NSW Schools Debating 2023

[fact checker]

Preview Round 2 CAS and Round 1 GPS:

CAS:

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Cranbrook vs Knox:
The ISDA Octo Final Rematch is here! Cranbrook ended the ISDA team on a high note by eliminating Knox, so they are hoping to repeat their success. However, they lost to a weakened Barker team which is a cause for concern for the boys from Bellevue Hill. Knox is tipped to have a strong lineup, making this round the most anticipated one. This round should tell us if Knox have a chance at winning the competition. The odds though are in favour of Cranbrook at 60/40.

Barker vs Trinity:
It is unwise to underestimate Trinity, who have recently taken an adjudicator from the impressive Aloys juggernaut. Rumours suggest that Trinity have also made changes to their lineup. However, it is worth noting that Barker have a speaker from the NSW team, and their ISDA performances make them a clear favourite. Barker at 90/10.

Waverly vs Aloys:
Could Aloys be surprised by losing an adjudicator to Trinity? Nevertheless, they will strive to rebound and win this debate by a significant margin. Aloys would also be aiming to have at least 2 speakers looking to make it onto the firsts representatives' team. Aloys at 95/5

GPS:

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Joeys vs Shore:
With Joeys making a Semi-Final and Shore making a Quater-Final this is certainly one of the most highly anticipated matchups. There are rumours that Shore will make changes to their line-up that could result in an interesting outcome, particularly if their NSW speaker is included. However, Matt Toomey's reigning GPS Champions appear to be strong and poised to begin their campaign for the Premiership with a victory. Joeys at 75/25. (I must admit, I am a supporter of Joeys, so there may be some bias on my part.)

Riverview vs Scots:
This is going to be a tough match-up as both Scots and Riverview have made significant changes to their ISDA lineups, with Riverview looking to bring home a trophy this season. I suspect Scots might face some difficulties against Riverview, who have a very strong team, including a 2022 Representatives speaker (the only one) who will be hoping to take them to victory. Although Scots is a formidable team, defeating Riverview would be a significant upset. Riverview at 70/30.

Sydney Boys vs Newington:
It appears that Sydney Boys is highly regarded, despite having not broken in Eastside this year. Nevertheless, their success in PDC debates against teams like Ruse shows that they remain a formidable force. Newington may face difficulties. Sydney Boys at 95/5.

Grammar vs Kings:
The Grammar Titan is the easy favourite to win this competition, boasting the strongest speakers out of any of the GPS Schools, with the exception of Joeys possibly. Grammar at 100/0.

Overall looking to be an exciting week of debating; good luck to all teams involved.

Great write up... would agree but would maybe put shore up higher given their quarter finals run (eventually losing to ISDA champions grammar). Also don't know where the Riverview hype is coming from. Scots has a state speaker and made the quarter finals (losing to a full strength Barker team). Also heard they're bringing a stronger roster with the Eastside speakers joining the team. I would have Scots as favourites against Riverview..

 

[canelo]

Archdale Topic Round 6: That we regret the re-branding of Barbie as a feminist role model

 

[Debater]

Archdale Topic Round 6: That we regret the re-branding of Barbie as a feminist role model

This is a great topic. Would make for a good GPS round 6 topic.

 

[Asdyjftj]

Archdale Topic Round 6: That we regret the re-branding of Barbie as a feminist role model

This is a great topic. Would make for a good GPS round 6 topic.

I think without notice the use of regret motions/other motion types will inevitably lead to bad quality debates, especially without firm guidance as to the requirements of the motion type.

 

[GPSspectator]

So a Cammeraygal vs SGHS Yr 11 PDC Final (at least I got one right). Congrats to Smiths Hill and SBHS for making it so far and in terms of predictions, I don't have too much too add, I said the favourite for the final would be whoever won SBHS vs SGHS and I stick to that, SGHS to beat Cammeraygal in a close final. Good luck to both teams, I'm looking forward to the debate.

 

[DebatingNerd]

Grammar vs Kings:
The Grammar Titan is the easy favourite to win this competition, boasting the strongest speakers out of any of the GPS Schools, with the exception of Joeys possibly. Grammar at 100/0.

Overall looking to be an exciting week of debating; good luck to all teams involved.

Agree with the calls but 100/0 is such a grim call and is unnecessary and demoralising for the kids too.

Also, with GPS and CAS kicking off we should get Reps coming out with noms being done. Not sure about when IGSA will get trials done/announce squad - it'd be appreciated if someone here could keep us updated here when they do.

Also, would someone mind starting a shared space on which we can all keep track of the GPS season just like we did for ISDA earlier this year?

 

[Debater]

Also, would someone mind starting a shared space on which we can all keep track of the GPS season just like we did for ISDA earlier this year?

