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NSW CAS Rugby 2020

MagicMike

Stan Wickham (3)
Can someone explain to me how the Mercy rule works?

I recall Joeys would drop players . until it seemed like it was 10 verse 15

But pretty sure that isn’t how it works?

As next week when Waverley plays Aloys I home common sense prevails

There is a duty of care . after all

Agreed SDW. Two issues - first, the upset win by Aloys over Waves last year at QP (Aloys played out of their skins and ambushed a cocky Waves outfit). A desire to win should be about 'justice not vengeance' - if you know what I mean.
Secondly, I don't know how much relief would be provided by bringing on 2nd XV players?
I'll be in a tree somewhere with my binoculars so we'll see how it unfolds.
 

J Walsh

Chris McKivat (8)
Walshy,
Where abouts were you? I was there watching on but couldn't spot you. What a battle it was! Would have been great to have a catch up whilst watching some absolute champagne footy, haven't seen you in ages mate. Of course sticking to the social distancing rules, haha :p

Pooper

At the green council power box thingy. Only a couple of Trinity folk near me.
 

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WLF

Arch Winning (36)
Does anyone associate with these schools know if Trinity or Cranbrook have a 3rds team or beyond?
 

Snort

Trevor Allan (34)
OK, so next Saturday.

The interesting one is Knox v Cranbrook. Logic says Cranbrook, because Cranbrook beat Trinity and Trinity beat Knox. But I think the schools are all pretty similar in standard, and I suspect that, at home, Knox sneaks in. Five points in it either way.

Barker v Trinity. Barker wins. There's a way for Trinity to get up, if they look at what Waverley did and really attack Barker at the scrum - Hawkes could do some damage. But Barker is stronger around the park and should win by about 15.

Waverley v St Aloysius. There's a real question whether this one should even go ahead. Waverley has some large units and is leading the competition. St Aloysius has leaked 142 points in two games. A humane referee would stop the fight in the first round. There's actually another way to do it. I'll bet that Waverley has, in Year 12, a bunch of guys who have tried their guts out at Rugby for six years, and haven't managed to work their way up to the 1st XV. Why not give them a run? Let the top side play the first 20 minutes or so, then let the others have a taste of the jersey. Everyone wins - Waverley wins the points, St Aloysius doesn't get pounded (so much) and a handful of guys get to realise a cherished ambition. Worth a thought. (There's a precedent for this, incidentally. In US college basketball, all the game time tends to be taken up by the scholarship guys. There are other players on the squad, the "walk-ups" who are at college to study, who never get past sitting on the bench. But in the last home game of the season, it was traditional to give game time to the bench-warmers who were in their final year. That's the general idea I have in mind).
 

WLF

Arch Winning (36)
OK, so next Saturday.

The interesting one is Knox v Cranbrook. Logic says Cranbrook, because Cranbrook beat Trinity and Trinity beat Knox. But I think the schools are all pretty similar in standard, and I suspect that, at home, Knox sneaks in. Five points in it either way.

Barker v Trinity. Barker wins. There's a way for Trinity to get up, if they look at what Waverley did and really attack Barker at the scrum - Hawkes could do some damage. But Barker is stronger around the park and should win by about 15.

Waverley v St Aloysius. There's a real question whether this one should even go ahead. Waverley has some large units and is leading the competition. St Aloysius has leaked 142 points in two games. A humane referee would stop the fight in the first round. There's actually another way to do it. I'll bet that Waverley has, in Year 12, a bunch of guys who have tried their guts out at Rugby for six years, and haven't managed to work their way up to the 1st XV. Why not give them a run? Let the top side play the first 20 minutes or so, then let the others have a taste of the jersey. Everyone wins - Waverley wins the points, St Aloysius doesn't get pounded (so much) and a handful of guys get to realise a cherished ambition. Worth a thought. (There's a precedent for this, incidentally. In US college basketball, all the game time tends to be taken up by the scholarship guys. There are other players on the squad, the "walk-ups" who are at college to study, who never get past sitting on the bench. But in the last home game of the season, it was traditional to give game time to the bench-warmers who were in their final year. That's the general idea I have in mind).


You are on the money Snort,

That is exactly what will happen. Someone said to me that a team is only allowed 8 changes in a game?
Can anyone confirm, because that would restrict the plan, and if it is the rule, then surely common sense says it will need to be changed here surely!
 

axel

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Does anyone associate with these schools know if Trinity or Cranbrook have a 3rds team or beyond?
Hi mate. I know Cranbrook go down to the 5ths and I’m pretty sure Trinity only have 2 teams.
 

