NSW Schools Debating 2023

[The Bait]

Do rep teams have defined speaking roles or can coaches mix around speakers? Quite a few speakers on this list speak positions other than what they've been listed as (Nikki Han, Alexia Rigoni, Michael Kwak etc). Also given Michael Kwak was in state team, surely coaches put him 2nd or 3rd?

Not sure if they mix around speaker positions within the team. Though sometimes speakers are selected outside of their usual position ie might be a third in your team and you get selected as second in reps.
You raise good points re some of the speakers. Was tossing up in CHS , think Darshanik has to be 3rd but Alexia and Anhaar could easily swap speaker positions. Re GPS Jehiel was also a state speaker felt he could be third. Thought I read that Michael spoke as first at nationals but yes he could be second speaker. If so, would be tough to fit in Daniel so they’d probably pick Kasra from Grammar as first. For IGSA again they could swap around, not aware of a strong third in that division. Are there any speakers you think are missing from the list ?

 

[Romanforum]

I think it is worth noting that the kids who were the best in March may not still be the best kids come June and those kids may not be the best ones come August/September. Some teams dramatically improve and some get worse. It is hard to make state and school selections when skill level changes so frequently. There is no way of telling who will improve so the selectors just have to take who was best at the time of selection and hope for the best.

Well said. And that is why the rep season is always exciting. I generally agree with the sentiment that the rep teams contain the best 12 or so in NSW, with the NSW team making up 6 of the 12 places.

 

[fact checker]

Not sure if they mix around speaker positions within the team. Though sometimes speakers are selected outside of their usual position ie might be a third in your team and you get selected as second in reps.
You raise good points re some of the speakers. Was tossing up in CHS , think Darshanik has to be 3rd but Alexia and Anhaar could easily swap speaker positions. Re GPS Jehiel was also a state speaker felt he could be third. Thought I read that Michael spoke as first at nationals but yes he could be second speaker. If so, would be tough to fit in Daniel so they’d probably pick Kasra from Grammar as first. For IGSA again they could swap around, not aware of a strong third in that division. Are there any speakers you think are missing from the list ?

Not too familiar with a specialising third in GPS or IGSA either - either way strong speakers can speak more than one position so I'm sure it won't impact too much on their strength. Correct me if I'm wrong but traditionally Year 11s on the state team have nearly always spoken first or (rarely second) while the team captain third. So Michael might be put as a second speaker or even third if he's in the 2nds for Reps

 

[Romanforum]

CAS debating kicks off Friday night.

Knox should beat an improving Waverley.

Aloysius should account for Trinity

The interesting match up is Cranbrook v. Barker. Cranbrook was surging into the ISDA finals having beaten Joeys then Knox before losing to Aloysius. Barker is missing their best speaker to Worlds. Whilst I still tip Barker, a Cranbrook win would not surprise given they’re a team on the way up.

 

[BringHomeTheBacon]

On rep teams - rebuttal wins debates, cases win trophies.

Debates between good teams on fair topics pretty much always come down to who has the better case and strategy, but I think all debate-based rep team trials reward style over substance as although you can see who the smoothest speakers are, it's difficult to assess casewriting ability. Having a good case means that although your team may not give the best speeches in the debate, they will still end up winning - and I would suggest the reason why Grammar and Sydney Boys this year (and Joeys last year) have beaten some more fancied teams with state speakers is their casewriting ability (this is actually an interesting historical trend, having a state team member has been no guarantee of winning competitions over the last decade). While an adjudicator focusing on who wins the debate will probably recognise that (even if they don't have the best manner), someone trialling a team is probably more focused on individual speeches rather than who actually wins, meaning they're more likely to value the kid who sounds right, uses the right buzzwords, or has good structure and polish, rather than the kid with the cleverest ideas.

For example, every year NSW sends the best team of any state to NSDC (this year was no exception, Darshanik, Iris, Michael, and Jehiel are each brilliant, amazing, genius speakers who rightfully broke first, what a freaking team), but we don't always win.

