England v NZ & Aust 2015

[Brumby Runner]

I would love to see Khwaja kick on.

So next Ashes side

Warner
Khwaja
Smith (C)
Burns
Lynn
Marsh
Neville
Starc
Hazlewood
Cummins
Lyon

Pattinson/Ahmed (12th man)

Wow.

I am not a real fan of Khwaja. Has been given opportunities in the past and not set the world on fire. I'd prefer Nic Maddinson be given a go. Agree with Burns and Lynn (especially).

With the bowlers, I think Pattinson will be a better long term prospect than Pat Cummins, who was brilliant when he first came on the scene. But I think his injuries have taken a toll.

Hopefully, Mitch Marsh makes a good fist of the all rounder spot, but if not, either Faulkner of Maxwell could take his spot. Both have been batting good lately but not too wrapped in either's bowling at top level.

 

[Highlander35]

My issue with Jimmy F is that I don't see him batting in the top 6. In the subcontinent, a 5-1-5 split is feasible because you generally need to take 2 spinners with you, and sacrificing a little bit of batting to do so is fine. But to do it in general, he needs to be good enough to be demanding a spot on his bowling alone, as well as the keeper being good enough to bat 6 as well.

Maxwells problems are well noted, in that his fielding is sublime, his batting is temperamental, and his bowling is not genuine allrounder, just much better than part timer.

Think Mitch the 3rd is probably the best option for the foreseeable future. I like Lynn and Burns too. Not sure about Maddinson or Khwaja. Think SMarsh should get the first opportunity, if he fails we might see Ed Cowan again. If that's another failure, I guess Nic or Ussie deserve a shot, but I've not been enthralled by either of them.

 

[light]

Voges' second innings knock proving that he really isn't up to test standard.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Punter has done a piece for ESPNcricinfo.com in which he says there's 8 of the current Aus squad who won't play Test cricket beyond The Oval. He names four, being Harris (retired already), Rogers (retirement announced), Haddin & Watson. Who are the other four?

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/spo...half-of-australias-squad-20150807-giuix3.html

 

[No4918]

S Marsh
Siddle
Voges

Eight is being very hard on the players. You would think it's Johnson or Clarke due to their age but Johnsons form is still good enough. Maybe Ahmed but given he has never played a test i'm not sure it is.

 

[Braveheart81]

Clarke has just confirmed he will be retiring after the Oval test.

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Probably the right thing. I don't think he's right physically and his batting has looked very tentative in calendar 2015. You can't carry anyone in test cricket, least of all your captain. Smith is ready to make the step up, but I hope he bats at four or five. I don't think he's a test number three.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Looks like the Ashes were over before the Rugby.

Soap Dodgers win by an Innings and 78 runs.

Michael Clark announces he will retire from International Cricket after the 5th Test.

Michael Clarke, Australia's 43rd Test captain and fourth highest Test run-scorer, will retire from international cricket after the fifth Ashes Test at The Oval later this month. Clarke confirmed the news after Australia slumped to an innings-and-78-run defeat to England 40 minutes into the third morning of the fourth Test at Trent Bridge, telling former teammate and close friend Shane Warne that "the time was right".

"As captain of the team my performances have been nowhere near the level and the standard they need to be an Australian cricketer and to be captain," Clarke said. "The boys have worked hard, I don't blame anyone in that change room. As a team we haven't performed as well as we needed to to beat England, and as captain I certainly haven't led from the front."

Clarke told Warne he made the decision to retire in his Nottingham hotel room after the second day's play.

http://www.cricket.com.au/news/mich...rts-australia-england-trent-bridge/2015-08-08.

 

[Quick Hands]

Punter has done a piece for ESPNcricinfo.com in which he says there's 8 of the current Aus squad who won't play Test cricket beyond The Oval. He names four, being Harris (retired already), Rogers (retirement announced), Haddin & Watson. Who are the other four?

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/spo...half-of-australias-squad-20150807-giuix3.html

I agree with him, in fact I think that the selectors have kept most of those guys one series too long.

 

[light]

I agree with him, in fact I think that the selectors have kept most of those guys one series too long.

Haddin and Clarke are the only ones who come to mind. I don't think you can make the argument Rogers played one series too many. As for the rest of the squad, they were world beaters a couple of months ago, were on a 11 match international win streak and didn't look like losing.

England should pay huge credit to Trevor Bayliss. The turn around in the English side is nothing short of remarkable. Root has proven he is the real deal, Broad and Anderson were largely the difference. Stokes and Buttler also really stood up.

Our progress and successes over the last few years have been largely due to the culture and standards Lehmann brought in, I hope he doesn't cop the blame for this.

 

[light]

Big thanks to Pup.

In my book it's disappointing his career has ended this series, as his averaged has now just dropped below 50. Probably wishing now he retired after the world cup but can't blame the bloke for wanting to try regain the Ashes in England. After the way he conducted himself through the Hughes tragedy and his entire career, it was fair to give him the opportunity.

