QLD GPS Rugby 2016

[TheKing]

Thoughts?

Of course everyone on this forum is incredibly biased when it comes to this.

I can speak from first hand experience that the Queensland Reds staff were calling up non-TGS and Downlands schools in Toowoomba begging them to send teams down for the Ballymore Cup.

They offered to put on coaching clinics and even send some Reds up.

The schools in question declined both requests - no to the clinic, and no to Ballymore Cup because they didn't have the numbers to play a tournament.

It seems to me that "non-rugby schools" have little interest in playing Rugby.

I find it tough to read that people blame the ARU/QRU that rugby is restricted to private schools, because the truth is that the Union has zero influence on schools. All they can do is request and the schools have every right to deny that request. The Union often can't even afford to incentivise it because they're broke!

On the note that Greg Inglis or Jonathan Thurston aren't playing Union because their parents weren't rich, I'm sure the growth in scholarships will help reverse this trend in coming years.

People have made note that Digby Ioane was picked up from his home and driven to Terrace daily to ensure he attended classes. That's an example right there of private schools helping players of lower socio-economic background play Rugby. League would have jumped at the chance to sign Digby if he hadn't played Rugby at school.

Look at guys running around in the First XV and you'll see that these aren't wimpy kids who are months out from starting at an accounting firm. These players have all the tools to make it to higher levels at their disposal.

There are some great talents at your Keebra Parks and Wavells and Marsdens for sure, but if they have any interest in playing rugby they would be at a club or recruited to GPS Schools already.

Case in point, Richie Asiata, Phransis Sula-Siaosi and JP Tominiko, all from Keebra in the last three years.

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[BraveandGame]

Of course everyone on this forum is incredibly biased when it comes to this.

I can speak from first hand experience that the Queensland Reds staff were calling up non-TGS and Downlands schools in Toowoomba begging them to send teams down for the Ballymore Cup.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think those 'complaining' about the private school (read GPS) competitions damaging Rugby in this country, better be very careful what they wish for.

A headline - 'Private Schools keep Rugby afloat' may be a lot more accurate then many want to accept.

BAG

 

[phatmik]

I think those 'complaining' about the private school (read GPS) competitions damaging Rugby in this country, better be very careful what they wish for.

A headline - 'Private Schools keep Rugby afloat' may be a lot more accurate then many want to accept.

BAG

110% correct!!! Many facts that are unique to Australia affects our position. Our number one footy code AFL and is the only sport that is played here in the world. Imagine having some of those kids back in the fold. I think some do play as the GT fullback (correct me if I am wrong) is a Brisbane Lions kid for example.

I listened to Brad Thorn speak at the Men Of League luncheon and the theme was dual internationals. When Thorn was asked the question about why is rugby in Australia in the doldrums Thorn simply replied "in Aus, one sport (league) is tribal and one sport (union) is corporate. In NZ, one sport (union) is tribal and one sport (league) is corporate. Every lad in NZ growing up wants to play for the AB's" We dont have that so what we have to do is keep pushing and producing our own way.

I totally agree with B&G saying that all unions should be grateful for ANY rugby system. Super franchises should just about be in raptures to GPS schools.

 

[The Engine Room]

Can someone enlighten me as to what governance processes are there in GPS Rugby for checking player's ages and eligibility?

 

[Garry Owens]

Well said King.

You too BAG.

The issues are complex and incredibly multi-layered

From the kids and their families perspective League and AFL have done a much better job "on the ground" .

WHAT GAME SUITS ME ?

Observationally , at a grass roots level over the last few years - I can think of a number of examples in that critical U11 to U13 developmental path where boys have turned to AFL ( or Soccer ) because they feel intimidated by the increasing size disparity between early physical developers and themselves. This gets re-enforced 2 ways :

1. By "enabling" Mums

2. By the boys themselves that are much more premature in their view of themselves from a physical standpoint and who they think they are and will be ( physically ) thanks to social media and heightened early identification of body image.