A crazy left field idea I had was instead of picking the best 4 speakers, picking the best 2 speakers and the next best 2 casewriters?

Anyway, this is a truly incredible year for NSW school debating across all comps, perhaps the most evenly competitive with the most contenders ever. Aloys to win CAS undefeated, Grammar/High to share GPS 6-1, SCEGGS to win Archdale, CHS to win reps.

 

[Asdyjftj]

A crazy left field idea I had was instead of picking the best 4 speakers, picking the best 2 speakers and the next best 2 casewriters?

Hardly a crazy left-field idea - however there tends to be a pretty strong correlation between the quality of speeches you give and case writing ability - though there certainly are exceptions. However, it tends to take a good while before you can truly tell how good at case writing someone is. Not clear to me that you'd need the best 2.

 

[The Bait]

BringhometheBacon makes some pretty good points. Case writing provides a good foundation for the win with fair topics. Think there’s value in judges somehow observing the prep room when trialling for State / rep as part of their overall assessment. Often the case prep falls to the third due to time constraints so would have to take that into account if observing.

 

[fact checker]

Not sure if it's even possible to assess case writing ability in the time available but obviously a good idea.

BringhometheBacon makes some pretty good points. Case writing provides a good foundation for the win with fair topics. Think there’s value in judges somehow observing the prep room when trialling for State / rep as part of their overall assessment. Often the case prep falls to the third due to time constraints so would have to take that into account if observing.

Also I doubt case prep falls to the thirds at all. In fact, in a trial situation, the marker of who a good case prepper is would surely be the performance of the first speaker. As first speakers might have to write more of the case by themselves without their team contributing as they normally might in a school team..

 

[The Bait]

Not sure if it's even possible to assess case writing ability in the time available but obviously a good idea.

Also I doubt case prep falls to the thirds at all. In fact, in a trial situation, the marker of who a good case prepper is would surely be the performance of the first speaker. As first speakers might have to write more of the case by themselves without their team contributing as they normally might in a school team..

Yes that’s true in a trial situation. Different dynamic for school.

 

[ImportsRuinGPS]

Thanks. Here are my predictions in speaker order for the firsts rep teams. Welcome any feedback.

CHS:
1st Speaker: Anhaar Kareem (SGHS)
2nd: Alexia Rigoni (Cammeraygal)
3rd: Darshanik Aryal (Ruse)

GPS:
1st: Michael Kwak (Shore)
2nd: Daniel Lloyd-Hurwitz (Grammar)
3rd: Jehiel Pather (Scots)
So an all year 11 team.

CAS:
1st: Eammon O’Loughlin (Aloysius)
2nd: Iris Lee (Barker)
3rd: Christian Mossati (Aloysius)

IGSA:
1st; Helena Piazza (SCEGGS)
2nd: Charlotte Allan (Abbotsleigh)
3rd: Nikki Han ( Queenwood)

Anyone game to predict the winner ? It’s bursting with talent this year.

And IMO, these kids represent the top debating talent in NSW.

respectfully, I disagree. Here are my predictions in speaker order for the GPS 1sts team. Welcome any feedback.

GPS:
1st: Lawson Banks (Shore 3rds)
2nd: Charlie Ashton (Shore 4ths)
3rd: Alex Mingay (Shore 4ths)
4th Ramon Zhang (Shore 3rds)
Reserve: Alex Dowling (Shore 4ths snub)

Cheers,
The Fifth Speaker

 

[The Bait]

PDC semis look like Cammeraygal v Smiths Hill and High v SGHS.

 

[fact checker]

respectfully, I disagree. Here are my predictions in speaker order for the GPS 1sts team. Welcome any feedback.

