Pumas vs Wallabies, 25th July 2015, Mendoza

[TahDan]

Well I am expecting the worse, afterall the push or whatever one wants to call it, is directed in the head area and the world rugby is explicitly trying to get any head-involved accidents out of the game.

You may be right... SANZAR are generally also disproportionately harsh on the Australian players too, so we might lose him. Don't think we should though all the same. At the very least Sanchez should cop an equivalent ban for cynical play.

 

[Groucho]

However, well placed box kicks do have a strategic benefit, as well as causing the rush defence to pause. If every breakdown ball is thrown wide by the 9, the defensive line is automatically on the front foot knowing the attacking team has no other options.

Yeah, I agree formerflanker. Well executed, contestible boxkicks are a real weapon in any form of rugby.

 

[Quick Hands]

It's not public, but according to Fairfax they've seen angles that show Hooper swing around and "push" Sanchez in the back of the neck, after which he rolls around on the ground and grabs his face like he's just had a bucket of acid thrown at him.

Massive dive if that's the case and hopefully the judiciary hit him harder than Hooper for both the professional foul and the dive


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From the vision I saw this morning on Fox, it appears that Hooper pushes him with an open hand which makes contact between the shoulder blades. Sanchez then nosedives into the turf and at the same time Hooper sprawls into the ground as well. It's basic physics if you are running full speed and get pushed in the back, you'll fall flat on your face. Related to this, if you are running and you push something and there is no resistance, you'll also fall flat on your face. The whole thing looks much worse than it was because Hooper whirled around in a 360 before making contact and Sanchez stayed down like he'd been machine gunned.

There were countless episodes during the match where players from both sides engaged in forceful pushing and shoving. SANZAR are only reacting to this because some boofhead put it up on social media.

 

[kiap]

Oh fuck, that Imgur image seals it, he's home free.

Nothing in it.

 

[Groucho]

Well I am expecting the worse, afterall the push or whatever one wants to call it, is directed in the head area and the world rugby is explicitly trying to get any head-involved accidents out of the game.

How do fends work then?

 

[saulityvi]

How do fends work then?

Was that a fend?

 

[ACT Crusader]

You may be right. SANZAR are generally also disproportionately harsh on the Australian players too, so we might lose him. Don't think we should though all the same. At the very least Sanchez should cop an equivalent ban for cynical play.

Is this one of those "vibe" comments or do you have actual judiciary results that compare sanctions across the 3 nations?

 

[Groucho]

Was that a fend?

No, but a fend is (often) a push to the head. Sometimes it's a push to the face. If rugby was trying to get head-involved incidents out of the game then they'd be banning the fend. But they're not. It's strikes they're concerned about. Pushes to any part of the body are completely legal.

 

[TahDan]

Is this one of those "vibe" comments or do you have actual judiciary results that compare sanctions across the 3 nations?

It's in reference to the harsh penalty Speight copped for his lifting tackle, getting 5 weeks, whilst a similar tackle in NZ only earned one earlier in the season. Remember the comparison on Rugby HQ, but can't remember the specific case they showed and I'm not going to dig for it this late in the evening. Tomorrow maybe


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[Brumby Runner]

The only saving grace was that the box kicks that he did make were accurate and effective. It's not a tactic I enjoy - it has it's place, but unless it is close to 100% accurate the box kick is a liability.

Have to disagree QH. Two of them (were there more?) were too long - not by much mind, but still too long to be contestable. One had a good outcome because it was knocked on by the player attempting to catch it.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I hate the box kick because it's such a low percentage play, but I will admit that mixing up your tactics during a game doesn't hurt. The kick in behind occasionally at least keeps the defence guessing. The other thing that does is quick ball from the breakdown and blokes running onto it at pace. The latter is what we should be focused on.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Well, in the space of one match, the box kick has gone from being entirely abhorrent to being a great tactical maneuver. What could be the reason for this abrupt turnaround?

 

[Quick Hands]

Have to disagree QH. Two of them (were there more?) were too long - not by much mind, but still too long to be contestable. One had a good outcome because it was knocked on by the player attempting to catch it.

