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Demise of the Waratah Shield?

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Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I've heard from the grapevine that there will be no Waratah Shield in 2016 because of insufficient interest. I hope that this is not the case.

I've had a look around the various websites - no mention of it on CHS website (only Buchan Shield for 16s and two girls knockouts), NSW Schools RU website has dates for Waratah Cup, but only TBA for Waratah Shield.

Interestingly sports high schools aren't allowed in the Buchan Shield (and presumably not the Waratah Cup either). They will play a separate knock out.

Anyone in the CHS system able to confirm or deny.
 

Black & White

Vay Wilson (31)
As a former School Teacher I am not at all surprised. There is a real absence of a sporting culture in too many of our schools, both state and independent. There are many causes nanny parents, academic emphasis at expense of a traditional well balanced Holistic education that promotes the good all rounder.I also regret to say teachers who simply don't care and hate the school's commitment to sport.

In one instance I organised a game agricultural High School, it was outside school time and the school did not assist in helping with the transport. Consequently, none of the boys showed any interest in the game and we forfeited the game. This was the third forfeit for the Agriculture High.

Even at our GPS schools, teachers are often chosen not their sporting interests, but personal preferences according to the Subject Masters.

These above reasons explain to a degree, why the rugby numbers in our schools are in decline. Its too easy to blame soccer, the reasons are far deeper and the effects are killing our game with the Waratah Shield just victim.
 

the bulldog

Stan Wickham (3)
As a former School Teacher I am not at all surprised. There is a real absence of a sporting culture in too many of our schools, both state and independent. There are many causes nanny parents, academic emphasis at expense of a traditional well balanced Holistic education that promotes the good all rounder.I also regret to say teachers who simply don't care and hate the school's commitment to sport.

In one instance I organised a game agricultural High School, it was outside school time and the school did not assist in helping with the transport. Consequently, none of the boys showed any interest in the game and we forfeited the game. This was the third forfeit for the Agriculture High.

Even at our GPS schools, teachers are often chosen not their sporting interests, but personal preferences according to the Subject Masters.

These above reasons explain to a degree, why the rugby numbers in our schools are in decline. Its too easy to blame soccer, the reasons are far deeper and the effects are killing our game with the Waratah Shield just victim.


If true it is a terrible outcome for the non Sydney rugby schools, the constant lack of support from the aru to anyone but the elite will eventually kill the game everywhere but the metro areas of the eastern seaboard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Eyes and Ears

Dick Tooth (41)
Unfortunately school rugby is far from a level playing field and this is causing a number of issues. I wonder if the 2 divisional nature of the GPS competition (1st and 3rds) is a lead to suggest that the Waratah Shield should consider having 2 or 3 divisions. For this to be successful, you would need to attract more teams into the top tier but many schools with less players and resources may enjoy playing in a lesser division.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Unfortunately school rugby is far from a level playing field and this is causing a number of issues. I wonder if the 2 divisional nature of the GPS competition (1st and 3rds) is a lead to suggest that the Waratah Shield should consider having 2 or 3 divisions. For this to be successful, you would need to attract more teams into the top tier but many schools with less players and resources may enjoy playing in a lesser division.

Heaps of teams in what could be considered to be a 2nd division - the Waratah Cup. I've heard that over 50 schools are in it.

I had a conversation during the week about this and it would appear that with ISA going to 2 rounds that at least some of the ISA school principals thought that the WS was too much. Take the ISA schools out and all that is left are state sports highs and a couple of schools from Canberra.

As sad as the demise of the Waratah Shield is, it's the Waratah Cup schools which need a competition to play in.
 

exISA

Fred Wood (13)
no surprise here. Ive been banging on about the WS's relevance on here for the last few years. Its lost its prestige and value .
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I have heard an unconfirmed rumour that the WS is to be played as a 4 team round robin in 2016.

Teams to be winners of GPS, CAS, ISA and the winner of a tournament involving the state sports high schools.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Interesting turn of events if it is true, and in some respects it sounds like a great concept.

It could lead to an Arms Race of anomalies.

I'm not sure that the Private Schools would be able to commit to an additional 3 weeks of Rugby for their 1st XV's. They transition pretty quickly to Athletics and other summer sports after the winter season has finished, and then there is the small matter of HSC exams to prepare for.
 

exISA

Fred Wood (13)
I have heard an unconfirmed rumour that the WS is to be played as a 4 team round robin in 2016.

Teams to be winners of GPS, CAS, ISA and the winner of a tournament involving the state sports high schools.

now that is a good idea. brings some prestige back to it, and also can run like a "champions league" showing who really is the strongest NSW/ACT school at least. Im all for it.
 

formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
I have heard an unconfirmed rumour that the WS is to be played as a 4 team round robin in 2016.

