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Ma'a Nonu

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Trevor Allan (34)
i'm interested to see if they rebuild from in house or look to bring others in after this. dane coles has been back up hooker for a while but in my opinion is a bigger seagull than ben alexander. not really sure who they'd put at inside center, especially to replace the style of nonu.
 
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Jay

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i'm interested to see if they rebuild from in house or look to bring others in after this. dane coles has been back up hooker for a while but in my opinion is a bigger seagull than ben alexander. not really sure who they'd put at inside center, especially to replace the style of nonu.

Coles is dreadful, far too small to be an effective scrummager and, while he is a fairly quick and skillful runner in space (for a front rower), lacks power when looking to make yards up the middle. And his throwing is nothing special.

I reckon Hammett is gonna try to build the team up from within. The Canes have the largest (in terms of provinces anyway - not sure about playing numbers) catchment area in NZ rugby and while the new contracting system means they don't get automatic first dibs on those guys like they would have, you'd have to hope they'd have a head start in trying to get their hands on promising youngsters.
 

dobduff11

Trevor Allan (34)
not really sure who they'd put at inside center, especially to replace the style of nonu.

Charlie Ngatai is a quality player with great pace. Played for the NZ U20's team last year and was a constant menace. Also played against the reds I think when Nonu was injured/banned and gave a good account of himself before he got injured.

Even with that kind of replacement I think it was stupid of Hammett to let go arguably the best 12 in the world. Off field issues anyone?
 
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Jay

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Charlie Ngatai is a quality player with great pace. Played for the NZ U20's team last year and was a constant menace. Also played against the reds I think when Nonu was injured/banned and gave a good account of himself before he got injured.

Even with that kind of replacement I think it was stupid of Hammett to let go arguably the best 12 in the world. Off field issues anyone?

Stuff is reporting it's a disciplinary thing. Not any one particular incident, just a general off pitch attitude matter. Ditto Hore.
 

Riptide

Dave Cowper (27)
Stuff is reporting it's a disciplinary thing. Not any one particular incident, just a general off pitch attitude matter. Ditto Hore.

Hore is part of the leadership group in the ABs (along with McCaw, Mealamu, Thorn, Carter, Smith, Muliaina), and Nonu has been the best 12 in the world and an outstanding performer for the ABs for the past three seasons. Neither have disciplinary issues within the AB set-up either on or off the field. Hore is known to enjoy a beer but is nowhere near the rabble rouser he once was in in early playing career.

Now admittedly, they might be willing to toe the Henry line in order to be in the AB squad and they may not have a similar fear, hunger factor for their home franchise, but it really takes a fair bit of balls to remove 2 current ABs from the squad (Nonu wasn't exactly playing poorly either). Both have strong personalities, but are considered genuinely good blokes. Nonu befriended SBW on his first AB tour last year and apparently went out of his way to get him acclimatized, which is hardly the sign of a trouble maker. Hammett may have found it tough to stamp his authority on the squad and change "the team's culture" with Nonu & Hore's on-field and locker room presence but I'll be very surprised if it emerges that either were disruptive.

Hammett received full board backing for this move but the board had to either fully support their coach on such a matter, or fire him. Bottom line, I expect this to be just a case of Hammett wanting to do everything his way and only his way, and that was proving difficult with two such strong, personable and influential players. One would have though that a good man manager would have been able to deal with such issues (making assumptions here), but Hammett clearly sought and was granted exactly what he want. Next season, he had better produce strong results or his coaching career will deservedly be cut short.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
Hore sounds more like a case of cutting old wood in favour of youth. Hammett must be on a crusade (pun intended) and it looks like he has the support of the board to be able to make such big and potentially controversial decisions.
 
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Jay

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Hore is part of the leadership group in the ABs (along with McCaw, Mealamu, Thorn, Carter, Smith, Muliaina), and Nonu has been the best 12 in the world and an outstanding performer for the ABs for the past three seasons. Neither have disciplinary issues within the AB set-up either on or off the field. Hore is known to enjoy a beer but is nowhere near the rabble rouser he once was in in early playing career.

Now admittedly, they might be willing to toe the Henry line in order to be in the AB squad and they may not have a similar fear, hunger factor for their home franchise, but it really takes a fair bit of balls to remove 2 current ABs from the squad (Nonu wasn't exactly playing poorly either). Both have strong personalities, but are considered genuinely good blokes. Nonu befriended SBW on his first AB tour last year and apparently went out of his way to get him acclimatized, which is hardly the sign of a trouble maker. Hammett may have found it tough to stamp his authority on the squad and change "the team's culture" with Nonu & Hore's on-field and locker room presence but I'll be very surprised if it emerges that either were disruptive.