WLF

Arch Winning (36)
Hi mate. I know Cranbrook go down to the 5ths and I’m pretty sure Trinity only have 2 teams.


Thanks Axe,

That explains it. This week the Waves 3rds are playing Barker 3rds again but at Barker, so Barker 3rds had no Trinity 3rds to play, and Aloys 3rds aren't playing the Waves 3rds instead the Waves 4ths.

Man, there needs to be an amalgamation between the school associations asap.
If you look at this years 13s age groups, which always has the most teams of any age group eg 4+, Aloys have 2, so the writting is on the wall.

Am I being too harsh?
 

Michael_Pooper

Stan Wickham (3)
Does anyone associate with these schools know if Trinity or Cranbrook have a 3rds team or beyond?


My nephew at Trinity tells me that Trinity fielded only a 1st and 2nds team as the headmaster had deemed it unsafe for the rest of the teams to play under current circumstances. The remaining 3s, 4s and 5s teams from cranners had to go up North and play the Knox boys who were also looking for a hit out.
 

Snort

Trevor Allan (34)
Thanks Axe,

That explains it. This week the Waves 3rds are playing Barker 3rds again but at Barker, so Barker 3rds had no Trinity 3rds to play, and Aloys 3rds aren't playing the Waves 3rds instead the Waves 4ths.

Man, there needs to be an amalgamation between the school associations asap.
If you look at this years 13s age groups, which always has the most teams of any age group eg 4+, Aloys have 2, so the writting is on the wall.

Am I being too harsh?


No, this is actually a major part of the problem. It's not just about the 1st XV. That's why I always make the point it should be about the size and ambition of a school's Rugby program. A big part of the problem is the challenge sportsmasters face scheduling decent fixtures each week. As a general rule, schools with six teams in an age group should be grouped with other schools that have the same number of teams (and, as a general rule, their increased depth will result in stronger 1st XVs).

I would actually keep the "traditional" school groupings for representative games. That would allow players from Division 2 schools to make a bid for higher honours. If, say, Waverley and Barker were in Division 1, boys from Trinity or Cranbrook would still be able to play for CAS, although logically fewer would be likely to appear. But guess which two schools would dominate a CAS team this year?
 

Michael_Pooper

Stan Wickham (3)
At the green council power box thingy. Only a couple of Trinity folk near me.

Walshy,
I was around near Yeo park side, must've only just missed you. Trees got in the way of part of field but I had a fairly good view of the cracker of a game unfolding before me. Surely I can't have been too hard to spot with the gut I've put on through this iso ;). Turkish Delights haven't been to kind to me. Which game do you plan on seeing this coming weekend? I'd love to catch up again mate. With our two rugby IQs combined you'd think they'd have us coaching the CAS 1sts side. Let me know mate, hope to see you soon!

Pooper
 

WLF

Arch Winning (36)
No, this is actually a major part of the problem. It's not just about the 1st XV. That's why I always make the point it should be about the size and ambition of a school's Rugby program. A big part of the problem is the challenge sportsmasters face scheduling decent fixtures each week. As a general rule, schools with six teams in an age group should be grouped with other schools that have the same number of teams (and, as a general rule, their increased depth will result in stronger 1st XVs).

I would actually keep the "traditional" school groupings for representative games. That would allow players from Division 2 schools to make a bid for higher honours. If, say, Waverley and Barker were in Division 1, boys from Trinity or Cranbrook would still be able to play for CAS, although logically fewer would be likely to appear. But guess which two schools would dominate a CAS team this year?


Yep Snort, I have previously agreed with your position and suggestions, couldn't agree more!

The real issue here is also clearly a timing issue, these issues are running up at us at 100mph.
If a school has only 2 teams in a 13s age group this year, which is the case, we have less than 6 years to restructure IMO.

Keen to hear from others on this.
 

J Walsh

Chris McKivat (8)
Walshy,
I was around near Yeo park side, must've only just missed you. Trees got in the way of part of field but I had a fairly good view of the cracker of a game unfolding before me. Surely I can't have been too hard to spot with the gut I've put on through this iso ;). Turkish Delights haven't been to kind to me. Which game do you plan on seeing this coming weekend? I'd love to catch up again mate. With our two rugby IQs combined you'd think they'd have us coaching the CAS 1sts side. Let me know mate, hope to see you soon!

