Hurricanes vs Waratahs Saturday 6th April
- Thread starter qwerty51
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CTPE
Nev Cottrell (35)
3 wins from 7 games and only 1 bonus point in those seven contests is a pretty ordinary start to the season and two of those wins were against the Force and the Rebels. In fact the 3 wins have all been with home ground advantage and only by margins of 5 points, 3 points and 4 points respectively. Whilst I too like the way the Tahs are playing I expected more than they delivered to date and find that the "work in progress" excuse is starting to wear a bit thin.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
They did lose the last 8 games last year.
There has been f all turnover of players since last year.
No one can make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
Let him sign some players he wants,and sacks some players he doesn't want before passing judgement.
In any event, I much prefer watching them lose this year than I did last year.
You forget that were unlikely to even score a try in the Captains run in the last month of 2012.
There has been f all turnover of players since last year.
No one can make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
Let him sign some players he wants,and sacks some players he doesn't want before passing judgement.
In any event, I much prefer watching them lose this year than I did last year.
You forget that were unlikely to even score a try in the Captains run in the last month of 2012.
M
Moono75
Guest
We learnt Foley has crazy legs and can change direction on the face of a 20 cent piece. Thats a good thing. Looked dangerous all night.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Quick Hands there is a difference between what the Tahs are doing and positive rugby.
Sure what they are doing looks positive but it is really just relying on the semi-miraculous at the end of some half hearted "probing" of the defence. The go to option is of the hail mary variety.
Positive rugby, the way it should be played, really involves having faith in the players around you and building opportunities rather than snatching at them.
I think last night just felt better because it was a good game to watch.
In order to develop the faith you need to acquire the right players or the present mob need to get with the program: I think most of the current squad are not capable of the basic skills necessary to have faith that the result will flow from patient execution of fundamental skills and patterns.
As I've said, more than once, Cheika is not going to have the luxury of just signing 5 or 6 players who subscribe to his theories and have these skills: that number will not be available to sign. Plus he has a salary cap.
@Iliketowatch - where does Phipps fit into this plan???? did you see his game last night? His signing, and the lack of Tahs progress suggest that the magic spell has not been found.
Have the tahs really only won 1 from their last 15 games?
Who is going to be jettisoned so that Foley/Hickey are no longer to blame for these shortcomings?
Can someone explain why it is not part of an Australian rugby players DNA to question the wisdom of kicking to NZ back 3's? If there has been a greater crop of counter attackers in any country I've never seen or heard about it.
We're better off defending a line out than kicking to them most of the time.
Hooper had his best game for the Tahs last night.
Sure what they are doing looks positive but it is really just relying on the semi-miraculous at the end of some half hearted "probing" of the defence. The go to option is of the hail mary variety.
Positive rugby, the way it should be played, really involves having faith in the players around you and building opportunities rather than snatching at them.
I think last night just felt better because it was a good game to watch.
In order to develop the faith you need to acquire the right players or the present mob need to get with the program: I think most of the current squad are not capable of the basic skills necessary to have faith that the result will flow from patient execution of fundamental skills and patterns.
As I've said, more than once, Cheika is not going to have the luxury of just signing 5 or 6 players who subscribe to his theories and have these skills: that number will not be available to sign. Plus he has a salary cap.
@Iliketowatch - where does Phipps fit into this plan???? did you see his game last night? His signing, and the lack of Tahs progress suggest that the magic spell has not been found.
Have the tahs really only won 1 from their last 15 games?
Who is going to be jettisoned so that Foley/Hickey are no longer to blame for these shortcomings?
Can someone explain why it is not part of an Australian rugby players DNA to question the wisdom of kicking to NZ back 3's? If there has been a greater crop of counter attackers in any country I've never seen or heard about it.
We're better off defending a line out than kicking to them most of the time.
Hooper had his best game for the Tahs last night.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Law 15.7 (c)
Well, they kept at it, they continued to play some nice rugby so OK
BUT, is Gibson the defensive coach?
Lift your game lad, getting caught with a kick through after a turnover is acceptable once, but 20 times?
Where was/who was the units getting this under control, usually the 9 is the sweeper and where was Folau, the unit can run like the wind in attack, 15s should be at least getting hurt stoppng this shit.
BUT, is Gibson the defensive coach?
Lift your game lad, getting caught with a kick through after a turnover is acceptable once, but 20 times?
Where was/who was the units getting this under control, usually the 9 is the sweeper and where was Folau, the unit can run like the wind in attack, 15s should be at least getting hurt stoppng this shit.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
But they started from rock bottom, with a new coach and a playing roster that lacks depth in key positions, so unfortunately a 'work in progress' is all we're going to get this year.
Last year we had a dispirited rabble, this year we have a coherent rugby team who make mistakes (too many I agree). At this level, teams have to capitalise on all opportunities to score. At the moment we aren't and this is the difference between a close win and a close loss.
Last night we saw Foley make 2 clean breaks and kick the ball straight to a Hurricances player. What should have been Waratahs with momentum in the opposition 22, with the defence disorganised, ended up with the Waratahs back in their own 22 defending a lineout. Hooper made a clean break around the same time, dummied to a support player, went into contact and then threw the pass 3 steps too late and the pass went to ground. Both young players in their first year as first choice starting players and we hope that they learn from the experience.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
I agree with some of your thoughts (highlighted in bold). I'd like to think that the younger players such as Hooper and Foley are learning by experience the merits of patience and taking all opportunities at this level. Both had great games last night, but also both took a couple of poor options, which can I think/hope be put down to inexperience. (see previous post)
Phipps - can't explain it on any level so I'm not going to try. Phipps and McKibben are both Shute Shield level, so I'm at a complete loss there. We've seen Lucas have significant game time twice this season and the whole tempo and structure of the Waratahs game changed for the better.
