have set about developing a better operating model. They have admitted to making mistakes and they need more capital.

I look at this and see a management team prepared to hold their ground and essentially along with other stakeholders develop a better structure for various stakeholders to operate in.

Given Rugby's present state were is our meeting (s) of the best minds to develop better structures for rugby to operate.

In the next post I will copy the FFA release it worth reading not because it may show us the way. What is shows is how a board can accept the model it develop is starting to fail and develop a new structure openly with key stakeholders.

 

[half]

^^^^^

This is the media release I posted about in the post above.

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au...xpansion-for-leagues/iewzmo3tl7zpzfx6z9z0z7y8

Football Federation Australia (FFA) will this week begin the detailed work with Hyundai A-League /Westfield W-League clubs to develop a new ownership and operating model for both leagues.
The feasibility of and criteria for expansion of the leagues under a new model will be further developed as part of the process.

The need to attract more investment into football was discussed by FFA Chairman Steven Lowy AM, CEO David Gallop AM and senior executives with club chairmen on February 14. The existing joint working group, which includes four Club Chairmen, will meet to discuss this on Thursday.

Analysis of football’s financial position following the conclusion of a new six year broadcasting agreement in December last year shows that rapid growth in the game generally – and expansion of the Hyundai A-League/Westfield W-League in particular – will require significant more capital investment. Changing the ownership and operating model would create a more attractive opportunity for current and prospective investors.

The FFA’s analysis found that expanding the Hyundai A-League by two teams under the current model would result in net losses over the next six years. This is because grant distributions to the new clubs, and the increase in costs to FFA for operational matters such as transport would be greater than the additional revenue the clubs would generate through broadcast arrangements and sponsorships. As the FFA is a not-for-profit organisation that redistributes all of its income into the clubs and other parts of the game, such losses are not sustainable.

“We recently advised the clubs that we must explore a new model for the Hyundai A-League/Westfield W-League. We agree that we need to protect the value of the existing licences in which the current owners have invested,” said Mr Gallop.

“We want to expand the leagues but this has to happen as part of a new structure. That’s why we are now working with the clubs to determine the future structure of the leagues and the criteria for expansion.

“We will examine these issues in detail and expect this work will take months rather than weeks. We know that those consortia that have expressed an interest in joining the league would want to be part of something that is financially sustainable and attractive as a sound investment. -

FFA is engaging a corporate advisory firm to assist with developing models for a new structure and to provide advice on the financial aspects of the expansion process.

“The decisions we make around the future of the Hyundai A-League/Westfield W-League will have an impact on every aspect of football in Australia,” said Mr Gallop. “That’s why we want to work with the clubs and other stakeholders on changes that benefit the whole game.”

Mr Gallop said FFA would provide updates on the process over the months ahead. While it was too soon to predict when expansion might occur, it would not happen before the 2018-19 season. -

 

[wamberal]

I didn't think it was broadcast outside of NSW?

Definitely on in Queensland. Not sure about other locations.