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NSW AAGPS Rugby 2010

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AussieDominance

Trevor Allan (34)
Kings made the change a few years ago now.

Seems to be running smoothly now, as I said though I was a day boy and it was much harder sports wise to meet requirements especially when you live 25 minutes away and you need to be at school at 6am basically three mornings(min) possibly four mornings a week for gym/fitness/skills sessions.
 
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catchpole

Guest
AD & Topo,

Thanks for the explanation.

That change in fundamental philosphy must have had a major impact on the Sports Doctrine at Hunters Hill.

Having said that I have noticed an definite improvemet at Joeys in rowing over the past three years.

However I still believe that there is an increasing number of alternatives to Joeys on offer now for strong Rugby players seeking a superior secondary school environment, compared to 10-20 years ago.
 

Nusadan

Chilla Wilson (44)
catchpole said:
AD & Topo,

Thanks for the explanation.

That change in fundamental philosphy must have had a major impact on the Sports Doctrine at Hunters Hill.

Having said that I have noticed an definite improvemet at Joeys in rowing over the past three years.

However I still believe that there is an increasing number of alternatives to Joeys on offer now for strong Rugby players seeking a superior secondary school environment, compared to 10-20 years ago.

Also the entry of day students to Joeys would have changed things a bit...leave it to your imagination what that could be!
 

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
catchpole said:
AD & Topo,

Thanks for the explanation.

That change in fundamental philosphy must have had a major impact on the Sports Doctrine at Hunters Hill.

Having said that I have noticed an definite improvemet at Joeys in rowing over the past three years.

However I still believe that there is an increasing number of alternatives to Joeys on offer now for strong Rugby players seeking a superior secondary school environment, compared to 10-20 years ago.

Maybe you have hit on the problem right there - rugby is now a career option for some, so parents will shop around with rugby programmes or scholarships in mind. Whilst Joeys has a great rugby tradition, facilities, and training, I'm pretty sure rugby scholarships don't exist (well they never did). The strength of the rugby teams came from 100% participation in the early years, the tradition, and the fact they were all boarders.

Time will tell if the last few years are a blip related to the reorganisation of the school, or a permanent state of affairs.

Thanks for all the match reports guys, being on the other side of the world makes it tough to see any Australian grassroots rugby.
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
Langthorne said:
...any of the Joeys teams (from u12s to opens)...

Under 12s! Crikey, Langers, that's going back a bit. You're probably one of those blokes who knows where College D is.
 

topo

Cyril Towers (30)
catchpole said:
AD & Topo,

Having said that I have noticed an definite improvemet at Joeys in rowing over the past three years.

Are you taking the piss? They have been terrible lately and I think came 7th in this year's HOR. A few years ago (02 - 06) when Michael Morgan was a coach there they had some good crews and were a very close second to Shore every year and were very unlucky not to win in 05, the year they won the Aus Schoolboys 8s. The last 3 years have been woeful. Don't get me started on that, the footy's bad enough.
 
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catchpole

Guest
Enrique,

Maybe you're right and I'm thinking a couple of years back.

My impression at this years HOTR was that Joeys seemed to me to be more competitive across all of the crews. Maybe not winning but challenging and increasingly competitive.

Similarly Grammar are making great progress. Anyway your're right on another issue....this is a rugby site.

Again it goes to the original point. With the change in configuration of Boarder/Day Boy ratio, Rugby may suffer at Joeys and other sports may become stronger or more balanced. A similar fate to most of the other GPS Schools.

With Day Boys on the increase Joeys will also have to increasingly contend with "the greatest plague since the rabbit" eg soccer.

I wonder how 'View manage their sports program that includes Aussie Rules, Rugby League, fencing and a number of other fringe sports, but still manage to produce highly competitive Rugby teams, most years.

Is Riverview the largest GPS School by enrollments? How large is Joeys? The numbers game comes into effect as well. If you have 240 students per age group and lose roughly 40% to soccer and another 20% to other Winter Sports you still have about 100 boys (6 teams) for each year playing Rugby and 180 boys in the Open divsion from which you can select 10 teams.

