Fiji into Super Rugby?

[Tip]

How do we go about fitting Fiji into Soop Rugby?

Simple, NZ need to wake up and smell the roses. Playing South African teams isn't quite what it used to be, especially with most of their best plying their trade in Europe.

Bugger the Africanz. The Pacific is where the moneys at.

Did you know that the NRL is worth more in broadcasting rights than Aviva & TOP 14 (div1&2) put together? (Aviva, ~$70mil a season, Top 14, ~$110mil)

NRL: 1.8 billion over 5 years = $360mil a year

Yet we still yearn for the Euro dollar to save our collected asses every 4 years.

Bugger South Africa, create a rep-season for playoffs between the best of Pacifica, Africa & America.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

How do we go about fitting Fiji into Soop Rugby?

Simple, NZ need to wake up and smell the roses. Playing South African teams isn't quite what it used to be, especially with most of their best plying their trade in Europe.

Bugger the Africanz. The Pacific is where the moneys at.

Did you know that the NRL is worth more in broadcasting rights than Aviva & TOP 14 (div1&2) put together? (Aviva, ~$70mil a season, Top 14, ~$110mil)

NRL: 1.8 billion over 5 years = $360mil a year

Yet we still yearn for the Euro dollar to save our collected asses every 4 years.

Bugger South Africa, create a rep-season for playoffs between the best of Pacifica, Africa & America.

Okay, tinfoil hat time. I think the NZRU are well aware of the potential of a competition that could gain traction in our market between both us and them. Of the three we have the most growth potential and well frankly, money.

And that is why they cling to SA. Because they have a fear that if they went down the TT path and Rugby does gain traction then we will run roughshot over them because we would potentially bring the most money.

 

[Twoilms]

Tinfoil hat or no, there is little doubt we get the least benefit out of the current arrangement.

 

[half]

In the current set up this is such a bad idea.

Until 2014 and from 2009, I went to Fiji to work four times a year for between two and three weeks a time.

What I can tell you it is a very poor country, with the Indian half liking soccer and the Islander half liking Rugby.

The Indians have most of the money.

In total they have a population of under 900K.

Fiji will not bring major sponsors or TV money the likely outcome is they will need to be supported.

In the name of the holy mother who is running the joint. What bring in a team that has no particular interest to the broader Australian sporting public and that team needing support from day one.

I have stayed away and not commented on this topic for some time. But we need to just get out of SANDZZAR and do it our selves.

Rant over I am holding it in but FFS a very poor broke nation that will need support from day one and its being talked about as somehow a great idea. I take some of blues pills to clam me down.

BTW I love Fiji and its people, but common sense please.

 

[Tip]

BTW I love Fiji and its people, but common sense please.

Yeah, how about a little common sense. I'd love to see some...

Common sense dictates that you read an article before discussing the contents. You haven't read the article nor the first post of this thread, which is abundantly clear when you spew bile like:

Fiji will not bring major sponsors or TV money the likely outcome is they will need to be supported.

They have $30mil AUD worth of sponsors willing and waiting. This, like the Fiji NRC team will not cost anyone in Australia a single dollar, (unless you want to buy a ticket to one of their games in Suva at their brand-spanking new 20k seater stadium which you didn't read about)

But nah, you're right. Let's forgo the opportunity for Fiji to have a professional rugby team and instead continue the status quo of France, England, Aus & NZ pillaging Fiji for the benefit of their national team.

 

[TOCC]

Yeah, how about a little common sense. I'd love to see some.

Common sense dictates that you read an article before discussing the contents. You haven't read the article nor the first post of this thread, which is abundantly clear when you spew bile like:


They have $30mil AUD worth of sponsors willing and waiting. This, like the Fiji NRC team will not cost anyone in Australia a single dollar, (unless you want to buy a ticket to one of their games in Suva at their brand-spanking new 20k seater stadium which you didn't read about)

But nah, you're right. Let's forgo the opportunity for Fiji to have a professional rugby team and instead continue the status quo of France, England, Aus & NZ pillaging Fiji for the benefit of their national team.

Charming....

Common sense says that if there were $30million ready to pour into Fijian Rugby then there would already be some form of semi-professional domestic rugby competition, common sense says that a single news article with no credible sources on the financials should be considered pragmatically.

This is the same discussion as that of PNG and an NRL team, they are rugby league mad but economically the cost of hosing a competitive NRL team would be difficult.

 

[Dan54]

Charming..

Common sense says that if there were $30million ready to pour into Fijian Rugby then there would already be some form of semi-professional domestic rugby competition, common sense says that a single news article with no credible sources should be considered pragmatically.