Hammett received full board backing for this move but the board had to either fully support their coach on such a matter, or fire him. Bottom line, I expect this to be just a case of Hammett wanting to do everything his way and only his way, and that was proving difficult with two such strong, personable and influential players. One would have though that a good man manager would have been able to deal with such issues (making assumptions here), but Hammett clearly sought and was granted exactly what he want. Next season, he had better produce strong results or his coaching career will deservedly be cut short.

Agreed.
 

Crow

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Hore is part of the leadership group in the ABs (along with McCaw, Mealamu, Thorn, Carter, Smith, Muliaina), and Nonu has been the best 12 in the world and an outstanding performer for the ABs for the past three seasons. Neither have disciplinary issues within the AB set-up either on or off the field. Hore is known to enjoy a beer but is nowhere near the rabble rouser he once was in in early playing career.
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It doesn't have to be a disciplinary issue to be disruptive. I think that the Brumbies leadership group is an excellent case in point. It doesn't matter if they're good blokes, if they're preventing the coach from achieving the goals he wants.
The Canes have been underperforming for years given the amount of talent on the books. Hammett was brought in to affect meaningful change and it looks like that's what he's doing. I hope White shows the same attitude with the Brumbies. It certainly looks like he's started in the right way.
 

Riptide

Dave Cowper (27)
It doesn't have to be a disciplinary issue to be disruptive. I think that the Brumbies leadership group is an excellent case in point. It doesn't matter if they're good blokes, if they're preventing the coach from achieving the goals he wants.
The Canes have been underperforming for years given the amount of talent on the books. Hammett was brought in to affect meaningful change and it looks like that's what he's doing. I hope White shows the same attitude with the Brumbies. It certainly looks like he's started in the right way.

I not disagreeing with you except.. well something continues to gnaw away at me. Clearly players can be good leaders, supportive of team mates, good in the locker room and yet still not "follow" the letter of what is being laid down by Hammett. Henry himself encourages playing what is in front of you, and adapting to the conditions and opposition. Had Hammett adequately secured by-in from the senior players for his template? Clearly, something wasn't working in most Hurrican games this season, and one could argue that that is what is required of good on-field leadership is to not merely follow the game-plan/mandate laid down by the first year coach especially if it's not working or securing that day's victory. Given the news that Jane is also re-examining his position with the Hurricanes, and that Conrad Smith is also "rumoured" to be upset by the recent turn of events, Hammett seems to have a problem with several of the more experienced players who have no prior history of any "disruption." No, this is not the Brumbies where there is a well documented history of disruption.

Hammett, with no prior head-coaching experience was imposed on the Hurricanes board by the NZRFU. They either had to support him, or put him in a untenable position where they might have to let him go. It's a shame it came to this, but you must let the guy construct the program that you hired him to build in the way he wants or admit you hired the wrong guy and get rid of him (and resign yourself). We will know at the end of next season if the right decision have been made, but right now, there are some pretty pissed of Hurricane fans who are loathe to give him the benefit of the doubt that his board has given him.
 
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daz

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I

It's a shame it came to this, but you must let the guy construct the program that you hired him to build in the way he wants or admit you hired the wrong guy and get rid of him (and resign yourself). .

So in your view of player issues, Rod Macqueen is a dill for not putting up with the light hearted high jinx of Cipriani, but Hammet is allowed to run his ship the way he see's fit?
 

light

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Just interested, if you were an Australian S15 coach would you attempt to sign him?
 
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TheNextBigThing

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9. God knows
10. Whoever's standing in for breakdownBarnes
11. Drewster
12.NONU!
13. Whoever is standing in for hamstrungHorne
14. Turner
15. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

Starting to take shape...
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
Barnes - Carter - Horne - Turner

Where would you have him?

At some point, Barnes and Horne will be injured.

Imagine if they did get Nonu, though.

10. Barnes
11. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
12. Nonu
13. Horne
14. Turner
 

light

Peter Fenwicke (45)
At some point, Barnes and Horne will be injured.

Imagine if they did get Nonu, though.

10. Barnes
11. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
12. Nonu
13. Horne
14. Turner

Would have been awesome to keep Beale!
10. Barnes
11. Mitchell
12. NONU
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Turner
15. Beale

That team would score tries, mind you we are forgetting about Carter and Horne
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
That team would score tries, mind you we are forgetting about Carter and Horne

I'm not! But Carter would see the bench in that situation.

More realistically, we might see this next year:

9. McKibben
10. Barnes
11. Mitchell
12. Carter
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Kingston
15. Turner

This is the Nonu thread? Excuuuuuse me.
 
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