As far as I'm concerned, he's the best player of spin this country has produced in a very, very long time. Where he ranks amongst our great captains I'm not quite sure yet.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Yes, well played Michael and thanks for your considerable contribution to the game in Australia. I don't blame him for wanting to lead the team to a possible Ashes win in the UK, but I think the writing had been on the wall after the Adelaide test last summer. He really struggled to be fit and I'm not convinced his body has been right at any stage of the last year. He's looked like an old man batting out there and rather like Ricky at the end of his career, pretty vulnerable. A shame to see such a great player bow out like this but it so often happens like that in elite sport. He's certainly not the first Australian captain to realise just a touch too late that he's not the player he was.

In any case, this series shouldn't be our memory of him. I prefer to think of that series against the Saffas and especially the innings in Cape town where Morkel was trying to kill him. Seldom have I seen such courageous leadership on the cricket field.

 

[Quick Hands]

Haddin and Clarke are the only ones who come to mind. I don't think you can make the argument Rogers played one series too many. As for the rest of the squad, they were world beaters a couple of months ago, were on a 11 match international win streak and didn't look like losing.

England should pay huge credit to Trevor Bayliss. The turn around in the English side is nothing short of remarkable. Root has proven he is the real deal, Broad and Anderson were largely the difference. Stokes and Buttler also really stood up.

Our progress and successes over the last few years have been largely due to the culture and standards Lehmann brought in, I hope he doesn't cop the blame for this.

No, I'm not talking about Clarke, Haddin or Rogers. And I don't think Lehmann should be the fall guy, it should be the selectors. The squad selected was unbalanced and left few options when on tour.

Put simply their methodology wasn't the usual way that Australian touring squads are selected. They needed to lay a few principles down before naming names. They could only ever have two of Clarke, Watson, S Marsh and Voges in the sqaud. Given that Clarke was the captain, S Marsh has never succeeded when selected, Watson was on the verge of being dropped anyway and they desperately wanted Voges, then the first eleven picked should have been:

Rogers
Warner
Smith
Clarke
Voges
Haddin
M Marsh
Johnston
Harris (subsequently injured and replaced)
Starc
Lyon

Then you need to pick a back-up keeper, second spinner, an additional seamer and 2 or 3 more batsmen (depending on the size of the squad). This is where the selectors failed miserably:

Nevill as back-up keeper was good
Not sure about Ahmed as second spinner but I can live with it
Why pick Siddle at this stage in his career if he isn't likely to play a test? (if he wasn't picked on that greentop at Nottingham, he's never going to be picked) Pick a younger seamer and get him used to playing in English conditions
Same with the batsmen, 2 of Burns, Lynn and Kwharga (probably the first 2) should have been in the squad - even if they didn't play a test they are in and around the team, they are playing and practicing in English conditions and if you get to a dead rubber in a losing series, you can play one or both of them.

 

[light]

We've got some tough decisions to make for the next test. Would like to see this XI

Rogers
Warner
Smith
Voges/S.Marsh
Clarke (C)
Watson
Haddin
Johnson
Siddle
Starc
Lyon/Ahmed

It isn't our best possible starting side but giving our custodians a fitting farewell and the chance to bow out on a high is probably the right thing to do.

 

[No4918]

We've got some tough decisions to make for the next test. Would like to see this XI

Rogers
Warner
Smith
Voges/S.Marsh
Clarke (C)
Watson
Haddin
Johnson
Siddle
Starc
Lyon/Ahmed

It isn't our best possible starting side but giving our custodians a fitting farewell and the chance to bow out on a high is probably the right thing to do.

Sure you aren't just trying to give QH a heart attack?

Only change I would make is Marsh for Marsh. No point going backwards.

 

[Quick Hands]

Doesn't really matter who they pick for the last match as there aren't any young blokes to blood in a dead rubber.

EDIT: Although I agree that we shouldn't be going back to players who have already been moved out of the side.

 

[light]

In any case, this series shouldn't be our memory of him. I prefer to think of that series against the Saffas and especially the innings in Cape town where Morkel was trying to kill him. Seldom have I seen such courageous leadership on the cricket field.

That goes down as one of the greatest knocks I've ever seen.

That innings plus his debut are the two performances that I will remember Clarke by.

 

[Quick Hands]

Clarke has been a class act since he debuted for Australia. A pit he couldn't go out on a winning note, but the fact that he was able to leave with grace and dignity in such circumstances says a lot.

 

[Quick Hands]

I hate to say I told you so but............................

AUSTRALIAN coach Darren Lehmann admits he and Rod Marsh have failed in their duties as selectors

Australia invested too heavily and too far down the track on ageing players, and now as many as nine of the current squad may never play Test cricket again.
Lehmann says in hindsight it was a questionable plan that painted selectors into a corner on certain issues and contributed to a series of misjudgements they made during the Ashes.

For example taking veterans Shane Watson and Brad Haddin on an Ashes tour, yet dumping them after just one match.
What he did say was that dropping all-rounder Mitchell Marsh for a specialist batsman Shaun was a bad call for the fourth Test.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...gs-wrong-on-tour/story-fni2fnmo-1227476430552

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I also read in the News Ltd (online) papers this morning that there was trouble at mill too with respect to Clarke's relationship with the board, coach and other players. Added to this the WAGS didn't got along either apparently (I think families should not be travelling with the team, BTW)! So the seeds of our demise could well have been sown well before the series started.