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John I. Dent Cup 2016 - ACT Premier Rugby

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No.8

Phil Hardcastle (33)
As a neutral, I thought it was a great game! Whites backline were dominant all game, and they caused absolute chaos the second they got behind the Owls defensive line.

The scrums were even, and for the first hour the lineouts were too, but then Whites caught on to the fact that Owls only through to their 8 and just competed with him.

The scrumhalf for Uni was fantastic, and their flyhalf was probably MotM. Stampede calls the Owls 11 "Twinkle-Toes", but he had some great power behind him too. For Queanbeyan, I thought Penca and Tiatia were their best.


Yea mate it was a tough old battle - Uni seem to step up when they play the Whites.

As you mentioned the half-back was great for Uni and their 5/8 was everywhere - had a great game!

As I mentioned in my post I think the Whites are in need of the BYE - they seemed to lack abit of spark - they have a Bye this week / Wests and then another Bye - then one last Bye in the last round - which I think is a perfect draw to be honest in regards to resting/peaking.
 

No.8

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Now that's just a bridge too far. The first thing to bring up is always rule 6.A.4:
- a.) The referee is the sole judge of fact and of Law during a match.
I think we, as fans, like to get caught up in the idea that refs have a bias that will decide the game one way or another, but when we sit down and think about it, they're not biased. A Saffa team might get a home ground advantage from a Saffa ref because that ref is used to the SARU game, but not because they're biased against the visiting team. And even when a ref calls the same penalty differently, they'll often explain why to the captain because they know how bad it might look; at the Brumbies-Crusaders game last year, Peyper gave Mogg a yellow card for deliberate knock down and later only penalised a Crusader for the same offence. I was mad when we were at the game live, but when I watched the replay, Peyper explained that "the other penalty was a yellow because it might have been a try, this one was on half way.".

I think that is part of why I got mad as a fan in the ground, and Moore accepted the call and moved on; he got to hear an explanation, I didn't. This is also why the reaction of fans is both more tolerable and less influential. Hell, even coaches have a hard time with these calls; Stiles basically shouted "f**king bulls**t" when the Blues got their penalty to tie the game, but he didn't go down to the press and say "We were robbed by the referee.", did he? So to see this coming from the team, a team I've liked watching this year, pisses me off.

That aside, I think I can speak for all of us when I say that the refs have been between okay and fantastic this season, usually just plain good. It's been a real pleasure, actually. Morris has been the real stand out as a fantastic referee, especially in the first Owls-Wests game and the cracker between Vikings and Whites. I saw Henshaw in the first week at Royals-Whites for the Seconds, and for Owls-Whites on the weekend, and he was good too.

I've only seen Nelson, the ref in the Royals-Easts game, at the first Eagles-Easts game and for either the Colts or Seconds at the Vikings-Whites game, and he's been good (I'm not going to claim he's great, but he's good). So not only do I think attacking him is intolerable even if he was bad, but all my experience says that he isn't, and people I've talked to who were at the game (admittedly, Royals fans too) say that he was encouraging an attacking game, and they didn't fault him.

I think it's disgraceful from Easts, and retracting it isn't good enough, active apology is needed.


Couldn't agree more mate - I think the refs have been good this year - yes there is ALWAYS going to be boarder-line calls but that is the nature of the beast but at the end of the day - they are bosses on the field and if you don't like it then don't be involved in the game.

Just sort of shows how professional - or should I say un-professionally the club is currently run - and they are in no way shape or form in a position to comment on the refs - they are not winning games due to the management of the club of the last decade or so - not due to what the refs are saying on the field.
 

RoffsChoice

Jim Lenehan (48)
As I mentioned in my post I think the Whites are in need of the BYE - they seemed to lack abit of spark - they have a Bye this week / Wests and then another Bye - then one last Bye in the last round - which I think is a perfect draw to be honest in regards to resting/peaking.


I just checked the draw, there's only one more game this season with the Whites outside Queanbeyan! I haven't made it to Campese Oval this year, maybe the Vikings game in round 12 will be the one. They've definitely been the most enjoyable to watch this season.
 

RoffsChoice

Jim Lenehan (48)
Brief follow up on the Easts comments; still stand by everything I said, he's apologised, still not happy but it's not a witch hunt. Hope that Nelson didn't take any of it to heart.
Easts.png
 

No.8

Phil Hardcastle (33)
I just checked the draw, there's only one more game this season with the Whites outside Queanbeyan! I haven't made it to Campese Oval this year, maybe the Vikings game in round 12 will be the one. They've definitely been the most enjoyable to watch this season.


Yea mate - that's the other thing - all games are basically at home - besides 1 V's Wests in Round 11 @ Jamison.


The Vikings game will be a real test to see where they are upto/how they are improving - the last couple of years they have beaten Vikings early in the season and then dropped the game at Campese - if they can win both games against Vikings it will be a huge confidence and mental boost to not only the 1st XV but the whole club.
 

No.8

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Brief follow up on the Easts comments; still stand by everything I said, he's apologised, still not happy but it's not a witch hunt. Hope that Nelson didn't take any of it to heart.
View attachment 7879

I guess what has been said has been seen and it doesn't help the club at all - you could MAYBE understand it from a player having a rant but the club president is just not on - they need to be putting all their focus into re-building the club and WINNING A GAME.

Actions speak louder than words and they have the chance to hopefully get some respect back this weekend V's Wests and get the 'W' on the board.
 

RoffsChoice

Jim Lenehan (48)
Yea mate - that's the other thing - all games are basically at home - besides 1 V's Wests in Round 11 @ Jamison.


The Vikings game will be a real test to see where they are upto/how they are improving - the last couple of years they have beaten Vikings early in the season and then dropped the game at Campese - if they can win both games against Vikings it will be a huge confidence and mental boost to not only the 1st XV but the whole club.