Applying those percentages to smaller schools and the talent pool becomes very small. Obviously the extreme cases are SBHS and Grammar.

Observing Sportal and some of the comments that you see on that site there also appears to be some talent movement amongst some of the other schools, with players changing school for variety of reasons;

geography
improved academic program
scholarship
improved selection chances due to visbility
School reputation

I am not death riding Joeys Rugby - Far from it. I am simply suggesting that Joeys are now facing increasing competition from many other schools, sports and student configuration on the Rugby scene and their glory days of GPS rugby championships may less frequent.
 

topo

Cyril Towers (30)
Yeah, catchy, I think Joeys will suffer a few consequences from changing the boarder/day boy mix. It was a change that had to be made for the survival of the school and we'll just have to wear it.
History will tell if we are going through a bad patch, which happens from time to time, or whether a century of rugby dominance is over. Hopefully it's the former. We have certainly been there before. I was at the school in the 70s when we struggled to win games for 5 or 6 years. We had a golden period from 04-07 and people forget that Joeys don't win every year.
I just hope they maintain the rugby obsession and play the game with their traditional spirit.

On the matter of numbers, Joeys is relatively small with around 950-1000 students. Years 11-12 have about 200 each and there are a bit less in the lower years. A lot of country boarders don't start until year 9 or 10.
Riverview has almost twice that number, I think, so numbers does come into it, and that's at least one reason they are able to support such a wide variety of sports.
 
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catchpole

Guest
Topo,

I agree. Joeys passion is a very special thing in NSW Rugby, although not always pleasant to be on the receiving end.

I have played a bit overseas and whenever you meet a Joeys Old Boy in club rugby, here or there, you can always rely on several things;

They understand the game and their position, whatever that may be.
They are committed to their job and not letting the team down
They play for the full 80 minutes

Keep the faith. I don't think that will ever change.
 

Refabit

Darby Loudon (17)
I am popping down to watch Joeys take on Scots in Round 1 so I sure hope they're going through some sort of transition/struggle phase.
Back in the old days Scots would be lucky to win 2 or 3 games. (Mind you they were often the 1sts, 2nds and U16A's).
 

topo

Cyril Towers (30)
Refabit said:
I am popping down to watch Joeys take on Scots in Round 1 so I sure hope they're going through some sort of transition/struggle phase.
Back in the old days Scots would be lucky to win 2 or 3 games. (Mind you they were often the 1sts, 2nds and U16A's).

Must have been pre 1970s. I don't remember those days :lmao:
 

Refabit

Darby Loudon (17)
1979 & 1980. Very lean pickings for Scots other than a couple of the top teams. In fact Joeys won the wooden spoon in 1979!

There's a reunion/lunch of the Scots & Joeys teams of 1980 so anyone from that era should get down there next weekend.
 

topo

Cyril Towers (30)
Fair enough. Got me.
I left in 1978. Said to be the worst Joeys side to win a premiership (3 way tie).
 

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Lindommer said:
Langthorne said:
...any of the Joeys teams (from u12s to opens)...

Under 12s! Crikey, Langers, that's going back a bit. You're probably one of those blokes who knows where College D is was.

Hang on there Lindommer, I'm not that old.

I'm feeling a bit better about the state of Joeys rugby thanks to Topo - I just happened to be there (left in 92) at a time when the rugby was strong (and I don't just mean the 1st XV). I'm going to go with the 'just a slump' theory for a bit.
 
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Albert

Guest
Morning Gents. Long time reader, first time poster. First up, well done on the coverage, discussions and opinions - was an awesome change to stumble across you blokes. Good to mix some piss-taking with some genuine footy knowledge.

Better declare my bias up front, lest I be accused of something later on. I'm a Randwick and Joeys tragic, which is balanced by a firm belief in the beauty of bush footy and the adrenalin rush of schools rugby. Nothing better than a Saturday arvo at Hunters Hill, Coogee or up in Armidale.

The discussion regarding the apparent demise of Joeys prompted me to register and post. I don't think things are quite as dire as they seem. Joeys had a golden run 2004-07, headlined by KB (Kurtley Beale) for most of it, with a pretty handy support cast including Pauliasi T, Cutch, Pete Bethem, Nathan Seivert, Sippa T, Fitzy, Tilse and a thousand others.