GPS:
1st: Lawson Banks (Shore 3rds)
2nd: Charlie Ashton (Shore 4ths)
3rd: Alex Mingay (Shore 4ths)
4th Ramon Zhang (Shore 3rds)
Reserve: Alex Dowling (Shore 4ths snub)

Cheers,
The Fifth Speaker

What kind of ridiculous foolishness is this? Had this forum been raided by schoolboy "trolls" again? A comment made in jest for sure but a blatant post of disrespect to the other rep debaters. Who is this mysterious 5th speaker? Makes quite little sense.

 

[GPSspectator]

PDC semis look like Cammeraygal v Smiths Hill and High v SGHS.

Interesting to note that it's SGHS Yr 11s not Yr 12s. SGHS's two teams actually faced each other in the PDC quarters with SGHS Yr 11s reportedly winning clearly. In terms of predicting the results of the semis, I think these are two relatively close debates but I do think each have clear favourites.

Cammeraygal vs Smiths Hill is the debate I know less about. Smiths Hill and this Smiths Hill team in particular are pretty successful (this team was in the yr 10 PDC finals). However, I don't think they have any major standout talent which I do think will be a problem when they face Cammeraygal who have State Reserve and CHS 2nds Rep Alexia Rigoni. I do think that Cammeraygal's consistency across the team could be a problem but given that they are the only team left who hasn't lost a debate, I think that they should be good to go into the finals.

Now High vs SGHS should be a very competitive and interesting debate and I think that no matter who wins this, they should be favourites heading into the finals. In terms of prediction, do I go with the team with Year 11 State Reserve Anhaar Kareem and who have 3 members in CHS or the team with CHS 2nds Rep Abrar Chowdhury (and possibly one more CHS member?). I think High will win, they've faced stronger opposition including Ruse (with Nationals Captain Darshanik Aryal) who they beat twice which at the very least, signals a high level of consistency across both debates and speakers. Also, from a selfish standpoint I really want to see the presumably GPS 1st Grade team from SBHS given that they are the team we know the least about.

Overall, I'd predict High beating Cammeraygal in the Final but honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see any of these four teams in the final. Looking forward to seeing it in person!

 

[The Bait]

Anyone have an update on CAS results or can share the results tab ?

 

[Romanforum]

Interesting to note that it's SGHS Yr 11s not Yr 12s. SGHS's two teams actually faced each other in the PDC quarters with SGHS Yr 11s reportedly winning clearly. In terms of predicting the results of the semis, I think these are two relatively close debates but I do think each have clear favourites.

Cammeraygal vs Smiths Hill is the debate I know less about. Smiths Hill and this Smiths Hill team in particular are pretty successful (this team was in the yr 10 PDC finals). However, I don't think they have any major standout talent which I do think will be a problem when they face Cammeraygal who have State Reserve and CHS 2nds Rep Alexia Rigoni. I do think that Cammeraygal's consistency across the team could be a problem but given that they are the only team left who hasn't lost a debate, I think that they should be good to go into the finals.

Now High vs SGHS should be a very competitive and interesting debate and I think that no matter who wins this, they should be favourites heading into the finals. In terms of prediction, do I go with the team with Year 11 State Reserve Anhaar Kareem and who have 3 members in CHS or the team with CHS 2nds Rep Abrar Chowdhury (and possibly one more CHS member?). I think High will win, they've faced stronger opposition including Ruse (with Nationals Captain Darshanik Aryal) who they beat twice which at the very least, signals a high level of consistency across both debates and speakers. Also, from a selfish standpoint I really want to see the presumably GPS 1st Grade team from SBHS given that they are the team we know the least about.

Overall, I'd predict High beating Cammeraygal in the Final but honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see any of these four teams in the final. Looking forward to seeing it in person!

What a great write up. Hope to see more of these previews for the GPS season. What a match up indeed, Year 11 SGHS v Year 12 High. More than a grand final spot is at stake, bragging rights on the line for sure for these 2 neighbour schools.

