Israel Folau can send this thread to hell and no others

[TOCC]

Yeah, i guess as the obvious target of the comments. But really, they shouldn't. And i doubt many will/do. It's an evolving issue but i'm sure they have to deal with far worse than some christian sportsman saying he disagrees with them.

Thats downplaying it quite a bit to claim he was just disagreeing with them, what he said was that it was gods plan for gay people is to go to hell unless they repent their sins.

Whether people 'should care' or not isn't the point and thats not for you to state either, there are gay rugby players at multiple levels of the system right now, including at least one professional rugby player. People do care, and this kind of language or behaviour, especially from such a prominent person in the organisation can adversely impact on those who are already struggling with the social pressure of their own homosexuality.

It was an immature, naive and a wilfully ignorant comment, and goes against Rugby Australia's own 'inclusion policy':

1. 1. 1.3 As an organisation, the ARU’s vision is to ignite passion, build character and createan inclusive Australian Rugby community. Our vision can only be achieved if our game is one where every individual participant, whether a player, official, volunteer, supporter or administrator feels safe, welcome and included.
   2. 1.4 ARU recognises that both intentional and unintentional homophobic behaviour exists within society in Australia, and that this can have adverse and potentially significant consequences for some individuals and our game.
   3. 1.5 Sometimes these consequences mean that individuals who want to play Rugby or be involved in our game, feel excluded and as a result cease their involvement or even hide their sexuality. In some cases, individuals who continue playing may be subjected to homophobic language or actions and are needlessly and wrongfully subjected to discrimination, thus reducing their enjoyment of Rugby. These outcomes are unacceptable and unwelcome in our game.
      
   4. 1.6 ARU’s policy on inclusion is simple: Rugby has and must continue to be a sport where players, officials, volunteers, supporters and administrators have the right and freedom to participate regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion and without fear of exclusion. There is no place for homophobia or any form of discrimination in our game and our actions and words both on and off the field must reflect this.
   5. http://www.rugbyaustralia.com.au/Portals/1/PDFs/InclusionPolicy.pdf

1. 4.3 ARU’s plan to create an environment that supports and encourages gay, lesbian andbisexual participant involvement in Rugby goes further than just the elimination of direct and indirect discrimination.
   
   
2. 4.4 ARU is committed to doing more to positively promote a culture of respect and inclusion for gay, lesbian and bisexual participants, rather than just challenging negative behaviours like homophobia and to break down the barriers which may operate to prevent participation in our game. With this Policy, the ARU is seeking to avoid any cultural attitudes or actions that may have developed within any aspect of our game which, while not necessarily being overt, might create an unwelcoming environment for gay, lesbian or bisexual participants and promote silence and invisibility.

 

[Derpus]

Fair enough.

My point was generally that we shouldn't listen to footballers about stuff so i still think we are more or less on the same page. But yeah.

 

[Slim 293]

To an extent.... but your highest profile player making inflammatory homophobic comments like that are (rightfully) likely to offend a lot of people, including a major sponsor....

I think he’s lucky that it hasn’t received more attention.... yet.

Ah, here we go........

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...n-for-gay-people-is-hell-20180404-p4z7rd.html

https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/...t/news-story/25a982f815089657a5c877fb63233220

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... 508f858127

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...sy-by-saying-gods-plan-for-gay-people-is-hell

 

[jollyswagman]

This my be the first real PR test for Raelene Castle. If QC (Quade Cooper) received a $40k fine and a 3 match suspension for his "toxic environment" comments then I am interested to see how a judiciary may punish Folau for this. Surely this is far more offensive to many, including myself, and I hope he cops it to be quite honest.

 

[fatprop]

This my be the first real PR test for Raelene Castle. If QC (Quade Cooper) received a $40k fine and a 3 match suspension for his "toxic environment" comments then I am interested to see how a judiciary may punish Folau for this. Surely this is far more offensive to many, including myself, and I hope he cops it to be quite honest.

So you want to punish someone for their religious beliefs?

For an idea? Because it offends you............

Do you have any understanding of history?

 

[Merrow]

Kind of puts RA in a bad situation though, having their star player broadcasting to the world that the head of their major sponsor is heading to hell......unless he repents of course

 

[TOCC]

So you want to punish someone for their religious beliefs?

For an idea? Because it offends you....

Do you have any understanding of history?

I can’t believe this, are you seriously trying to make Folau the victim in this?

Folau can believe what he likes, when Folau starts expressing those beliefs on social media, to an audience of 300k followers, especially to the tune of ‘gays will go to hell’ it becomes about more then what his beliefs are about and more about how his words and actions impact on those he is talking about.

Even if you agree with the words he chose, that doesn’t change that it goes against Rugby Australia’s own inclusion policy. A policy raised to reflect modern society and ensure that regardless of race, repetition or sexual orientation than they don’t feel excluded.

If a high profile gay player were claiming via social media that Catholics deserved a life of damnation, my opinion on this wouldn’t change, it’s unacceptable both ways.

 

[KOB1987]

I'm not religious and I'm not gay, but I can appreciate both points of view. His biggest crime was his choice of words (which need to be viewed in a religious context) and putting it on Twitter. In any case, if Quade and Harmichael deserved their own thread then so does this, not this one.

Let Castle make a scene about it and suspend him for 3 games which he is allowed to serve while he is injured. Everyone's happy then. That's what NZ would do if it was Sonny Bill.

Moving on..

 

[fatprop]

I can’t believe this, are you seriously trying to make Folau the victim in this?

