Goosestep
Jim Clark (26)
It literally destroyed the game in Australia … it was a joke to anyone outside the echo chamber
Having no NRC is better how?
- Thread starter MungoMan
- Start date
Joe King
Dave Cowper (27)
“Destroyed” is probably too strong a word. ‘Divided’, maybe, but whether the NRC was a good thing depends on how you measure it. Do you measure it by its appeal to the spectator, or by how well it develops players to benefit Super Rugby and the Wallabies? In other words do you measure it by the BBL or the Sheffield Shield?
At the schoolboy level, there is really no difference between Australia and NZ. It’s always been a tight battle. At under 20 level you start to see a difference, with NZ moving ahead — though things have been changing in the Australian system and I think we’re moving in a good direction there. However, from u20 onwards a clear difference emerges. NZ players and teams suddenly have better skills and way more depth. Why? Answer: NPC. It is the one clear difference between their system and ours.
However, a good third tier is not as simple as implementing a new competition. The NPC teams are NZs traditional teams and are an established part of the player pathway. They have access to players and can influence them, and are personally involved in a player’s training and development at the grass roots level outside of the actual NPC competition.
While as a step between club and Super, the NRC would have a positive impact, it would take more than a few years for new NRC teams to have the kind of affect on the Australian system that the NPC teams do in NZ.
I don’t know, from my observation it just looks like things are gearing towards the Oz Super Rugby teams themselves playing the role of the NPC teams at the third tier level, probably because they are the only teams that can in the short term. Whether it’s a short comp (minus test players) in line with the new u16 and u19 comps, or mini tours to Japan and NZ, or inviting/hosting o/s teams like the Force will do at the end of 2023, I think we’ll see the Super Rugby teams try and keep their players playing more games together post SRP (Super Rugby Pacific), whilst setting themselves up to be real rep teams for aspiring club players.
This has always been the natural set up in Australia and I just think we’ll end up going with the flow rather than cutting across the grain.
At the schoolboy level, there is really no difference between Australia and NZ. It’s always been a tight battle. At under 20 level you start to see a difference, with NZ moving ahead — though things have been changing in the Australian system and I think we’re moving in a good direction there. However, from u20 onwards a clear difference emerges. NZ players and teams suddenly have better skills and way more depth. Why? Answer: NPC. It is the one clear difference between their system and ours.
However, a good third tier is not as simple as implementing a new competition. The NPC teams are NZs traditional teams and are an established part of the player pathway. They have access to players and can influence them, and are personally involved in a player’s training and development at the grass roots level outside of the actual NPC competition.
While as a step between club and Super, the NRC would have a positive impact, it would take more than a few years for new NRC teams to have the kind of affect on the Australian system that the NPC teams do in NZ.
I don’t know, from my observation it just looks like things are gearing towards the Oz Super Rugby teams themselves playing the role of the NPC teams at the third tier level, probably because they are the only teams that can in the short term. Whether it’s a short comp (minus test players) in line with the new u16 and u19 comps, or mini tours to Japan and NZ, or inviting/hosting o/s teams like the Force will do at the end of 2023, I think we’ll see the Super Rugby teams try and keep their players playing more games together post SRP (Super Rugby Pacific), whilst setting themselves up to be real rep teams for aspiring club players.
This has always been the natural set up in Australia and I just think we’ll end up going with the flow rather than cutting across the grain.
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Slim 293
George Smith (75)
It literally destroyed the game in Australia?
So, the game of Rugby Union no longer exists in this country?
Damn, and that whole time the plan was just to destroy Sydney club rugby…
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
How exactly Did it destroy the game here?
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
Clearly they've bought into the BS about there being thousands upon thousands of fans turning out for Shute Shield games based off literally two Grand Finals that have been constantly rehashed by some of the dinosaurs still trundling out in the media with their rose tinted glasses on. Because anyone who's been paying attention can tell you a very different story.
We need the NRC is whatever form it takes to return. Ideally I'd go with the 5 franchises (sans Wallabies potentially using city names) plus a select side featuring the best non-contracted prospects from the respective club competitions. Invite the Drua and look to find an 8th. Play it over sevens rounds plus finals. Crucially run the season in the October/November/December window. Market the shit out of it.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
So I note that my question has gone unanswered
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
Doesn't need answering.
Qldtragic
Ted Fahey (11)
How about this idea to bridge the gap between club and state levels.
An NPC type comp between Oct/Nov/Dec ?
top 3 clubs from QPR
top 3 clubs from Shute Shield
top club from Melbourne
top club from Canberra
top club from Perth
one team of Aust u20 or barbarians/ invitational.
10 teams equates to 9 rounds. No FINALS just top of table winner.
Semi professional payments such as each player receives $250 per game they are named in the 23 for the team. ( = $172500)
Clubs receive a lump sum of $10000 for coaches / costs etc (=$100000)
Other costs is flights / accom/ etc (????)
Guessing a $800 000 spend by RA. (take $20k per contracted wallaby to redirect)
Means we now have a self levelling promotion / relegation system each year. Player will have to work hard all year to get to the top of their local comps so they get exposure at the next level.