The end result being : this game suits who I am ( and who I think I will be ) physically

On top of this ( and like it or not ) but kids are generally "streaming" early

The battle for hearts and minds is happening early

So whilst there are many other and contributing causes and issues .....from a kids / families perspective of choice /appeal this is a small , but IMO , not an insignificant part of the issue.

HOW THE GAME PROMOTES ITSELF

in 1980 David Stern became Commissioner of the NBA . 1 year prior Larry Bird had been drafted from Indiana State by the Celtics and Magic Johnson had been drafted out of Michigan by the Lakers.

Stern , essentially made the sport huge by making it about individuals ( with Bird and Magic as his first two protagonists ) and the struggle of where they had come from and what they had overcome to become the biggest "stars" of the game .

Social Redemption.

And he was very bloody good at manipulating that story to market and promote the game.

The sport became about individual "stars" because it was worth more money in broadcast rights and merchandising

League and AFL ( but League especially and I will just concentrate on League in an either / or choice to Rugby ) has always been better at this than Rugby and the gulf is widening

In fact Rugby is not even in the game in this respect

Who are the identities ? What do they stand for ? How are they marketed ?

And then how does this flow upstream into the Wallabies identity and what they're about and what they stand for ?

All weighty considerations , and frankly , blank as blank .

So what hope does a 10 to 15 year old kid have if its not reduced down to core simplicity for them ?

League is a simple game .

Rugby is not .

If you are trying to broaden your game to the masses , that frankly , means more "pitching" to the middle to lower socio -economic catchments :

1. The game is too hard to understand from a novice spectator's perspective. I mean.....no one gives a square root about the dark arts of scrummaging and putting heads in dark places when it comes to breakdown rugby, outside of the true lovers of the game

2. The aerobic requirements of Rugby combined with decision making and bigger dynamics are not as appealing to young boys in the masses ( I would suspect ) where the appeal is driven around :

- Not having to think too much

- I can have a crash where there is a guaranteed 10m setback and have optimal opportunity to boof it up and get validation in what has become more of a gladiator/lion's den style of contest

- Then , I can go and loaf around and have a breather for 90 seconds or so to recover before I might get a chance to do it again

- And then when we're defending .......I only have to stay on right side or left side and effectively play half a field , meaning , I don't have to run too much.

So yeah .....Rugby League is winning because people want simple collisions and contests in who they validate and celebrate in the Individualism of the game that the Administrators exploit very well. Add to which , there is less aerobic requirements in participation and even less thinking required

So if you are a young bopper or an early developed power athlete then its more likely that League is going to capture your heart and mind early with its simple gladiatorial culture , whereas , if you are not and you've convinced yourself that you never will be nice and early , then AFL own the space of convincing you are a cardio - skill athlete

AUSTRALIAN RUGBY'S CRISIS OF IDENTITY

So with all of this and the difficulty of penetrating the grassroots and the inability to win at this coalface ..........is it any wonder when there is no clear vision or purpose upstream ?

It feels to me that the identity of Rugby in this Country has been lost since the 1999 World Cup

You look at a lot of guys from that era and where they are now , and then , look at what we did through the noughties in trying to get in the game and give League a couple of black eyes with Lote Tuquiri and Matt Rogers.

Australian Rugby had gone from gentleman Bankers , Lawyers and Farmers to Ink and Gaming when not Training within 5 years

But they never thought it through and were looking for short term fixes to try and transition its relevance

All puppeteered by a top heavy administration that were conflicted when the first real money came into the game in the 90's when it went professional .

The problem was and maybe still is .........that none of them are from or have any social understanding of the markets that they so desire to expand into

Brett Papworth has covered much of this fairly extensively with the sum of it being today ( essentially ) is that the game seems to exist for the Administrators rather than the other way around.