I think there were only 2, but from my recollection they were a contest and were pretty much on the mark. I'm happy to be proven wrong because I don't think much of the box kick and would be more than happy for Cheika to extend the Waratahs box kick ban to the Wallabies.

 

[Quick Hands]

Well, in the space of one match, the box kick has gone from being entirely abhorrent to being a great tactical maneuver. What could be the reason for this abrupt turnaround?

You'll have to ask Rod Kafer about that one - he now seems to think it's necessary at test level.

 

[Langthorne]

Despite the risk of nuclear intervention, I chip in.

I thought Foley did ok. He did miss a few tackles, which is never good, but they were not in a situation that proved a major problem. The Kiwis would probably have made more of them. His distribution and running were both fine. His kicking (all types) was not good.

I think that as a 10, and playing at or near his best, Cooper offers the potential for a greater variety of approaches than Foley. I thought he did ok as well, but probably is better starting at 10 or not in the 23. I really liked some of his tactical kicking options, and I like it that he can kick long out of hand.

The forwards played better again this week. The lineout was very good. My only concern is Slipper, and the scrum. Is he, or is he not, injured? We really cannot afford to get done in the scrums.

I would say on Skelton, apart from the penalties, more of the same involvements please.

Bench worked well again.

Hooper's citing - it is hard to comment as a push in that situation is fine (a perfectly reasonable response to being held back), but a punch would earn a suspension and deserved criticism of his temperament. On the topic of his disciplinary record, I think it is considered clean from a citing perspective if he has never been suspended before - right? SANZAR judiciary are not concerned with what went on last summer, or how the guy handled the media as captain.

Overall, there is much reason for optimism, even with Foley and Cooper - although we probably haven't seen their best yet these last two matches, at least we have two (well, probably three) decent contenders for 10.

 

[ACR]

Some of you are pretty bloody optimistic about this Hooper business. Looked pretty bad to me.

I've seen people also mention "he was being held back". Where have you guys been the last forever? That sort of thing doesn't help hooper at all if deemed to have struck a player. James Haskell was getting tugged back by the balls playing for the Highlanders a few years ago, he swung around and struck (albeit with a fist), got six weeks reduced to three for early guilty plea, clean record and remorse.

What a huge overeaction by Hooper irregardless of the result anyway. He engages in this off the ball stuff himself, he should be used to it.

I know i might be a kiwi, not to be trusted, but i can honestly say I wouldn't be too fussed if an AB did that and got 2 weeks. It'll be nothing or a couple of weeks.

 

[Braveheart81]

You just compared it to a closed fist strike that netted Haskell 3 weeks.

If the video footage shows that it was an open handed push then I don't see any reason why people's optimism isn't reasonable.

I would be very surprised if Hooper missed more than just the next test given that it is two weeks away and would be the result of a two match suspension.

 

[USARugger]

Doesn't look like a punch to me, or a strike either.

Sanchez needs to work on his acting.

**I see I'm late to the party here but will keep these up for those who haven't seen them yet.**

 

[ACR]

You just compared it to a closed fist strike that netted Haskell 3 weeks.

If the video footage shows that it was an open handed push then I don't see any reason why people's optimism isn't reasonable.

I would be very surprised if Hooper missed more than just the next test given that it is two weeks away and would be the result of a two match suspension.

Yeah, a bit different, the point i was trying to make was that he was getting held back as well, by the balls, and that doesn't factor into their decisions.

An "open handed push", or a "rotating hand high five", doesn't make much difference. It comes under 'striking' to them. Lets also be real, they all bloody hurt' especially from a swinging arm anywhere near the head/neck (shoulders) if you're australian. Those claiming a dive are made of tougher stuff than I.

My bet is also 2 weeks, 1 game.

Edit: Also, it got six weeks, reduced for plea, record and remorse.

 

[qwerty51]

Also Hooper doesn't have a clean record. Didn't get get banned for a dump tackle in 2012 playing for the Brumbies against the Canes?

Edit: just found out he got cited but no ban.