They got done in 2008 by Riverview in the mud and slop, and by Kings in the final round. Both were top quality games of footy. A few trial season injuries to senior blokes meant the '08 team was very very young. As a consequence, big things were expected of those blokes when they returned in 2009. They started well, blowing away Kings and Shore in the trials, putting 30-odd points on each. Then the comp started. The Joeys / View game last year was a belter, one try each, with discipline costing Joeys big time (three yellow cards) A couple of penalty goals were the difference. The following week, Joeys were blown away by Kings, who went on to humble Riverview and tie the Premiership.

The Sat night after the Kings game, four of the year 12 team members got done for having a beer in the dorms, and were sent home for a week. This meant they were unavailable for the Shore game. Add to that a couple of key injuries, and the team was a mix of 1st XV / 2nd XV and 16As. Boydy described the Joeys effort in that Shore game as the most corageous display he can remember. The goal line defence, holding out approx 25 phases after the bell, only for Shore to finally get across the line, epitomised all that is wonderful about schools footy. The Joeys '09 team didn't win the comp, but the guts the remaining squad members showed that day won a lot of fans.

Don't read too much into the 2010 Auggies and Kings trial results. Auggies will continue to touch Joeys up every year if their calendars remain unchanged. Auggies generally play 5-6 tough trials before they venture to Hunters Hill, and it is always Joeys first hit out, with a number of top line fellas not playing. That's life, just gotta cop it as a valuable education for the young blokes in the Joeys system. The smashing at the hands of Kings, whilst ugly, is still only a trial. There's been a few dramas with the Joeys 'go to' guy, the no 10. Good quality young indigenous kid, nice bloke, helluva footballer. Reality is, life outside the school walls is tougher for some than others, and throws up a few added challenges. He'll be back, hopefully this weekend.

Joeys will be small again in 2010, but I think they'll be fast, with a bit more individual flair than they could boast in 2008-09. Other schools may have poured lots of money into rugby programs, the day boy / boarder breakdown is changing, the rugby calendars have been all over the shop in the last three years, but at the end of the day, I'll still back Boydy and Tice to keep producing footballers at an amazing rate. Watch this space, the Mighty Cerise and Blue have lost a few games, they're human, but they'll never die.

Shit, that was intense for a first post hey?
 
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catchpole

Guest
Albert,

I agree. Great post with some detailed substantiation to the statements contained therein.

I didn't see the Joeys v Shore trial this year, only the Joeys v. King's trial.

I'll get some extra perspective tomorrow when King's host Shore at home for the last trial in the mud.

Extreme weather events predicted for this weekend in Sydney, hopefully restricted to Sunday.

In the past if its very wet only top open teams and A's and B's in the age teams will play.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Welcome Albert - an outstanding post.

Better later than never for this post but I stuffed up my login for the new forum.

Joeys 17 Newington 17

Was at the Joeys v New game today and it was a top game, albeit with teams that will probably contest for 2nd and 3rd spots below Kings.

Joeys were a bit lucky to draw actually. Some of the ball handling, including passing from the two scrum halves used by New, was pretty dire and they left some points on the park. The most significant points left behind at Hunters Hill were right at the end when 12 Latinupulu ( I think) made a break on the final bell with the score 17-17 and threatened to score. Then all the Joeys boys sitting to my right stood up to see what happened and I missed the result at the other 22M line; so I can only conclude that he lost the ball near the goal line.

If Newington can get their ball handling right they could worry Kings who had a few handling problems themselves last week. Their pick and drive work and mauling were very good and you could see the lads getting into position as though they were set pieces. Their three tries came from such tight work near the goal line and it's good to see some of that stuff in schools rugby. It gives hope that Oz youngsters will not have to learn that kind of thing when they are older and at their clubs.

Their two big Islander props (forgive me if I don't attempt to spell their names correctly) helped New to be good on the pick and drive and for counter-rucking but I was a bit puzzled why their size did not translate into scrum dominance but for a couple when Joeys lost the hit.