Teams to be winners of GPS, CAS, ISA and the winner of a tournament involving the state sports high schools.


Rugby-wise, a great concept.
To minimise time spent and potentially harming education, what about a two week knockout? GPS winner v CAS winner, ISA winner v Sports High School in week 1. In week 2 winners play for WS, losers play for 3rd/4th place. Next year rotate the match-ups.
Double Headers each week.
Played on Wednesday night under lights.
Final held at North Sydney Oval.
 

Armchair Selector

Johnnie Wallace (23)
To minimise time spent and potentially harming education, what about a two week knockout? GPS winner v CAS winner, ISA winner v Sports High School in week 1. In week 2 winners play for WS, losers play for 3rd/4th place. Next year rotate the match-ups.
Double Headers each week.
Played on Wednesday night under lights.
Final held at North Sydney Oval.

I think it would be a fantastic concept. Presumably it would follow after the culmination of the respective competitions.

How would that fit in with NSW Schools and Australian Schools not to mention education....
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I think that there's a bit of logistics to get over before this happens. Not the least of which is that fixtures are set in place almost a year in advance.

This sounds like back of the envelope stuff after 6 schooners.
 

formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
I think that there's a bit of logistics to get over before this happens. Not the least of which is that fixtures are set in place almost a year in advance.

This sounds like back of the envelope stuff after 6 schooners.

I resent that. I didn't use an envelope at all and 6 schooners would see me incapable of using any communication media.

My pie in the sky blathering is based on a deep sadness for the demise of the WS and the consequent diminution of the rugby playing base in NSW.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I resent that. I didn't use an envelope at all and 6 schooners would see me incapable of using any communication media.

My pie in the sky blathering is based on a deep sadness for the demise of the WS and the consequent diminution of the rugby playing base in NSW.

I share your sadness - unfortunately the horse bolted 10-15 years ago and NSWRU/ARU have only just realised that there's an issue in the state school system.
 

Black & White

Vay Wilson (31)
I share your sadness - unfortunately the horse bolted 10-15 years ago and NSWRU/ARU have only just realised that there's an issue in the state school system.


I regret to say that with the exception of the Sports High Schools, Agricultural High Schools and a few Boys High Schools such as Epping, Randwick and Homebush, that state high schools will simply, too often lack the Sports Ethos needed to run an effective Rugby Program.

Teachers don't get paid extra for an after school commitment, In fact some schools and Teachers discourage other members of Staff from doing it. One for Industrial Award reasons as its not in their contracts, although School Principals can direct Staff members to engage in after school activities. But few would do so for fear of their teachers rebelling against it. Second, it makes those Teachers who don't involve themselves in after school activities look bad.

The solution I believe is to invest heavily in club juniors and get the clubs and Sydney Rugby Union to control their own juniors. Such as appointing their own coaches and development officers. For instance Eastwood or Gordon juniors from 12 to 18 years, would wear the club colours and uniforms of the Colts and Grade teams. Thereby, identifying with their parent club.

So Eastwood or Gordon would merge all their juniors into the following age divisions:-12s,13s,14s,15s, 16s and an open division for 17and 18 year olds
This structure would thus reflect the GPS,CAS and ISA school systems or age groups. A GPS/ CAS/ISA schools might even play a fixtures against these club juniors. They do in Canberra.

Rugby League survives on club juniors more than schools. Its time Union stop relying too heavily on our elite schools to be the essential feeder for our game. Although, I am sure their are numerous difficulties with such a system I believe an alternative is required to boost numbers playing rugby. Our game is approaching a critical stage and its time the ARU, stop "playing the fiddle while Rome burns".

Failure to do so and in 10-15 years, this site might well be devoted to soccer. Or even whose, Rugby League, because the ARU "Dropped the Ball" and failed to read the signs regarding the decline of junior player numbers.

Gentleman, something needs to be done, our game is in jeopardy at the junior level. So I wonder, if the "Shore Mafia" who currently run Australian Rugby Union, are up to task. I hope they are, but at present I don't feel that confident in their leadership and direction.
 

Black & White

Vay Wilson (31)
I regret to say that with the exception of the Sports High Schools, Agricultural High Schools and a few Boys High Schools such as Epping, Randwick and Homebush, that state high schools will simply, too often lack the Sports Ethos needed to run an effective Rugby Program.

Teachers don't get paid extra for an after school commitment, In fact some schools and Teachers discourage other members of Staff from doing it. One for Industrial Award reasons as its not in their contracts, although School Principals can direct Staff members to engage in after school activities. But few would do so for fear of their teachers rebelling against it. Second, it makes those Teachers who don't involve themselves in after school activities look bad.