Pooper


I'll be watching Brook beat Knox, but not sure of any vantage points which will allow a full view of Knox No.1. Any ideas?
Maybe things have changed since the 80's
 

Michael_Pooper

Stan Wickham (3)
I'll be watching Brook beat Knox, but not sure of any vantage points which will allow a full view of Knox No.1. Any ideas?
Maybe things have changed since the 80's


I think Knox have a restriction on visitors so us old heads may be outside again Walshy. I'm thinking that a good viewing spot could be from the train station which on looks the field opposite the grandstands. Either that or we could sit on the roof of the chapel, haha. Either way I'll have a frothy in my hand.

MP (Moana Pasifika)
 

Iloverucks1

Bob McCowan (2)

Another angle of the trip from WaveCol, I know it is hard to see but you can see the big 18 and Barkers 7s conflict. Waverley is a bit unfortunate to get a yellow here, not that it mattered in the end.

ILR
 

BRUMBIEJACK

Larry Dwyer (12)
Part of the problem with Barker though is they tend to get stronger in the 16s and Opens (I presume as more boys come into the later years, some coincidentally with good rugby pedigrees). Last Saturday Barker for instance only put out three U-13 teams (Waverley had six teams with reserves for each and about half a dozen others unavailable in the age group) and beat Barker in the 13A-13C by a combined 159-15, in the 14s 91-12 in three games, and in the 15s 150-19 in three games. I would argue that Waverley may well be alone in the CAS in being able to go head to head with most if not all GPS schools in all age groups, rather than just the top Opens/16s teams.

The problem with including schools who may have a few strong senior sides is that the junior kids will get mauled and perhaps be lost to the game, while the bigger schools won't be happy about playing a school who can only put out three 13s teams for instance. The leadership of schools like Barker would have to buy into building up their junior teams (in numbers and ability) if they wanted to be in a 'Division 1' structure I would have thought. Given their larger cohorts Knox tend to put out quite a few more teams in each age group and they may be a more natural fit.

It just goes to show you how difficult a proposal for a tiered competition is when you start looking past the results in the firsts.


No, this is actually a major part of the problem. It's not just about the 1st XV. That's why I always make the point it should be about the size and ambition of a school's Rugby program. A big part of the problem is the challenge sportsmasters face scheduling decent fixtures each week. As a general rule, schools with six teams in an age group should be grouped with other schools that have the same number of teams (and, as a general rule, their increased depth will result in stronger 1st XVs).

I would actually keep the "traditional" school groupings for representative games. That would allow players from Division 2 schools to make a bid for higher honours. If, say, Waverley and Barker were in Division 1, boys from Trinity or Cranbrook would still be able to play for CAS, although logically fewer would be likely to appear. But guess which two schools would dominate a CAS team this year?
 

Mr Serious

Peter Burge (5)
I think Knox have a restriction on visitors so us old heads may be outside again Walshy. I'm thinking that a good viewing spot could be from the train station which on looks the field opposite the grandstands. Either that or we could sit on the roof of the chapel, haha. Either way I'll have a frothy in my hand.

MP (Moana Pasifika)

Sounds like a plan lads, I will also be there. Hoping to pinch one of the Cranbrook boarders and pass as their guardian to get let into the school HA HA, worse comes to worse ill be up on the chapel roof with you fellas with a possible tinny in hand. Looking forward to watching this cracking game, I hear Knox have a new scholarship flyhalf from Warringah/St Augustines who is quite the player so will be a good number 10 match up this week after watching Cranbrooks number 10 last week terrorise trinity with his brilliant kicking game. Does anyone know if the young year 10 indigenous inside centre Jarah has got a run on yet in their 1st side after training with them all year round last year?

Mr S :)
 

Hasbeen

Bob Loudon (25)
Part of the problem with Barker though is they tend to get stronger in the 16s and Opens (I presume as more boys come into the later years, some coincidentally with good rugby pedigrees). Last Saturday Barker for instance only put out three U-13 teams (Waverley had six teams with reserves for each and about half a dozen others unavailable in the age group) and beat Barker in the 13A-13C by a combined 159-15, in the 14s 91-12 in three games, and in the 15s 150-19 in three games. I would argue that Waverley may well be alone in the CAS in being able to go head to head with most if not all GPS schools in all age groups, rather than just the top Opens/16s teams.

The problem with including schools who may have a few strong senior sides is that the junior kids will get mauled and perhaps be lost to the game, while the bigger schools won't be happy about playing a school who can only put out three 13s teams for instance. The leadership of schools like Barker would have to buy into building up their junior teams (in numbers and ability) if they wanted to be in a 'Division 1' structure I would have thought. Given their larger cohorts Knox tend to put out quite a few more teams in each age group and they may be a more natural fit.

