Homophobic remark in Tahs Brumbies game
- Thread starter Dumbledore
- Start date
- Status
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
And that's the problem with "discussion" on this site: if you think Pocock is a grandstander (and that Moore is similarly moral and ethical but is not a grandstander) then you are taken to endorse homophobia.
Scoey
Tony Shaw (54)
Huh? This is my point. You're seeing things that aren't there.
I'm simply saying that your continued criticism of Pocock is rubbish. Moore has nothing to do with it. I don't expect you or anyone else to give praise and adulation to either him or Pocock for that matter.
You can not show adulation for Pocock over this; that is fine. But to criticise him in the manner that you are just makes you look foolish. Your own personal opinion of him and his views are seriously distorting your ability to look at this issue objectively.
Hey, if we want to play the "basic social justice card" that should include the right to free speech as well, I have always like how different basic social justice issues don't fit evenly together.
Ones "right" not to be insulted limits an others right to free speech
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Godfrey
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Edit: to IS. No, it's more nuanced than that. I don't know your feelings on homophobia, just that your focus is on shooting the messenger and trying every angle to attack Pocock's credibility. It actually isn't about him at all, I think most here would act the same if it was any other player. With all due respect, I'm glad people will draw attention to really serious issues even if it means flak from people like you.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Godfrey
Phil Hardcastle (33)
That was not in response to you. I have edited.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
I think you are missing the point.
Both players made a stand.
Pocock lost me,when he made a statement after the game moralising the issue,but claimed he didn't know who the culprit was.
I am of the view that he should have either called out the culprit,or given a no comment.
This won't be popular,but it's analogous with his protest earlier this year.
A lot of huffing and puffing,but little substance.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
If I was a Homosexual and someone called me a "faggot" I would be horrified and take it to heart. Some Brums boys (not Poey - who didn't hear it) were offended. To what level I don't know.
Does anyone know to whom the comment was made ?
Being a Hetro and if someone called me that, then I would only be really pissed off, realising it was an off the cuff sledge.[/quote]
Godfrey
Phil Hardcastle (33)
I get what you are saying and think that in general a contest of ideas is far superior to banning ideas. But this comment was made in the course of his employment and it went against the terms of such. There are many similar things in rugby that don't take pure free speech into account - being fined for criticising refs for example.
I want to clarify again that this isn't about being PC or not insulting/offending individuals. As I've said before, gay people in this country are six times more likely to commit suicide. Anything that contributes to that culture needs to be stopped, especially if the cost is having to just use a different word that starts with "F" when you're insulting someone.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
I would recommend Wayne Smith's article in the OZ about the issue today to everyone. I think he's summarised the issue fairly well.
Wendell&Lote
Frank Row (1)
HAHAHA you guys have got to read this rip on Pocock and the ARU
http://www.betootaadvocate.com/head...ing-stable-to-house-star-players-high-horses/
http://www.betootaadvocate.com/head...ing-stable-to-house-star-players-high-horses/
boyo
Mark Ella (57)
The problem with that rule is that it covers all my abilities as a rugby player, especially everytime I packed a scrum or stomped on a hand
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Well, that was a poor attempt at cleverness.........
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
couldabeen
Alfred Walker (16)
Slow down Braveheart. You assume too much. You don't know me. If you did you would know by my speech and action that I rigorously believe that calling someone a faggot is never justified - ever.
I am not clutching at the straw you suggest nor running that argument and I don’t watch South Park so I don’t get the reference.
It is raining here today - 40 millimetres in the AM, so no work to be done outside. Indulge my thinking on this.
My concern is how our society functions in achieving Moral outcomes. I am uncomfortable with the way this has panned out with regard to process and punishment.
I seriously want to know - was he targeting a gay man? (Either way he is in the wrong and I am glad he has apologized, but he is wrong in one way or the other, to say both are the same thing is moral equivalence)
If he was using the abhorrent slur as a way of goading the opposition that is not ipso facto proof that he is Homophobic. Stupid, insensitive, demeaning to Homosexuals yes. Yes. But the morality of an individual act has as much to do with the will or intention of that act as the consequence. Morally self-conscious beings are entirely able to choose to act for the good, but their motivations for doing so can be myriad.
Avoiding punishment or humiliation are motivations for acting in a way that achieves the good. But are these transformative or really good in themselves? I don’t think so and neither do a multitude of Ethicists and Philosophers. Kant argued that it was not the consequences of actions that make them right or wrong but the motives of the person who carries out the action.
Legislating the Good is clumsy and often ineffectual. It depends on the rule of force. So in this case you have a heavy fine and public shaming. But the show trial nature of the events, along with adulation for the good guy and pursuit of the bad guy makes me uncomfortable. I believe our society needs to operate in a way that seeks to influence the motivation of individuals in choosing their actions. I also believe this is best done through non coercive engagement with issues and individuals.
In this case – talk to the man first over a coffee. Far more effective in changing the nature of society.
Your thoughts are welcome but I am going back to the Shute Shield and Sydney Colts thread to talk about Rugby. Social Ethics remind me of late night cramming.
Best wishes
- Status