 

[Romanforum]

Anyone have an update on CAS results or can share the results tab ?

I would like to know this as well, interested in tracking Cranbrook’s progress given their strong finish to ISDA.

 

[Debater]

Thanks. Here are my predictions in speaker order for the firsts rep teams. Welcome any feedback.

IGSA:
1st; Helena Piazza (SCEGGS)
2nd: Charlotte Allan (Abbotsleigh)
3rd: Nikki Han ( Queenwood)

I think some of the people you mentioned for IGSA are no longer debating. Some IGSA schools have two different teams for ISDA and Archdale firsts, usually where the year 12s finish their high school debating careers at the end of ISDA.

 

[Debater]

Any predictions for Friday night?​

 

[Asdyjftj]

Any predictions for Friday night?​

High v Newington & Grammar v Kings: Pretty obvious High and Grammar victories here given how the teams performed in ISDA.

Riverview v Scots: Definitely the closest debate IMO. Given the head-to-head, you'd have to favour Scots. However, Riverview have made changes to their team and Scots have struggled with the strength of their bench. I'm more inclined to give it to whichever team ends up negating, so a bit more of a coin toss than one might think.

Joeys v Shore: Not as close as the SB v N or SG v K but Joeys a clear favourite, however, I've heard they're not the best at case construction so we'll see.

 

[GAS]

Preview Round 2 CAS and Round 1 GPS:

CAS:

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cas2023.calicotab.com

Cranbrook vs Knox:
The ISDA Octo Final Rematch is here! Cranbrook ended the ISDA team on a high note by eliminating Knox, so they are hoping to repeat their success. However, they lost to a weakened Barker team which is a cause for concern for the boys from Bellevue Hill. Knox is tipped to have a strong lineup, making this round the most anticipated one. This round should tell us if Knox have a chance at winning the competition. The odds though are in favour of Cranbrook at 60/40.

Barker vs Trinity:
It is unwise to underestimate Trinity, who have recently taken an adjudicator from the impressive Aloys juggernaut. Rumours suggest that Trinity have also made changes to their lineup. However, it is worth noting that Barker have a speaker from the NSW team, and their ISDA performances make them a clear favourite. Barker at 90/10.

Waverly vs Aloys:
Could Aloys be surprised by losing an adjudicator to Trinity? Nevertheless, they will strive to rebound and win this debate by a significant margin. Aloys would also be aiming to have at least 2 speakers looking to make it onto the firsts representatives' team. Aloys at 95/5

GPS:

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gps2023.calicotab.com

Joeys vs Shore:
With Joeys making a Semi-Final and Shore making a Quater-Final this is certainly one of the most highly anticipated matchups. There are rumours that Shore will make changes to their line-up that could result in an interesting outcome, particularly if their NSW speaker is included. However, Matt Toomey's reigning GPS Champions appear to be strong and poised to begin their campaign for the Premiership with a victory. Joeys at 75/25. (I must admit, I am a supporter of Joeys, so there may be some bias on my part.)

Riverview vs Scots:
This is going to be a tough match-up as both Scots and Riverview have made significant changes to their ISDA lineups, with Riverview looking to bring home a trophy this season. I suspect Scots might face some difficulties against Riverview, who have a very strong team, including a 2022 Representatives speaker (the only one) who will be hoping to take them to victory. Although Scots is a formidable team, defeating Riverview would be a significant upset. Riverview at 70/30.

Sydney Boys vs Newington:
It appears that Sydney Boys is highly regarded, despite having not broken in Eastside this year. Nevertheless, their success in PDC debates against teams like Ruse shows that they remain a formidable force. Newington may face difficulties. Sydney Boys at 95/5.

Grammar vs Kings:
The Grammar Titan is the easy favourite to win this competition, boasting the strongest speakers out of any of the GPS Schools, with the exception of Joeys possibly. Grammar at 100/0.

Overall looking to be an exciting week of debating; good luck to all teams involved.