I think GPS should have a fully updated tab this season so there should be no need to create another unofficial tab.

gps2023.calicotab.com

 

[DebatingNerd]

I think GPS should have a fully updated tab this season so there should be no need to create another unofficial tab.

gps2023.calicotab.com

You are right indeed. My bad, mind blank.

 

[GPSspectator]

Interesting topic for round 1 GPS: This house regrets the increase in ADHD diagnoses, and medication of those diagnosed, amongst senior high school students.

 

[DebatingNerd]

Interesting topic for round 1 GPS: This house regrets the increase in ADHD diagnoses, and medication of those diagnosed, amongst senior high school students.

Fantastic motion. Great Aff and Neg. Not the most education-based topic but still tied to the topic area so it provides a good challenge for even better teams. Hopefully motions continue to be of this standard throughout the competition!

 

[Asdyjftj]

Fantastic motion. Great Aff and Neg. Not the most education-based topic but still tied to the topic area so it provides a good challenge for even better teams. Hopefully motions continue to be of this standard throughout the competition!

Personally, I'm of the opinion that getting kids to debate the validity of mental health diagnoses/treatments is not actually an ideal topic. If the topic was that we regret spina bifida or depression diagnoses would it be seen as appropriate/acceptable? It fundamentally relies on the premise that ADHD or a portion who suffer from ADHD are faking it/illegitimately using medication or getting diagnosed. While it is possible this is the case, that discussion should be taking place amongst psychiatrists and psychologists, not HS students who likely don't even know what the DSM-V is.

Insofar as hs kids are highly unlikely to have a properly informed understanding of ADHD it essentially necessitates a strawman debate about ADHD. While I think that this is maybe acceptable at a university level (where teams can veto topics, and individuals who suffer from ADHD probably have a pretty informed understanding of their own condition) I'm not so confident it is appropriate for open hs debaters. In saying that, I do think the new CA is doing a great job and the other 3 topics were great. There has been a bit of a trend this year of treating mental health as a debating topic area and I'm not so sure that is a great idea.

 

[canelo]

Archdale Tally as of R6

 

[GPSspectator]

Some upsets in both GPS and CAS 1sts. High, Grammar and Barker (although with a 2-1 split) took care of business against weaker Newington, Kings and Trinity squads respectively. Minor upsets, with Scots defeating Riverview on a less intuitive Aff which should cement them as a contender this year and Knox defeating Cranbrook probably places them as a strong 3rd at a minimum. Now the big upsets were Aloys (said to be the best team in NSW) losing to Waverly and Joeys (clear 2nd favourites to win GPS) losing to Shore. Both of those upsets will drastically shake up their respective competitions and pose questions for the Aloys and Joeys squads. With that said, let's get into my predictions for the upcoming week.

GPS:

Joeys vs Grammar
This should easily be the debate of the round, Joeys will be looking to avoid a horror 0-2 start while Grammar will be looking to cement themselves as favourites to win the comp. Despite their loss, Joeys are still a very strong squad who won GPS last year and should be pretty consistent. But Grammar are of course the ISDA champions with exceptional depth in their speakers. It's still early in GPS so I won't be too harsh on Joeys for their loss but even if they had beat Shore, I'd still have Grammar as favourites.
Grammar at 80/20

Kings vs High
High beat a weak Newington squad and Kings lost to Grammar so no surprises from the first round. Kings are one of the weaker schools this year and High has a CHS 2nds rep from last year and at 3 CHS reps this year (I'm told teams aren't decided yet). High always has a bit of an easy start to the schedule and should be starting 2-0 here.
High at 90/10

Riverview vs Shore
This debate is a lot closer after the results of week 1. Riverview losing to Scots and Shore beating a strong Joeys (presumably with State Speaker Michael Kwak now in 1st grade) for makes this a close debate for me. I don't know how unpopular this will be but I'm going to put
Shore at 60/40

Scots vs Newington
There's very little to say. Scots should be a candidate this year with their State Speaker and Newington are one of the weaker squads this year.
Scots at 90/10


CAS:

Knox vs Barker:
The two undefeated teams face off but I think one of these teams is quite a bit better than the other. Barker has a nationals reserve and had a very successful ISDA run. I think they should be able to beat Knox although I wouldn't count Knox completely out.
Barker at 85/15

Aloys vs Cranbrook:
I'm treating Aloys loss to Waverly as mostly a freak accident given their outstanding ISDA run. I think they're still incredibly strong and probably still favourites to win CAS. They'll definitely be looking to recover from Waverly and I expect a strong performance against Cranbrook.
Aloys at 85/15

Trinity vs Waverly:
Yeah I don't really know much about these teams. Waverly's win against Aloys at least signals they should be somewhat good to beat them on an off day. I don't have much other information to judge these schools off.
Waverly at 65/35

 

[Asdyjftj]

Lest we forget that it's not entirely about the opens, # of wins across all divisions after round 1:

High​	8​
Grammar, Shore, Riverview​	7​
Scots, Joeys, Kings​	3​
Newington​	2​

​

Obviously too early for any super meaningful analysis, but interesting to see the distribution. Looks like Joeys are continuing to struggle in the younger years. Kings and Newington continue to struggle full stop. I suspect the huge program at Scots (5 kids per team, a gigantic number of kids not in competitions) might be hurting their results.

