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NSW AAGPS Rugby 2015

Who will win GPS 2015?


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Cash

Sydney Middleton (9)
Sounds like a week of some absolutely cracking rugby.

Newington vs Scots will decide who'll be the eventual premier(s).

Joeys vs Riverview, the greatest rivalry in the GPS, will be no doubt anyone's game and should be a screamer.

Kings vs Shore will be tense - Shore will be looking for their first W of the season, and this week looks like their best chance.

Pencil me in for N, J, K.
 

Up and Over

Frank Nicholson (4)
Joeys over View - should be a close game
Newington over Scots - could go either way, but home advantage may count.
Kings over Shore - the only realistic chance for shore to register a win, but this is their weakest team for a long time, except Doyle who is carrying them.
 

The has been

Allen Oxlade (6)
Things just got worse for Shore if that's possible. Their tough and most dominant forward #8 James Doyle is out for season with a shoulder injury.
Their best defensive back the tall Jock Armstrong out for a few weeks with cheekbone injury.
It was a totally undisciplined play against Joey's (kicked out on full twice from kick offs,then the next one... forwards in front of the kicker,then they kicked it over the dead-ball line from a penalty kick from 40 metres out when kicking for the sideline! That's 4 times in about 20 mins they gave the ball back to Joeys in an attacking position center - field. They may as well have just given it to Tom Wright and said "Race you to the try line"and we all know what that means.The energetic half back is a great player but does his own thing too often with out telling his team mates ,and puts his team under more pressure.Interesting to see what happens at# 10 this week as Olly Cowlie was replaced mid way through the 2nd half and not through injury apparently .
I hate to say it but this team is a shambles with no structure or direction,its a pity as they play their hearts out each week ,but that's not good enough to compete at this level of school boy rugby each week.Kings to win easily , Scots to beat Newington in a belter of a game. ,thought New's defence was a little ordinary last week end and Scots are much improved from their first game against them. Joeys V View a draw !! View have improved and Joey's rely too much on Tom Wright,should be another great game.
 

Rugby Mum 2

Bill Watson (15)
Shore looks good when Lachie Patrick is at 10 (from the trials).

Agree that View have improved.

You say that Joeys rely too much on Tom Wright but of the 7 tries scored on Saturday, he only scored once. He is a pivotal player in attack but has 14 others who support him and run off him. But isn't that how most playmakers are (even if at 13)? It's like saying View relies too heavily on Jack McGregor.
 

Up and Over

Frank Nicholson (4)
Things just got worse for Shore if that's possible. Their tough and most dominant forward #8 James Doyle is out for season with a shoulder injury.
Their best defensive back the tall Jock Armstrong out for a few weeks with cheekbone injury.
It was a totally undisciplined play against Joey's (kicked out on full twice from kick offs,then the next one. forwards in front of the kicker,then they kicked it over the dead-ball line from a penalty kick from 40 metres out when kicking for the sideline! That's 4 times in about 20 mins they gave the ball back to Joeys in an attacking position center - field. They may as well have just given it to Tom Wright and said "Race you to the try line"and we all know what that means.The energetic half back is a great player but does his own thing too often with out telling his team mates ,and puts his team under more pressure.Interesting to see what happens at# 10 this week as Olly Cowlie was replaced mid way through the 2nd half and not through injury apparently .
I hate to say it but this team is a shambles with no structure or direction,its a pity as they play their hearts out each week ,but that's not good enough to compete at this level of school boy rugby each week.Kings to win easily , Scots to beat Newington in a belter of a game. ,thought New's defence was a little ordinary last week end and Scots are much improved from their first game against them. Joeys V View a draw !! View have improved and Joey's rely too much on Tom Wright,should be another great game.

To improve "undisciplined play" is the responsibility of the coaches - in particular the 1st coaches who are obviously not doing a great job in mentoring or getting their point over. Could be time at the end of the season to make some changes ?
 

formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
To improve "undisciplined play" is the responsibility of the coaches - in particular the 1st coach who is obviously not doing a great job in mentoring or getting his point over. Could be time at the end of the season to make some changes ?

I'm not sure what you mean - don't Shore have two 1st XV coaches?
 

Cash

Sydney Middleton (9)
Suggesting that the coaching is to blame for Shore's lack of success this season would be bordering on absurd. As would the expectation that they would magically become better if they appointed a new coach.

This viewpoint may seem a little narrow and 'controversial' (whatever that means in the context of a schoolboy rugby forum), but here it is:

As far as a team's success is concerned, coaching is pretty useless. It all boils down to the talent pool the school offers, and unfortunately for Shore, it's not very expansive.
 

loiterer

Sydney Middleton (9)
Suggesting that the coaching is to blame for Shore's lack of success this season would be bordering on absurd. As would the expectation that they would magically become better if they appointed a new coach.

This viewpoint may seem a little narrow and 'controversial' (whatever that means in the context of a schoolboy rugby forum), but here it is:

As far as a team's success is concerned, coaching is pretty useless. It all boils down to the talent pool the school offers, and unfortunately for Shore, it's not very expansive.