I'm willing to bet that Queanbeyan could go into the finals in 1st place on their form + ability (not that it helps much when you end up facing Vikings at Vikings anyway). That clash will be big for the Seconds too, it would put them above the Vikings after their byes.
 

RoffsChoice

Jim Lenehan (48)
I guess what has been said has been seen and it doesn't help the club at all - you could MAYBE understand it from a player having a rant but the club president is just not on - they need to be putting all their focus into re-building the club and WINNING A GAME.

Actions speak louder than words and they have the chance to hopefully get some respect back this weekend V's Wests and get the 'W' on the board.

Yeah, I was under the impression that it was just an intern or something, but to see it was from the President got the blood boiling. I remember an article talking about how the Brumbies' deficit has been more-or-less equal to their spending on club rugby for the last ten years; how does the board feel when they see that the cause of their debt is slagging the refs?

Given how the season is going, I expect Easts to beat Wests, but the gods could be cruel and give them a draw.
 

Istanbul

Vay Wilson (31)
Is it really so bad for someone to express an opinion? He believed it was a woeful refereeing display and highlighted a decision he didn't agree with. No suggestion of bias or cheating just an opinion. You can pass opinion on players performance so why not refs? You don't have to agree with the opinion but surely we aren't so precious to be outraged about someone expressing a view be it a president or otherwise. I'd rather hear genuine opinion than the bland politically correct comments.
 

No.8

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Is it really so bad for someone to express an opinion? He believed it was a woeful refereeing display and highlighted a decision he didn't agree with. No suggestion of bias or cheating just an opinion. You can pass opinion on players performance so why not refs? You don't have to agree with the opinion but surely we aren't so precious to be outraged about someone expressing a view be it a president or otherwise. I'd rather hear genuine opinion than the bland politically correct comments.



I am all for members of the rugby community in the ACT having their opinion on things in regards to players, official's etc - BUT there is a time and a place to voice these opinion's and it needs to be directed at the right audience in the right away.

A president of a Rugby Club should not out and out slander a ref on social media - is it that bad, yes. Does he have the right to have an opinion, yes. Should he of focused his time on going down a more official road to voice his opinion, yes.


Let's just hope Easts haven't burnt more bridges due to a Saturday night match report on their facebook page - as I mentioned the best thing they can do and the only thing they can do/focus on is winning games - at the end of the day that is the core to building a successful club.
 

No.8

Phil Hardcastle (33)
I'm willing to bet that Queanbeyan could go into the finals in 1st place on their form + ability (not that it helps much when you end up facing Vikings at Vikings anyway). That clash will be big for the Seconds too, it would put them above the Vikings after their byes.

Yea if the Whites can get the win over the Vikings they should hopefully go to the top of the ladder - that's if they beat Wests of course in acouple of weeks - stranger things have happened!

2nd's comp there are really two players at the moment and that is the Vikings and Whites - very well matched sides - and will be a cracker as you said in a few weeks time.
 

Accidental Offside

Bob McCowan (2)
I've only seen Nelson, the ref in the Royals-Easts game, at the first Eagles-Easts game and for either the Colts or Seconds at the Vikings-Whites game, and he's been good (I'm not going to claim he's great, but he's good). So not only do I think attacking him is intolerable even if he was bad, but all my experience says that he isn't, and people I've talked to who were at the game (admittedly, Royals fans too) say that he was encouraging an attacking game, and they didn't fault him.

I think it's disgraceful from Easts, and retracting it isn't good enough, active apology is needed.

Agreed that attacking a referee's integrity is disgraceful and there's no place for it.

In terms of Nelson I have to disagree, It seems to me he has no feel for the game of rugby. His interactions with players leave a lot to be desired and are often inflammatory.

I think there are much better referees that are consistently refereeing in 2nd grade. Referee's like Ingram and Beisner in my opinion are much more deserving of 1st grade appointments.

It's a shame because I think Canberra referee's are generally of a good stadard but it seems backroom politics are keeping some good ones down.
 

RoffsChoice

Jim Lenehan (48)
Is it really so bad for someone to express an opinion? He believed it was a woeful refereeing display and highlighted a decision he didn't agree with. No suggestion of bias or cheating just an opinion. You can pass opinion on players performance so why not refs? You don't have to agree with the opinion but surely we aren't so precious to be outraged about someone expressing a view be it a president or otherwise. I'd rather hear genuine opinion than the bland politically correct comments.

I think the issue here is that there's no effort in being constructive or helpful, it's mostly a scream into the void (and an offensive one at that). But this call for less PC comments is exactly why we laugh at Genia's post-match interviews and love people like Sharpe.
If he had said something like "The referee was light on the calls with some reckless play, and maybe we could have gotten something on another day, but it wasn't the case.", then that probably goes down fine, but when you're going to criticise, there's no need to make it vitriolic or personal.
 

RoffsChoice

Jim Lenehan (48)
Agreed that attacking a referee's integrity is disgraceful and there's no place for it.

In terms of Nelson I have to disagree, It seems to me he has no feel for the game of rugby. His interactions with players leave a lot to be desired and are often inflammatory.

I think there are much better referees that are consistently refereeing in 2nd grade. Referee's like Ingram and Beisner in my opinion are much more deserving of 1st grade appointments.

It's a shame because I think Canberra referee's are generally of a good stadard but it seems backroom politics are keeping some good ones down.
It's the first time I've heard specific criticisms of him, and I've only seen him twice so I'm not the best judge, but I'll keep an eye out for those things the next time I see him.


I think the best three are Morris, Hogan, and Hagan, but I'd pick out Rahilly as the black-horse option for mine. Definitely have no problem with Ingram having more chances. Is Beisner the one I keep seeing in the Colts games?
 
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