Will put some "no names" out on a bigger pedestal and potentially find more "diamonds" ie Charlie Gamble's.
Just out there for some food for thought cause we really need a level between Clubland and Super Rugby.
An NPC type comp between Oct/Nov/Dec ?
top 3 clubs from QPR
top 3 clubs from Shute Shield
top club from Melbourne
top club from Canberra
top club from Perth
one team of Aust u20 or barbarians/ invitational.
10 teams equates to 9 rounds. No FINALS just top of table winner.
Semi professional payments such as each player receives $250 per game they are named in the 23 for the team. ( = $172500)
Clubs receive a lump sum of $10000 for coaches / costs etc (=$100000)
Other costs is flights / accom/ etc (????)
Guessing a $800 000 spend by RA. (take $20k per contracted wallaby to redirect)
Means we now have a self levelling promotion / relegation system each year. Player will have to work hard all year to get to the top of their local comps so they get exposure at the next level.
Will put some "no names" out on a bigger pedestal and potentially find more "diamonds" ie Charlie Gamble's.
Just out there for some food for thought cause we really need a level between Clubland and Super Rugby.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
Restricting a comp to only the top sides in the respective club competitions always invites the question - what happens to the players in the other (perhaps) 30 - 40 clubs that miss out? Until that can be solved, I personally don't think it is a goer.
Qldtragic
Ted Fahey (11)
Makes them work harder to be the top next year
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
Or. Top 3 from Brisbane and Shute Shield plus a rep squad made up of the best players from the teams that don't qualify. Plus a rep squad from each of Melbourne, Canberra and Perth. 11 teams for 10 games and finals. Hybrid model.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
Better but I fear the Canberra Vikings (as distinct from the Tuggeranong Vikings) would just be too strong.
Rebel man
John Thornett (49)
Melbourne’s team would get smoked. The standard has dropped after covid.
I don’t think no NRC hurts Queensland or NSW but it hurt’s Melbourne as the gap between Dewar and pro rugby is massive
let's make it clear - its a national club comp but it aint no third tier. Top three QPR teams based on last year would be Wests, UQ and Brothers.
That means QLD Squad members, and non Wallabies, such as George Blake, Richie Aisata, Zane Nonggorr, Angus Blyth, Liam Wright, Spencer Jeans, Taj Anan etc would not get anymore rugby.
So it doesn't 'bridge the gap' at all. Doesn't raise the standard of the game a bit.
Qldtragic
Ted Fahey (11)
4 of those palyers are from Bond. Why werent they in the top 3 ?
My suggestion was for multiple reasons, including the NRC concept doesnt seem to have the strong support it needs from some sectors.
1. give opportunity for us to see other players than the closed group of the wider reds (super R) squads. those players are getting plenty of exposure to higher training and development opportunities.
2. gives stan a product to screen other than NZ NPC at that time of year. some aussies might associate with the teams a little more closely as spectators
3. gives the clubs involved opportunity to present their sponsors on a different level (possibly attract more or obtain additional $$ for grass roots)
4 Potentially solve (or add fuel) the old age question of bragging rights on who has the best competition ie sydney v Bris v canb v melb v perth
5 encourages the club scene to drive excellence and improve professionalisms.
just chucked it out there as a discussion point / idea starter. gives the "negative nancy's" and lost sheep something else to sh%t can as well.
Qldtragic
Ted Fahey (11)
as long as the rep team wasnt loaded with super rugby players
i suggested this so the next layer down could get some exposure and development.
Rebel man
John Thornett (49)
I don’t mind the idea it’s just the logistics of it all. For example I can’t see the Rebels putting their players in the local comp so the Melbourne team will be incredibly weak compared to Queensland and NSW counterparts.
Qldtragic
Ted Fahey (11)
that was one of the hidden objectives. to get the melbourne (Dewar Cup) some support with higher class players and potentially more local interest - supporters.
I keep hearing that Rugby needs to expand its wings.
In my mind we need to have more high quality vehicles for all the talented players to fit into instead of pissing off overseas.
Brisbane and Sydney schools alone release thousands of potential players each year but we lose many of them because of too few of places for them to land.
Because the top two teams were Wests and UQ who played in the final, and UQ beat Brothers in the Prelim Final, so Brothers are the third team.
All your points are valid, but it is only a expanded club comp. It is not a higher level of competition. Good content for Stan? Absolutely. A chance for lessor known players to get some profile? Probably. A solution to bragging rights? Who cares. A legitimate 3rd tier between club and Super Rugby with enhanced player development outcomes. No way.
Unfortunately if people disagree with you in real life, they are not just being a negative nancy. Often they are just being pragmatic, accurate or even correct on occasions.
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
Easy fix. Run two squads out of Canberra for 12 teans and 11 games. Vikings and the Kookaburras. That should break things up a little bit.Better but I fear the Canberra Vikings (as distinct from the Tuggeranong Vikings) would just be too strong.