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Jackalling , should it be outlawed

Dan54

John Eales (66)
Sorry if this been discussed elsewhere, but I know it been thrown up in a couple of papers lately, and I wonder is it time to outlaw the Jackal in rugby, and just go back to when you hit the ground it becomes a ruck, like it used to be. Just someone in the position to Jackal is always in a dangerous position, and in the days of being a bit more careful of player safety, jackallers almost never really leagl as reaching for ball their head is lower than their hips. I know players coming in have to be more carful etc, but the whole point is to fly in and stop the player from getting his hands on the ball, so will always be dangerous. Just think if everyone is made to hold feet and go over ball it will stop a lot of pile ups as well. Also will take out the everyone just spreading out in defence line which happens now, and will create more space on field?
Just a few thoughts I had, and would be ineterested to read other's opinions.
 

Dan54

John Eales (66)
And I would add I have wondered this for a while , mainly after reading Richie McCaw's and more even Sam Warburton's books. They talked a bit about the force on necks etc etc.
 

Dan54

John Eales (66)
Will turn rugby into league without a tackle count.
Ok well I think the jackalling has turned us more into league. We used to practice blowing past the ball etc, and I always thought was more a contest, now when someone gets hands on ball seems all bets off. Was one of the great contests on field when I played.
 

PhilClinton

Jim Lenehan (48)
Can't see it being outlawed in the next couple of years, but longer term, with all the stuff around player safety, I'm honestly not sure what lengths the administrators will go to.

If you remove 'jackling' it's removing a skillset of a number of very good rugby players at all levels of the game. The effect would be similar to making all scrums non-contested for player safety (a move which honestly has been gradually happening with all the changes in the last 10 years). Having these types of contests is a key part of rugby and why it can be played by a variety of players and body types.

At the end of the day, all contact ball sports are in danger right now. But if rugby were to remove a key contest in the game, they may be the first to die.
 

LeCheese

Vay Wilson (31)
Definitely a tricky one - without a doubt jackallers are in a very vulnerable position, and there's probably not much more that can be done to limit this. On the other hand, there is an inherent risk associated with incentivising rucking and higher-intensity collisions over the ball too.

I'm always a proponent of player safety, but does it make sense to remove a technical highlight of the contest, in the name of player safety, if it might not actually improve player safety?
 

stillmissit

Vay Wilson (31)
No! I preferred rucking but if you can't lay a boot on a player laying on the ground to move them out off the ball then Jackling is a better way to go with ONE proviso - we must get players to support the jackler, staying in the D as you think the jackler has done his job is very dangerous and supporting him should be our first consideration. The D comes second.
I used to get so mad watching how we left Pocock to take the dangerous neck twists and wild cleanouts due to our coach's damned stupid idea that the D was more important than player safety or the breakdown.
This kind of thing is directly against one of the basic things rugby is about ie looking after your fellow player.

No wonder Pocock has become a manic left winger it must be brain damage!!!!!
 

waiopehu oldboy

Phil Waugh (73)
A true jackel is such a rarity that I'd leave it in the game but penalize anyone who stops supporting their body weight & doesn't immediately let go of the ball & enforce the existing Law that says you can only lift the ball not scoop it back.
 

John S

Nev Cottrell (35)
A true jackel is such a rarity that I'd leave it in the game but penalize anyone who stops supporting their body weight & doesn't immediately let go of the ball & enforce the existing Law that says you can only lift the ball not scoop it back.
Yep, the amount of times the "jackaller" isn't truly supporting their weight and goes unpunished is astonishing - everyone does it. I guess the refs are usually looking at easier areas of infringement
 

The_Brown_Hornet

Phil Kearns (64)
Totally agree on penalising guys not supporting their bodyweight, but reward the blokes who are and are prepared to get in there to steal the ball at the breakdown. If we outlaw jackalling we might as well be rugby league.
 

Dan54

John Eales (66)
Totally agree on penalising guys not supporting their bodyweight, but reward the blokes who are and are prepared to get in there to steal the ball at the breakdown. If we outlaw jackalling we might as well be rugby league.
I don't understand that thought Brown, rugby is closer to league these days than it has ever been, why, because we are taking away the contest, rucking , and true rucking requires most of forward pack to be involved.
And no rucking is not stomping on players, you move players by rucking them back which is still legal today. A proper ruck is or was\generally won by a pack going in with good body position in a tight formation (similar to how mauls that are efficent), a good jackal is won bt one person getting his hands on the ball, why the rest of forward packs just clog up backlines etc I think. To me rugby was always about a team working as a unit, and I think we are moving away from it, and why I think we getting more like league.
I honestly don't know many people who don't think that rugby is closer to league now than it has ever been.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

Phil Kearns (64)
I should perhaps expand on my point here. The thing that characterises rugby and sets it apart from league is the contest for the ball in practically every aspect of the game. Nowhere is this more evident than at the breakdown, where the first or second player on the scene has the opportunity to try and turn the ball over, whilst being on your feet and on the correct side of the ball. I'd be loathe to support any change that detracts from that.
 

Dan54

John Eales (66)
I should perhaps expand on my point here. The thing that characterises rugby and sets it apart from league is the contest for the ball in practically every aspect of the game. Nowhere is this more evident than at the breakdown, where the first or second player on the scene has the opportunity to try and turn the ball over, whilst being on your feet and on the correct side of the ball. I'd be loathe to support any change that detracts from that.
Agrre mate on what characterises our game, but I still always remember rucking as a hugely competitive part of game requiring almost whole forward team, if you didn't want to be blown off the ball. There weren't the bodies on ground either as what happens now whith a jackaller as the tackled player had to also move. You could never have only 3-4 in a ruck as you lost it more often that not.
But I see your point too.
 

Dan54

John Eales (66)
Seems like the jackal is next on NZR's to do list:

Well obviously they either read G&GR, or perhaps I have the ear of someone in NZR so got them to look at it?? ;)
Or could just obviously be something that needs looking at (doesn't have to change but look at it) . I prefer the first 2 options.;)
 
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