It just goes to show you how difficult a proposal for a tiered competition is when you start looking past the results in the firsts.

I agree that is a big issue but these things can be cyclical. The current lack of players in the younger age groups at Barker is a function of the then prevailing (mainly maternal) attitudes to Rugby from 7-8 years ago. Then the school starts winning and the attitudes seem to change. The numbers of youngsters in the junior school playing Rugby I am told has increased substantially. So in another few years there may well be greater depth in team age groups. Rugby at Barker is and always has been the glory sport, something that the other codes have not achieved. The next few years in Schoolboy Rugby will be interesting.
 

WLF

Arch Winning (36)
Part of the problem with Barker though is they tend to get stronger in the 16s and Opens (I presume as more boys come into the later years, some coincidentally with good rugby pedigrees). Last Saturday Barker for instance only put out three U-13 teams (Waverley had six teams with reserves for each and about half a dozen others unavailable in the age group) and beat Barker in the 13A-13C by a combined 159-15, in the 14s 91-12 in three games, and in the 15s 150-19 in three games. I would argue that Waverley may well be alone in the CAS in being able to go head to head with most if not all GPS schools in all age groups, rather than just the top Opens/16s teams.

The problem with including schools who may have a few strong senior sides is that the junior kids will get mauled and perhaps be lost to the game, while the bigger schools won't be happy about playing a school who can only put out three 13s teams for instance. The leadership of schools like Barker would have to buy into building up their junior teams (in numbers and ability) if they wanted to be in a 'Division 1' structure I would have thought. Given their larger cohorts Knox tend to put out quite a few more teams in each age group and they may be a more natural fit.

It just goes to show you how difficult a proposal for a tiered competition is when you start looking past the results in the firsts.


Agree BJ,

However it is already getting very complicated trying to get games for teams as each school has different depth in grades.
For example, this week Waves are scheduled to play Aloys and within the 20 Waves teams they will be playing 6 different schools, so not sure if a divisional system would be any more difficult.

A divisional system would allow schools to match up by age groups more appropriately,and have the surety of the number of competing schools for that season. A school wouldn't have to have all age teams anchored in the same grade either, it could be based on the strength of that age group.
A relegation system could be used to align teams each year.

I believe this type of system is what happens in NZ.

If we don't move to a new system, then very soon some schools will not be able to really contribute to an association going forward. Then if the school numbers become drastically uneven, which is the case now , each week byes will be necessary, or as already happens some teams keep playing the same teams over and over.

The answer probably isn't that easy but a solution can't be too hard, we are not going to the moon.
 

red screws

Frank Row (1)
OK, so next Saturday.

The interesting one is Knox v Cranbrook. Logic says Cranbrook, because Cranbrook beat Trinity and Trinity beat Knox. But I think the schools are all pretty similar in standard, and I suspect that, at home, Knox sneaks in. Five points in it either way.

Barker v Trinity. Barker wins. There's a way for Trinity to get up, if they look at what Waverley did and really attack Barker at the scrum - Hawkes could do some damage. But Barker is stronger around the park and should win by about 15.

Waverley v St Aloysius. There's a real question whether this one should even go ahead. Waverley has some large units and is leading the competition. St Aloysius has leaked 142 points in two games. A humane referee would stop the fight in the first round. There's actually another way to do it. I'll bet that Waverley has, in Year 12, a bunch of guys who have tried their guts out at Rugby for six years, and haven't managed to work their way up to the 1st XV. Why not give them a run? Let the top side play the first 20 minutes or so, then let the others have a taste of the jersey. Everyone wins - Waverley wins the points, St Aloysius doesn't get pounded (so much) and a handful of guys get to realise a cherished ambition. Worth a thought. (There's a precedent for this, incidentally. In US college basketball, all the game time tends to be taken up by the scholarship guys. There are other players on the squad, the "walk-ups" who are at college to study, who never get past sitting on the bench. But in the last home game of the season, it was traditional to give game time to the bench-warmers who were in their final year. That's the general idea I have in mind).



will be a exciting game down at knox with cranbrook slowly making themselves as a viable side.
I was watching the game down at summer hill, I only stayed for the first half with the uncomfortable conditions had to call it early.
standouts for cranbrook was the 6 for me. Ill be surprised with him not being in the CAS jersey this season with his high game sense and great line speed defence, also looked dangerous every-time he got on the left edge.

I got the brook winning this holding on in the last minutes 29-25
 
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