The solution I believe is to invest heavily in club juniors and get the clubs and Sydney Rugby Union to control their own juniors. Such as appointing their own coaches and development officers. For instance Eastwood or Gordon juniors from 12 to 18 years, would wear the club colours and uniforms of the Colts and Grade teams. Thereby, identifying with their parent club.

So Eastwood or Gordon would merge all their juniors into the following age divisions:-12s,13s,14s,15s, 16s and an open division for 17and 18 year olds
This structure would thus reflect the GPS,CAS and ISA school systems or age groups. A GPS/ CAS/ISA schools might even play a fixtures against these club juniors. They do in Canberra.

Rugby League survives on club juniors more than schools. Its time Union stop relying too heavily on our elite schools to be the essential feeder for our game. Although, I am sure their are numerous difficulties with such a system I believe an alternative is required to boost numbers playing rugby. Our game is approaching a critical stage and its time the ARU, stop "playing the fiddle while Rome burns".

Failure to do so and in 10-15 years, this site might well be devoted to soccer. Or even whose, Rugby League, because the ARU "Dropped the Ball" and failed to read the signs regarding the decline of junior player numbers.

Gentleman, something needs to be done, our game is in jeopardy at the junior level. So I wonder, if the "Shore Mafia" who currently run Australian Rugby Union, are up to task. I hope they are, but at present I don't feel that confident in their leadership and direction.


My apologies, I should written worst not whose. When your angry and sick and tired of the ARU to address this critical issue you write with your heart
 

sarcophilus

Charlie Fox (21)
sad But we could see it coming as alluded to in
2016 ISA Waratah Shield and inner ear infections.

The Shield was a knock out competition. It should only be supplementary to other comprehensive development programs. No school or club is going to gear up for a season that may last just one week
The Waratah cup is a great vehicle for casual participants. A cascade of round robins, It also helps prop up the statistical lies of a growing stagnant sport administration.

I am not sure that the sport is unchallenged in the 2.5 dominant associations. Strong participants outside of these have how much meaningful competition?
Education is about trying to get the balance right the school system owes nothing to any code

Club rugby provides the only real alternative site for development of the code we all love

unfortunately the Casey Jones found the cognac in the guards carriage to enticing and was to busy watching a glorious past unravel out the back window rather than reading the signals. the Public school twats that run the place have to get out of the circle of mutual gratification and get into the real ball game .
 

loiterer

Sydney Middleton (9)
The solution I believe is to invest heavily in club juniors and get the clubs and Sydney Rugby Union to control their own juniors. Such as appointing their own coaches and development officers. For instance Eastwood or Gordon juniors from 12 to 18 years, would wear the club colours and uniforms of the Colts and Grade teams. Thereby, identifying with their parent club.

So Eastwood or Gordon would merge all their juniors into the following age divisions:-12s,13s,14s,15s, 16s and an open division for 17and 18 year olds
This structure would thus reflect the GPS,CAS and ISA school systems or age groups. A GPS/ CAS/ISA schools might even play a fixtures against these club juniors. They do in Canberra.
I think this would prove particularly difficult for Eastwood and Gordon in particular as 90% of their players are at GPS/CAS/ISA schools. Considering the fact that the schools like to stick to their traditional associations, it's hard too see this as a solution.
 

Dazzling

Frank Nicholson (4)
My apologies, I should written worst not whose. When your angry and sick and tired of the ARU to address this critical issue you write with your heart


I really hope the Waratah Shield continues and that the state high schools can play a role. Reading this thread brought back some great memories from 1976/77 (can't remember which year to be precise). I played for Hurstville Boys High School in a few Waratah Shield games in that year. We had a good side, a couple of St George colts (before the reorganisation), some good club players and we were coached by former Wallaby Barry Stumbles. I recall we got to the final stages and played a school from Fairfield. We lost by a few points. A tough game played on their home turf with the 99% of the spectators being Fairfield students. But what happened next really only resonated with me a few years later. Fairfield were a decent side, a big pack and some quick backs and well coached.In the next round, might even have been the semi's, they came up against Matraville High. They got absolutely spanked by Matraville. Maybe by 60/70 points. I was gobsmacked. I couldn't see how that could happen to the Fairfield side we had played a few weeks before. Its only now when you know that that Matraville side had at least several Ella's in their team and I reckon the current England coach as hooker that you appreciate the difference between good and truly great!
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I think this would prove particularly difficult for Eastwood and Gordon in particular as 90% of their players are at GPS/CAS/ISA schools. Considering the fact that the schools like to stick to their traditional associations, it's hard too see this as a solution.

Although it wasn't always so Loiterer. There was a time in the not so distant past when there was a Saturday club competition that was independent of school rugby players - and even included clubs from Gordon and Eastwood.

Alas, times have changed - which is an indictment on the past 2 decades of what passes for administration at the highest levels. (ARU/NSWRU)
 
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