Folau can believe what he likes, when Folau starts expressing those beliefs on social media, to an audience of 300k followers, especially to the tune of ‘gays will go to hell’ it becomes about more then what his beliefs are about and more about how his words and actions impact on those he is talking about.

Even if you agree with the words he chose, that doesn’t change that it goes against Rugby Australia’s own inclusion policy. A policy raised to reflect modern society and ensure that regardless of race, repetition or sexual orientation than they don’t feel excluded.

If a high profile gay player were claiming via social media that Catholics deserved a life of damnation, my opinion on this wouldn’t change, it’s unacceptable both ways.

Victim? Not yet, but the torches are assembling, the outrage is strong in defence of others as usual. I doubt if any gay person in Aus doesn't already know that a multitude of different religions\sects think they are going to hell.

I disagree with his sentiments, but will defend his right to express his beliefs.

My "modern society" has people able to hold different beliefs.

Offended by his words? So what.

If you don't like what he says on twitter, don't follow him. Or start following him and try to change his mind

But the concept, as suggested above, of fining someone or suspending someone for stating their religious beliefs? Yeh, nah

 

[Braveheart81]

He's allowed to express his religious beliefs but he isn't free from having those views critiqued and, if they are deemed too offensive, acted on by his employer for directly contradicting their stated policy.

Folau's comments are highly offensive. He chose to express it in a way that is clearly inflammatory.

I think there will have to be some reaction from Rugby Australia.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[TOCC]

Victim? Not yet, but the torches are assembling, the outrage is strong in defence of others as usual. I doubt if any gay person in Aus doesn't already know that a multitude of different religions\sects think they are going to hell.

I disagree with his sentiments, but will defend his right to express his beliefs.

My "modern society" has people able to hold different beliefs.

Offended by his words? So what.

If you don't like what he says on twitter, don't follow him. Or start following him and try to change his mind

But the concept, as suggested above, of fining someone or suspending someone for stating their religious beliefs? Yeh, nah

Torches assembling? Are you kidding mate, the irony of that comment isn’t lost on me. Folau is the one who lit the fire for people to actually offended by stating gays will go to hell. The fact you can’t see that speaks volume.

What if Higgers were a neo-nazi, would you defend his right to express his anti-semantic opinion? Or what if Hooper suddenly started writing comments on social media that black people shouldn’t be offered the same opportunities as whites?

“Offended by words? So what” Are you really going to tell me that words don’t cause anguish, fear, pain and hate? Open your eyes mate.

Folau is either deliberately vindictive or a stupid prick who doesn’t understand the influence and reach of social media. It also means he hasn’t grasped the ARU’s own inclusion policy.

People can hold whatever beliefs they like, when they start expressing those ‘beliefs’ in a medium which reaches an audience of 300k, it becomes more then what his beliefs are and rather how those words and the intent of those words impact on others. Surely you recognise this?????

 

[gel]

Pretty slippery slope when we start punishing people for stating their beliefs.

 

[Derpus]

So you want to punish someone for their religious beliefs?

For an idea? Because it offends you....

Do you have any understanding of history?

Every time:

 

[TOCC]

....

 

[Omar Comin']

As ridiculous and wrong as I think his comments are it's a pretty mainstream view in Christianity and other religions. As someone who's not a believer I'm sure he would say I'm also on my way to hell. But I don't believe in hell, so I don't really care what he thinks or find it particularly threatening. I'm sure he believes most of us are going to whatever he thinks hell is for one reason or another.

I'm not sure how the ARU could suspend or fine him for his comments given the same ARU inclusion policy mentions religion as well as sexual orientation. Could Folau not argue it would be against this policy to punish him for answering a question about his religious beliefs? And is he allowed to seek censorship or punishment of people who publicly offend his own world view, based on his religion?

I think what should happen in this situation is a loss of reputation and sponsorship. His market value should decrease. But I'm unconvinced there should be anything more than that. He hasn't threatened anyone, except with a fiction.

 

[wamberal]

There is a marked difference between “I don’t support gay marriage” and “all gays will go to hell”.

The marked difference is that we all accept that "marriage" exists. It is a fact.


"Hell" is only a fact to those who believe it is a fact. I would guess that this precludes the majority of the general population, and a greater majority of gay and similar people.



It is a hateful thing to say, but meaningless to those who do not hold compatible religious views.

 

[TOCC]

It won’t be lost on the ARU that the Wallabies largest sponsor, and most consistent sponsor over the past decade has a gay CEO and a patron of LGBTI inclusion programs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Derpus]

The thing that irks me the most is now we are all going to go on a pointless debate about offence and religious freedoms and shit instead of talking about rugby.

Fuck you Folau.

 

[wamberal]

As ridiculous and wrong as I think his comments are it's a pretty mainstream view in Christianity and other religions. As someone who's not a believer.

Okay you are not a believer. I am a member of a mainsteam Christian church, and I can assure you that this sort of hateful remark is not "mainstream". All the mainstream religions accept the notion of redemption, and anybody who actually takes the time to read and understand exactly what Jesus said and did would not say anything like this.

 

[Ignoto]

As ridiculous and wrong as I think his comments are it's a pretty mainstream view in Christianity and other religions.

I agree with it being a fairly 'mainstream' view for a lot of Christians, but the most influential Christian leader has openly accepted members of the LGBTI community. As the 'mouth piece' of God, I'd dare say a lot of Christians, including Izzy need to revisit their learning's.

In any event, I don't care if Izzy has those beliefs or views, he's allowed them. Just because I, you or we don't agree with them doesn't mean he has to 'retract' anything.