It seems that blaming the coaching that the boys receive in the opens is a little pointless.

The school would have just as much raw talent as any other GPS school in year 7 - minus a few sporting scholarships (but there's a thread for that). Its just that not only do they fail to develop the talent that they have, they seem to actively try to waste it. They give the impression of being rather over-confident in their coaching ability, how else do you explain training half as much as Joeys and discouraging kids from playing club rugby?

Playing and training less can have quite a cumulative effect over a few years.

Shore seems to actively prepare kids for failure in rugby right from year 7, but the school seems convinced that they have it right.
 

Crackerjack

Bill Watson (15)
The defining "return match" for this year's Premiership (and noted, it's just one of the 5 remaining) will go down at Stanmore Road on Saturday, and fingers are crossed that'll be under clear skies and with fair winds.

Newington, with home ground advantage and a clean sheet so far in 2015, with some dominant performances and passages, well deserve their favouritism. Scots though, have come a long way from the pasting they copped in Round 1 from the boys in black and white.

In the areas that New dominated in that first game of the season - the battle of the scrum, and the front rows in particular, the leakage through the Scots outside channel, the general havoc that New caused Scots' back 3 - all of those areas, I reckon, will see much more even tussles this weekend.

New have been run close by both the Joe Boys and by View in last weekend's epic try-a-thon at Lane Cove, so the Scots lads will take plenty of heart to square the ledger with New for 2015. And as Scots found out last year after exerting some scoreboard dominance of their own in games in the first half of the Comp, all opposition teams lifted measurably for their return matches. I expect this weekend at Stanmore, we will see the same thing and it should be one of those special schoolboy Rugby spectacles, not to be missed... unless of course you're attending at Lane Cove or up on the Northbridge Tablelands!
 

Jim Belshaw

Bob Loudon (25)
The defining "return match" for this year's Premiership (and noted, it's just one of the 5 remaining) will go down at Stanmore Road on Saturday, and fingers are crossed that'll be under clear skies and with fair winds.

Newington, with home ground advantage and a clean sheet so far in 2015, with some dominant performances and passages, well deserve their favouritism. Scots though, have come a long way from the pasting they copped in Round 1 from the boys in black and white....

I expect this weekend at Stanmore, we will see the same thing and it should be one of those special schoolboy Rugby spectacles, not to be missed. unless of course you're attending at Lane Cove or up on the Northbridge Tablelands!


As a Northern Tablelands' chap if now living in Sydney, my focus is on the the thirds. That said, that New v View match last week was an absolute blinder. My thanks for the youtube posts.

Since I'm in a nostalgic mode, this is a photo of the TAS seconds in my last year at school. I was promoted to the seconds when I was in the under fifteens but never made the firsts. I might have done if we had had today's coaching. I had nobody to tell me how to play the game in a tactical sense.

The standard in the New v View match was astonishing. The gap between those days when we always played our level against GPS or Associated and could sometimes win is huge. I guess that it comes back to numbers and money.

On the thirds comp, my feeling is that the end result will come back to TAS v SJ in Armidale. SJ should win on form. If they do, that's the ball game. If TAS wins, then several final results are possible. There is a history to the TAS v SJ games connected with ice creams. That's another story.

For the moment, playing in front of a large home crowd including many "objective" old boys, TAS will lift. They have done so before. Whether that will be enough is uncertain. SJ strikes me as a very good team. But one can travel in hope!
 

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GPS Observer

Herbert Moran (7)
If my maths are correct , ignoring the first round match between Newington and Scots, the for/against differential for both Newington and Scots from the other 4 matches that each played is +68 points...the same.
 

Major Rennie

Herbert Moran (7)
As an Old Boy it is disappointing that Shore constantly come last in the rugby (or 2nd last). Maybe other schools have better programmes or simply recruit, who knows, though is not good for the boys to knowingly struggle each year. Bit like Grammar and High when they were in the comp.
I have no involvement with the school at the moment though was talking to a current parent who mentioned the current coach (and I have no idea who it is) requests that the 1st XV players arrive 1 1/2 hours (or the like) before the game to support other teams yet the coach only turns up 40 minutes before the game.
As I said, I cannot deny or confirm this though if true it is no wonder they struggle.
While the parent acknowledged the school is fantastically run, it's rugby programme is not up to GPS standard. If true and unless it changes, it is only on the water that Shore will do well.

MR
 

formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
As an Old Boy it is disappointing that Shore constantly come last in the rugby (or 2nd last). Maybe other schools have better programmes or simply recruit, who knows, though is not good for the boys to knowingly struggle each year. Bit like Grammar and High when they were in the comp.
I have no involvement with the school at the moment though was talking to a current parent who mentioned the current coach (and I have no idea who it is) requests that the 1st XV players arrive 1 1/2 hours (or the like) before the game to support other teams yet the coach only turns up 40 minutes before the game.
As I said, I cannot deny or confirm this though if true it is no wonder they struggle.
While the parent acknowledged the school is fantastically run, it's rugby programme is not up to GPS standard. If true and unless it changes, it is only on the water that Shore will do well.