This is the same discussion as that of PNG and an NRL team, they are rugby league mad but economically the cost of hosing a competitive NRL team would be difficult.

Mate the whole thing about this thread is based on what Ryan has said, so if he is lying then it won't work, I tend to hope maybe there is a bit of money, and I also pretty sure it would be only for a super team so they can get something back off it. Anyone putting money in will be doing it to get exposure from the TV audience they see a Fijian team getting , and I would doubt they would put it into domestic comp! So there not really $30 mill ready to pour into Fijian rugby, but into a Fijian super team perhaps.

 

[dru]

Even if the source is correct, an upfront cash availability of $30M wil not provide the funds necessary for a professional rugby team in perpetuity.

Cash flow must come at some point and clearly would be limited from the local economy.

If its to come from broadcast rights there would be implications across Super Rugby. Is the ARU willing to see a reduction in income rights? SARU?

Its a good start and promising if true. But there are many missing pieces.

 

[TOCC]

I doubt there is a single person on this forum who doesn't want to see Fiji get a professional rugby team in some form, but you can't blame those who are naturally dubious of the claims that Fiji has the corporate support to host the richest club side in the world..

 

[barbarian]

I don't care too much about the financials. The competition is a dog's breakfast as it is, and the last thing we need is more teams regardless of where they are based.

Yes if we decide to flick SA, Argentina and Japan off then it's something to consider. But until then, no.
.

 

[Twoilms]

I don't care too much about the financials. The competition is a dog's breakfast as it is, and the last thing we need is more teams regardless of where they are based.

Yes if we decide to flick SA, Argentina and Japan off then it's something to consider. But until then, no.
.

I don't think you reject the idea of Fiji based on the current structure, because with or without Fiji the current structure is fucked sideways and will change. If Fiji are already in the frame when the change comes they can be accomodated effectively.

 

[liquor box]

I think the idea of Fiji having a team is good but wonder at this part of the article.

"Currently, if you are a young Fijian who wants to play rugby professionally as a career, you can't stay in Fiji," he said. "There are 165 Fijians playing in France alone. It is ridiculous. World Rugby are looking to change the residency law from three to five years, but I don't think that will work because players will just go younger. For me, it comes back to giving us an opportunity on the island with a franchise. Super Rugby could own a part of it and it would keep everyone on the island and we could build academies, which would generate a pathway for players and coaches.

Why will having a Super Rugby team stop France from offering millions for players?


I would put Fiji in the Australian conference as I think we need publicity for the game her and everyone knows the Fiji brand of rugby.

I would put Japan in the NZ conference because I believe the NZ rugby brand would assist the game in Japan more than the Australian teams.

I wonder if we could have a 15 round competition with the Aus and NZ conferences. Play all of your own teams twice home and away and then once against all the other conference in a home one year away the next format.

My poor maths would make this a 16 round season.

If SA/ARG want to take part then we can have a finals series that has winners from SA and ARG conferences play against us.

My biggest concern is that we may be seen to abandon Argentina if we dont play them regularly.

My season would allow for prime time Friday night games from NZ and East Coast Australia. Super Saturday with game after game if you start in Fiji and work your way west to Perth.

 

[Brumby Runner]

My biggest concern is that we may be seen to abandon Argentina if we dont play them regularly.

But we'd still play them in the RC home and away except in RWC years, so I think they'd still have ample opportunity to learn and develop at the national level.

 

[Lindommer]

I don't care too much about the financials. The competition is a dog's breakfast as it is, and the last thing we need is more teams regardless of where they are based. Yes if we decide to flick SA, Argentina and Japan off then it's something to consider. But until then, no.

This. The current Super Rugby competition IS a dog's breakfast. Most of the fanciful ideas floating around here and elsewhere have teams in North America, Singapore and other parts of east Asia (why stop there?, put a team in Mongolia, or Antarctica). These "invented " teams will require a solid group of transplanted players to be competitive, a la the Sunwolves. Do we want rugby to look like that? Every team becomes a Toulon with the size of the owner's cheque book the only criteria for success.