​

 

[ggregan_89]

Archdale Tally as of R6

Thanks for this gem! They have been just atrocious at updating the Archdale website.

Looking at the results Ascham, Queenwood, Santa Sabina and SCEGGS are all contenders, with Abbotsleigh as slight favourites. Interesting to note that Ravenswood won Y10 last season with Queenwood as runner-up.

Any predictions?

 

[Romanforum]

Some upsets in both GPS and CAS 1sts. High, Grammar and Barker (although with a 2-1 split) took care of business against weaker Newington, Kings and Trinity squads respectively. Minor upsets, with Scots defeating Riverview on a less intuitive Aff which should cement them as a contender this year and Knox defeating Cranbrook probably places them as a strong 3rd at a minimum. Now the big upsets were Aloys (said to be the best team in NSW) losing to Waverly and Joeys (clear 2nd favourites to win GPS) losing to Shore. Both of those upsets will drastically shake up their respective competitions and pose questions for the Aloys and Joeys squads. With that said, let's get into my predictions for the upcoming week.

GPS:

Joeys vs Grammar
This should easily be the debate of the round, Joeys will be looking to avoid a horror 0-2 start while Grammar will be looking to cement themselves as favourites to win the comp. Despite their loss, Joeys are still a very strong squad who won GPS last year and should be pretty consistent. But Grammar are of course the ISDA champions with exceptional depth in their speakers. It's still early in GPS so I won't be too harsh on Joeys for their loss but even if they had beat Shore, I'd still have Grammar as favourites.
Grammar at 80/20

Kings vs High
High beat a weak Newington squad and Kings lost to Grammar so no surprises from the first round. Kings are one of the weaker schools this year and High has a CHS 2nds rep from last year and at 3 CHS reps this year (I'm told teams aren't decided yet). High always has a bit of an easy start to the schedule and should be starting 2-0 here.
High at 90/10

Riverview vs Shore
This debate is a lot closer after the results of week 1. Riverview losing to Scots and Shore beating a strong Joeys (presumably with State Speaker Michael Kwak now in 1st grade) for makes this a close debate for me. I don't know how unpopular this will be but I'm going to put
Shore at 60/40

Scots vs Newington
There's very little to say. Scots should be a candidate this year with their State Speaker and Newington are one of the weaker squads this year.
Scots at 90/10


CAS:

Knox vs Barker:
The two undefeated teams face off but I think one of these teams is quite a bit better than the other. Barker has a nationals reserve and had a very successful ISDA run. I think they should be able to beat Knox although I wouldn't count Knox completely out.
Barker at 85/15

Aloys vs Cranbrook:
I'm treating Aloys loss to Waverly as mostly a freak accident given their outstanding ISDA run. I think they're still incredibly strong and probably still favourites to win CAS. They'll definitely be looking to recover from Waverly and I expect a strong performance against Cranbrook.
Aloys at 85/15

Trinity vs Waverly:
Yeah I don't really know much about these teams. Waverly's win against Aloys at least signals they should be somewhat good to beat them on an off day. I don't have much other information to judge these schools off.
Waverly at 65/35

These previews are fantastic, as are those by GAS. Please keep them coming. Looking forward to your PDC season wrap up should you choose to do one.

 

[DebatingNerd]

These previews are fantastic, as are those by GAS. Please keep them coming. Looking forward to your PDC season wrap up should you choose to do one.

Here it is for all interested:

Sydney Girls Year 11 with NSW State Reserve Anhaar Kareem won PDC and the Hume Barbour Trophy this year – placing them as favourites to win again next year as Y12’s. I believe they also won last year in the Y10 division so it’ll be interesting to see if they pull of a 3-peat. Anhaar seems to have plenty of talent to offer the NSW side next year (obvs if she makes it) who will be seeking to end a 3-year drought of no National Premierships – especially given she will no doubt grow in the next 9 months as the NSDC crops up once more.

They versed Cammeraygal side with NSW State Reserve Alexia Rigoni in the Final. The team put up an absolutely phenomenal effort and should be incredibly proud of how well they have done this year.