For New 2 Roach and 12 Latinipulu were the stars. 2009 Oz Schools hooker Roach is obviously not related to TPN but there could be some distant ancestor common to both because Roach plays with the same implacable mongrel as TPN did when he was a schoolboy playing 6 or 8. 12.Latinipulu is a typical Islander midfielder like Purcell from St. Augustines: skilled and knowing beyond his years. I saw McCormack play 12 last week for Kings (after others corrected me that my programme was incorrect) and he was very good. Atkinson from TSC is the benchmark; so NSW Schools should have some decent 12s this year.

I thought that Joeys would struggle more than they did with their smallish pack - especially without 7 Cameron Bond, but they rose to the occasion in their usual blue heeler style. Flyhalf Dillon Walford had his first game for the Ones this year after cooling his heels in lower teams and after having a blinder for the Twos last week. He was just what Joeys needed to lift them, albeit with a few mistakes such as running into his own players and dropping a few pills. Watch this space on Dill.

Fullback Tegart was outstanding for Joeys as he has been in every trial game to date. I doubt if he can kick the ball - he runs so much - and well. Hooker Dicembre had another top game but he will find it hard to get ahead of Roach for the GPS I spot.

It was an enjoyable game and all the lads from both teams should be pleased with their efforts.

[In the Twos: Joeys 46 New 8]
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
Lee, one of the Newington props is Allan Ala'alatoa, Michael's younger brother and a fellow graduate of the Wests Junior Rugby prop factory. Would you believe there's ANOTHER young Ala'alatoa propping in Sydney? Vili at St Andrew's Cathedral School. Referred to as "young Vili" to distinguish him from his uncle.
 
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catchpole

Guest
Although the weather on Saturday was not as bad as first feared intermittent rain continued though the day. The effect on the games was predictable in that both sides suffered multiple turnovers due to dropped ball.

The King’s v. Shore game held great potential but under delivered due to poor playing conditions. After an initial penalty goal by Ed Wylie, 3 converted tries were scored in quick succession seeing King’s move to a 24-0 lead in the first 25 minutes, with many Shore supporters fearing a final score in excess of 50 points. However Shore responded with a quick reverse pass try by their center (Giddy or Draper) near the posts that saw the score stabilize at 24-7 for the next 35 minutes.

After the initial onslaught by the King’s pack, the Shore forwards began to dig deep and frustrate the opposition for a large portion of the game. On a few occasions Shore were able to break out of their 22 and threaten to score. The King’s pack’s superior discipline and control at the breakdown were obvious generally, although regular handling lapses or wayward kicks placed them under pressure at times. These errors and the determination of the Shore forwards at times saw Shore having King’s pinned down in their own 22 and having to depend on the reliable footwork and boot of Ed Wylie to relieve self inflicted pressure.

The standout forwards for Shore were; Hodge (1), Sinclair (5), Irons (6), Wood (7) and Rollins (8).

In the King’s pack, Reid (2), Millar (3), Melrose (4), Killingworth (6), Connor (7) and Kent (8) did nothing to damage their claims for representative selection. The King’s scrum was dominant throughout the afternoon.

The Shore backs were disappointing with fly-half Cleaver appearing reluctant to attack the advantage line. This resulted in both of the Shore centers being robbed of time and space for most of the game. The Shore Full-back (Meakins) and Left Wing (Streeter) both had strong and penetrating runs late in the 2nd half although neither amounted to a try. Streeter defended strongly for the entire afternoon.

Another major feature of the games was the crushing midfield defense by the King’s centers, Freeman (12) and Ingate (13). Regular inside center McCormack missed the game through injury. King’s fullback Curtis scored a brilliant solo try in the first half.

The weather did not stop either side playing with great confidence. As is often the case in Schoolboy Rugby, passes by centers and fullbacks of over 20 meters are commonly attempted with many of them being successful, even in bad conditions. Absolutely amazing and great to watch!

Final Score 1st XV: King’s 36 def. Shore 7.
Final Score 2nd XV: King’s 5 def. Shore 0.
 
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