A few things:

• If we're going to genuinely include Argentina in SANZAAR (I firmly think we should) there should be at least two teams in South America. I've floated the concept of a joint Argentinean/Uruguayan team based in Montevideo, but that's for them to decide. The development of full-blown professional franchises in South America should be at the top of their agenda.
• The involvement of our Saffer cousins will continue to bedevil us. I really do feel for them with their political and social problems, but it's not up to us to solve them. The political interference in an external sporting competition is unacceptable. If the Southern Kings can't compete on either the sporting field or financially but survive due to the SAf government's insistence, well, that's a bridge too far. Maybe the SARU could cobble together a larger South Atlantic grouping with Argentina.
• The 6/5/4 matches against our own/Kiwis/a Saffer group is bewildering, and inequitable. As is placing the Sunwolves in a Saffer group and not playing all their home games in Japan. I can understand the attraction of adding a Japanese side (same time zone as Aus/NZ, extra TV money), but the lack of support from the corporate Japanese teams together with the attendant travel make their future involvement problematical for me.
• IF South Africa ever splits from the Australasian grouping, a future Super Rugby competition in our part of the world COULD look at accommodating a well-resourced Fijian team. The new sponsors would have to have very deep pockets, adding Fiji to a TV deal wouldn't bring much to the table.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I think the idea of Fiji having a team is good but wonder at this part of the article.

Why will having a Super Rugby team stop France from offering millions for players?


I would put Fiji in the Australian conference as I think we need publicity for the game her and everyone knows the Fiji brand of rugby.

I would put Japan in the NZ conference because I believe the NZ rugby brand would assist the game in Japan more than the Australian teams.

I wonder if we could have a 15 round competition with the Aus and NZ conferences. Play all of your own teams twice home and away and then once against all the other conference in a home one year away the next format.

My poor maths would make this a 16 round season.

If SA/ARG want to take part then we can have a finals series that has winners from SA and ARG conferences play against us.

My biggest concern is that we may be seen to abandon Argentina if we dont play them regularly.

My season would allow for prime time Friday night games from NZ and East Coast Australia. Super Saturday with game after game if you start in Fiji and work your way west to Perth.

Well, there is a solution for SA/Arg but it will of course come down to money. And that is the essentially a pre-existing Argentine conference already in place. The Compenato Argentino.

If financing could be found then we could split Super Rugby in two and run two separate comps or 'divisons' independent of one another for 15 rounds each then a 6 team finals series to crown individual champions before we have a one off 'Championship' game against the winner of the other 'division'.

 

[Tip]

Charming..

Common sense says that if there were $30million ready to pour into Fijian Rugby then there would already be some form of semi-professional domestic rugby competition, common sense says that a single news article with no credible sources on the financials should be considered pragmatically.

No one in their right mind is suggesting Fiji can host a professional competition by themselves, however there is obviously interest in the team from an international perspective. The $30mil of investment and sponsorship is on the proviso that they play in Super Rugby. You obviously read the article, so why are you intentionally being obtuse?

This is the same discussion as that of PNG and an NRL team, they are rugby league mad but economically the cost of hosing a competitive NRL team would be difficult.

This is also completely different from PNG Rugby League.
- Is PNG a rugby "Brand"?
- Did PNG just win an Olympic gold medal in Rugby? (= global recognition)
- Does PNG have a long, lustrous legacy in the Sport?
The answer to each of these questions is no. To compare the two is completey disingenuous.

Even if the source is correct, an upfront cash availability of $30M wil not provide the funds necessary for a professional rugby team in perpetuity.

Cash flow must come at some point and clearly would be limited from the local economy.

If its to come from broadcast rights there would be implications across Super Rugby. Is the ARU willing to see a reduction in income rights? SARU?

Its a good start and promising if true. But there are many missing pieces.

If Fiji is included, I daresay they'd be obliged the 1/18th - 1/20th of the broadcast revenue. Which equates to around 10-13mil AUD a year (which can go a long way in Suva)

 

[dru]

Tip, does it work that way? I may be wrong but I thought the funds were delivered on the basis of your home earnings. Much like the current scenario in Europe where we earn nothing for playing during the international window (costs I believe). Vice verca England earn squat when playing us in the mid year tests.

Happy to be corrected.

 

[Tip]

Although I'm not 100% sure of current allocation of moneys, I do know that during Super XV, Australia, NZ & SA split the broadcast revenues 1/3 each.

I can't imagine things have changed too much since then.

 

[dru]

Although I'm not 100% sure of current allocation of moneys, I do know that during Super XV, Australia, NZ & SA split the broadcast revenues 1/3 each.

I can't imagine things have changed too much since then.

I think they have. Didnt SARU crack a trantrum over generating most of the income and demanding that they held it? Dirty on JON for ripping them off. Apparently changed the categorisation to put much more of the income down to CC. Something like that anyway.

 

[Tip]

NFI, TBH.

I thought SA got more revenue due to the extra team, and the value of the Currie Cup (which may or may not have been included in negotiations)

13 minutes is enough research for one day!