Why the current crop of backs feel the need to chip kick ahead at every opportunity also mystifies me. Last night was another illustration of what a poor option it is in 99% of circumstances. (see previous post)
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
I understand that you are saying that the Tahs are having a dip, but not in a structured way?
I am willing to give Cheika the benefit of the doubt for some time yet. They have won 3 games this year,compared to 4 wins all season in 2012.We tend to forget how poor not just the results,but the style of the play of the Tahs last year.They lost so many games without firing a shot.
I am totally with you regarding Phipps, WTF is Cheika thinking?
Ditto with the kicking, if you can't kick it into the third row,don't do it.Their counter invariably hurts the kicking side.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Agree - but there's something about him I'm not sold on and i cant really put my finger on what it is. he certainly better yesterday than the previous week.
I think that is what I am saying - I also think i am more conservative than most of you blokes
Dan54
Tim Horan (67)
Ok IS, I not going to bother checking law 15.7, and will say fair enough you were right, especially as it Sunday morning and I have probably well recovered from the few ales I indulged in at rugby club yesterday on opening day
.And on the Tahs , I suspect if Cheika can sign 3 players that have required skills, Tahs could be a force next year, but maybe only because I can't belive they haven't been better than they are with the recourses they have at their disposal.I do admit I also got no idea what money he has to spend ,so that could make difference.
I would also add that happily I think if the Canes can sneak a couple of good locks into camp over next couple of years, I would think they are going to be very very good in 2014-15 as they are playing with a very young side, good young props in early 20s, loosies that that are 19, 21 and 26. Likewise in backline , where apart from Conrad they mainly in young 20s.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
any 3 kiwis would do
Dan54
Tim Horan (67)
Hey so long as you not after the Savea brothers, and on that I am wondering how old their parents are ,and if there any chance of maybe producing a couple of more boys, I mean the Whitelocks have got 4 boys playing in a super 15 team, and I think this is the least we can expect from the Saveas.
Scott Allen
Trevor Allan (34)
It was a really entertaining match to watch and no doubt the Tahs had a good crack. It was a bit like a big sevens game - end to end action.
I like what the Tahs are trying to do but I think that if they don't make some changes to the game plan, we'll all continue to be entertained but the Tahs will keep getting the same result.
If the Tahs want to keep ball in hand and run it from every part of the park they need to sort out the breakdown - they just start to build momentum with their attack and you can see holes opening up in the defence when they either get turned over at the breakdown or the ball is slowed by the opposition which means the Tahs have to restart their attack. This same thing is happening week after week.
Cheika is quoted at the press conference last night saying ''You've almost got to start questioning yourself sometimes around the way the ruck is being policed at the moment, whether it's worth playing attacking rugby, whether it's worth going phase to phase, because some of the turnovers out there were interesting at best''.
He complains every week about how other teams are disrupting the Tahs ball at the breakdown and referees are making mistakes but the reality is that is how the game is being refereed this year. I doubt SANZAR are going to change the instructions to referees just because it doesn't suit the way Cheika wants the Tahs to play the game.
Either the Tahs need to get more numbers into the breakdown earlier or they should play some field position (or a combination of both). I'm not advocating that they abandon their running game - just balance it a little.
Mixing it up a little with kicking at the right time will also get the opposition in two minds - then if they keep players back to defend the kick, then run it from your own half.
I like what the Tahs are trying to do but I think that if they don't make some changes to the game plan, we'll all continue to be entertained but the Tahs will keep getting the same result.
If the Tahs want to keep ball in hand and run it from every part of the park they need to sort out the breakdown - they just start to build momentum with their attack and you can see holes opening up in the defence when they either get turned over at the breakdown or the ball is slowed by the opposition which means the Tahs have to restart their attack. This same thing is happening week after week.
Cheika is quoted at the press conference last night saying ''You've almost got to start questioning yourself sometimes around the way the ruck is being policed at the moment, whether it's worth playing attacking rugby, whether it's worth going phase to phase, because some of the turnovers out there were interesting at best''.
He complains every week about how other teams are disrupting the Tahs ball at the breakdown and referees are making mistakes but the reality is that is how the game is being refereed this year. I doubt SANZAR are going to change the instructions to referees just because it doesn't suit the way Cheika wants the Tahs to play the game.
Either the Tahs need to get more numbers into the breakdown earlier or they should play some field position (or a combination of both). I'm not advocating that they abandon their running game - just balance it a little.
Mixing it up a little with kicking at the right time will also get the opposition in two minds - then if they keep players back to defend the kick, then run it from your own half.
Yeah, the tahs run out of units to get to the ruck after a few phases, most other sides kick when that nearly happens or re-set through some hit ups.
To me, it comes down to better decision making in attack (balance), hopefully that will come as they get used to it.
To me, it comes down to better decision making in attack (balance), hopefully that will come as they get used to it.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
This is what is really killing them and they also turn the ball over too often with a poor kick or a poor pass through inexperience or lack of vision or lack of skill.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Brilliant last night.
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