MR

Absolute rubbish.
Using a false rumour to support your viewpoint is not helping your argument at all.

On the GPS standard you mention, perhaps Shore is near GPS standard but at least two other schools have spent their way to Super XV standards.
 

Brainstrust

Watty Friend (18)
MR, I have to agree with you in this. I have a number of mates with boys who have been at, or are still at Shore, and their frustration with the not just the lack of support that rugby gets, but in many cases the actual blocking or discouragement of pre season preparation. When you witness season after season of weak performances then you definitely have a program problem. While schools are running sand dunes and working on their style of play, Shore are seemingly discouraged from doing any out of hours preparation. Interestingly they have had a huge run of injuries over the last number of years which must be correlated to their lack of preparation. I will say however that it is a credit to the boys as they never give less than 100%, and there supporters are many and enthusiastic regardless of how Shore is performing. It needs to be fixed quickly or Shore 1st xv will one day face the prospect of being a participant in the 3rd xv comp. re the coaches, I can't comment, but I'm sure they are feeling just as key down by the lack of support they receive and no doubt that will be reflected in their own effort. It's a vicious cycle that needs addressing immediately.


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formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
MR, I have to agree with you in this. I have a number of mates with boys who have been at, or are still at Shore, and their frustration with the not just the lack of support that rugby gets, but in many cases the actual blocking or discouragement of pre season preparation. When you witness season after season of weak performances then you definitely have a program problem. While schools are running sand dunes and working on their style of play, Shore are seemingly discouraged from doing any out of hours preparation. Interestingly they have had a huge run of injuries over the last number of years which must be correlated to their lack of preparation. I will say however that it is a credit to the boys as they never give less than 100%, and there supporters are many and enthusiastic regardless of how Shore is performing. It needs to be fixed quickly or Shore 1st xv will one day face the prospect of being a participant in the 3rd xv comp. re the coaches, I can't comment, but I'm sure they are feeling just as key down by the lack of support they receive and no doubt that will be reflected in their own effort. It's a vicious cycle that needs addressing immediately.


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From a rugby perspective, you are spot on. However, it seems that the Principal of Shore is totally committed to the GPS concept of participation in, and promotion of, all sports at the school. He won't allow winter sports to intrude on summer sports. He won't allow sporting scholarships. He won't allow selective processes to intrude on entry requirements (i.e. first in, best dressed at age 3 months). He won't allow interviews of prospective 5th and 6th graders to ascertain sporting potential.
The rugby playing boys at Shore will have their good years and their bad years, but rugby-focussed schools will always be much better. They will have a year round focus on training and development, paid specialist coaches in all age groups, superior training facilities, and large rugby budgets.
Shore's strategy is to include rugby in a school-wide program of academic attainment, co-curricular activities, and participation in summer and winter sports.
Rugby is not Shore's raison d'être.
 

Brainstrust

Watty Friend (18)
I can only assume that their focus on rowing is the obvious exception to that total position.


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Armchair Selector

Johnnie Wallace (23)
First time posting here so please be gentle.

I am not a parent nor an old boy of the school but my observation of Shore Rugby is that it is under-resourced and there is little commitment to getting the best out of the boys in any grade.

The capability of the boys coming into year 7 is no different to other GPS schools. Please park the debate about scholarships, its a red herring to this discussion. The difference is the commitment that the school has to training and developing their talent.

My observations of Shore boys who have played Junior Club Rugby is that the gap in ability widens between Shore and other Schools as the boys progress through Secondary School. So its not the boys and its not their Junior Rugby Clubs.

I fully support the importance of a balanced school experience; in Sport, arts and study. The principal may push back saying SHORE is more than just Rugby. Fair enough but they are more than just rowing too and they support that programme!

So here's my two cents worth:

When the GPS Summer sports season finishes, those boys not doing athletics should commence pre-season Winter Sports training. For the purposes of this discussion, I will focus on Rugby. Training should be skills based and focussed on giving them the skills needed to play a position.

Identify the positions that the boys are most suited to playing then train them to play that position!

Keep parents out of it. Grade on ability or demonstrated potential ability not what player x did in Shore prep!

Run internal trials during the GPS Athletics Season and migrate to external trials.

Boys selected for GPS Athletics can return to Rugby trials when the Athletics is finished. Enable them to trial at the level they wish to. They don't have to trial for the As!

Shore need to build a culture of contributing to the success of the school as they have done so well with Rowing. Lacking in Rugby. When you have boys actively seeking to avoid being selected in A teams then you know something needs to change.

Sadly too easy to criticise from afar. A great school with great traditions but seriously needing to redress an imbalance.
 

formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
I can only assume that their focus on rowing is the obvious exception to that total position.


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Don't let "success at" rowing blur your definition of "focus on" rowing. As I understand the Shore student intake selection procedures, there are no rowing scholarships, no junior school selections based on rowing ability, and no senior school entrants who are rowing stars. I don't think the rowers train for rowing during the rugby season.
The "focus' on rowing seems to be on selection from the year 7 cohort, coaching and equipment.
 
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