Congratulations to Smiths Hill and Sydney Boys – traditional PDC powerhouses – for making the Semi Finals. Some highlights include the quarters consisted of SG and Smiths Hill cannibalism rounds with the SG Y11 team beating out their Y12 team and SHHS 12 beating 11.

Another highlight is Sydney Boys pulling off two monster upsets against a James Ruse Y12 team with the Australian and NSW Captain Darshanik Aryal. A team who I actually initially pitted as – by honestly quite a big margin – the clear and most likely side to win Hume Barbour this year. Even though debating is clearly not a one-person endeavour, the Ruse team this year was deep in talent too with Iqra Razzak also on the CHS 1s winning team last year. It has also shaken up GPS predictions too with the SB team finding form later in the year after a disappointing Eastside run. Someone else has pointed out Eastside results are never indicative of their later performance. We’ll see if they can carry this momentum into the GPS season with an easy first few rounds – facing The King’s School this Friday.

Also, another highlight is the fact that there seems to be more Smiths Hill Talent to look out for. Every few years the school provides an especially exceptional high school talent. Ava Roberts on the team is only in Year 11. Last year she was the first Year 10 to make the CHS reps team (to my knowledge) and made CHS seconds as well. She may go on to achieve much more next year and pit a very firm resistance against the SG side next year that will be looking for a 3-peat.

The big winners from this season are: SGHS, Cammeraygal, SBHS and Smiths Hill

 

[canelo]

Archdale Shield Tally after prelims

 

[Romanforum]

Archdale Shield Tally after prelims

Group C has 4 of the top 7 in it. Some interesting and close match ups coming up. Does anyone have insights on the top talent likely to make the 1sts for the rep season ?

 

[GAS]

Wow, what a week... full of quite some major upsets.

Highlights and Overview

CAS:
Trinity splitting Brendan Winters shows that either Trinity has had a huge turnaround since their ISDA season, in which they went 2/8 in a relatively easy pool, or Barker is facing some difficulties (perhaps missing their state speaker?). However, Barker did manage to take the win compared to their main rival, Aloys, who suffered a loss to Waverly College. This could indicate that Aloys had an upset or that Waverly might be a dark horse in the competition, looking to make some noise. Knox took a win against Cranbrook, despite the split, which could potentially put them in the mix to win the competition under the coaching of the illustrious Udai Kamath.

Overall, Barker is currently placed as the favourite to win CAS, with Knox and Aloys closely behind. That being said, it is looking close, with no clear favourite.

GPS:
Two notable results here. Firstly, Shore beat Matt Toomey's Joey's team in quite a shock result. Perhaps the Shore State Speaker has been promoted to their firsts, which could make them a team capable of upsetting some big names. The second result of note is Scots' win against a very strong Riverview team in a minor upset. I would be interested if anyone has any insight into this debate. This may position Scots as another team capable of upsetting big names.

Overall, GPS is looking like a two-horse race between SBHS (after a strong PDC) and Grammar, with Joeys capable of making a recovery. That being said, each of these teams will have to be careful not to drop points to the joker teams of Shore and Scots, both containing state speakers who, on their day, likely can pull something out of the hat.

Interestingly, High and Grammar's large tally of wins across all divisions speaks to their strong institutional strength.

Predictions for Round 2 GPS, and Round 3 CAS.

GPS:

Joeys vs Grammar
If Joeys are to stay alive in this GPS season, it's crucial for them to pick up this win against Grammar. That being said, the ISDA champions will be hard to beat. It's definitely the debate to watch and likely a debate that could determine the GPS.

Grammar at 60/40

Kings vs High
High are one of the favourites to win and have been in great form since beating James Ruse, who boast the Australian National Captain. Unfortunately for Kings, they are in for a tough round.

High at 95/5

Riverview vs Shore
Riverview still remains one of the strongest teams in GPS; however, their loss to Scots may be a point of concern. Furthermore, Shore may be in a good position if their State Speaker is indeed promoted to 1sts. It's a very hard debate to call between two very promising teams.

Shore at 55/45

Scots vs Newington
Scots will be hoping to collect a win before their season gets tough in Round 3 against High, a debate in which I think they may struggle. Newington should also not be underestimated, as they have made changes to their team going into the GPS season.
Scots at 75/25

CAS:

Knox vs Barker:
Two very good teams in what promises to be the clash of the day. Barker boasts a State Speaker and is an ISDA Semi-Finalist, while Knox is coached by Udai Kamath and has had a very strong run of form this year. I think a lot of this will depend on the topic and form on the day. The winner of this debate, I would hazard to say, will be the favourite to win CAS this year.
Barker at 51/49

Aloys vs Cranbrook:
Aloys will look to bounce back from the horrors of round 2, Cranbrook however has been capable of upsets in the past, especially in their ISDA season.
Aloys at 70/30

Good luck to all debaters!