I'm sure there are snouts in the trough in League and AFL too . Maybe just considerably fewer than in Rugby and at least where their snouts are from or better connected to their heartlands

So yeah.......The ARU should be thankful for the Schools system for what is presently and perhaps should try and find ways to incentivise the controlling School Associations to market Schoolboy Rugby . Yes .....including Broadcast Deals

 

[mgkent60]

Firstly, It was NC not Churchie for straters
Second the ref was sub standard and was not ready for such a crucial game.
Thirdly, I have heard a number of examples of poor parent behaviour from BSHS parents yesterday. What happened after the firsts game yesterday was embarrassing for the BSHS rugby community and they should be ashamed

Butcher Stripe

If you listen to the audio of the incident from the stream (@ 59:14 of the game) of the referee explaining the decision. BSHS player in the air going for the ball. Nudgee player, without any realistic chance of competing for the ball, takes out the defenceless BSHS players legs. The BSHS player goes passed the horizontal before hitting the ground on his left side. It is a penalty and automatic Yellow Card these days. Correct decision.

QRRA have used a similar incident from BSHS V GT 1st XV last year in referee education this year. In that game, from the initial kick-off, GT#4 is in the air catching the ball when BSHS#2 takes out his legs and GT#4 lands on his shoulder/head area. Should have been a Red Card however the referee only penalised. Both the referee and AR on that side of the field acknowledged the error.

In this case, the correct call by an excellent young referee who debuted in Premier Grade this year. Very competent.

Disclaimer Note: I am an ex-Nudgee and GT old boy, and a QRRA referee.Feel free to shoot me if you must.

 

[Butcher stripe]

Butcher Stripe

If you listen to the audio of the incident from the stream (@ 59:14 of the game) of the referee explaining the decision. BSHS player in the air going for the ball. Nudgee player, without any realistic chance of competing for the ball, takes out the defenceless BSHS players legs. The BSHS player goes passed the horizontal before hitting the ground on his left side. It is a penalty and automatic Yellow Card these days. Correct decision.

QRRA have used a similar incident from BSHS V GT 1st XV last year in referee education this year. In that game, from the initial kick-off, GT#4 is in the air catching the ball when BSHS#2 takes out his legs and GT#4 lands on his shoulder/head area. Should have been a Red Card however the referee only penalised. Both the referee and AR on that side of the field acknowledged the error.

In this case, the correct call by an excellent young referee who debuted in Premier Grade this year. Very competent.

Disclaimer Note: I am an ex-Nudgee and GT old boy, and a QRRA referee.Feel free to shoot me if you must.

I had no problem with yellow card given to the NC player, it was deserved.

 

[jl75]

I had no problem with yellow card given to the NC player, it was deserved.

So you would of had no problem giving the TSS player last week a yellow from the first play of the game. Legs taken out in the air, eyes never on the ball. The fact of the matter is consistency. There is none. With so much riding on this game it warranted a top grade ref who could handle the pressure and make the pressure calls. Not intimidated or influenced by supporters.
Well done again to BSHS, they thoroughly deserved it.

 

[mgkent60]

So you would of had no problem giving the TSS player last week a yellow from the first play of the game. Legs taken out in the air, eyes never on the ball. The fact of the matter is consistency. There is none. With so much riding on this game it warranted a top grade ref who could handle the pressure and make the pressure calls. Not intimidated or influenced by supporters.
Well done again to BSHS, they thoroughly deserved it.

jl75

I just watched the incident on the YouTube footage of the game (@ 5:02 in the footage).

Again, I agree with the referee's decision (the referee was Rohan Hoffman, an experienced referee (3 Tests, 16+ Super Rugby games)). Certainly a penalty with the difference being the Nudgee jumper did not go passed horizontal (helped by the TSS player who looked to pull out of the tackle and slowed the Nudgee jumper's descent to the ground) and landed on his feet/knees.

Looks consistent to me.

Nice win to Nudgee in that game.

 

[Joe.C123]

Would anyone have guessed the amount of success state high first XV produced this season. Not to mention the lack of experience: The starting hooker is only in grade 10

 

[High cut boots]

Any thoughts on quality of teams this year?
Cannot argue with the quality of the competition, the best for years, with most teams a genuine chance each week. Not sure if any team would have challenged the Churchie premiers sides of the last couple of years?
Maybe the talent is spread more evenly across the board this year, if this is the case it can only be a good thing for Qld GPS rugby. I'm sure no one would like to see a tiered competition like NSW, as much as we would hate to see lop sided affairs. There will always be schools at the pointy end most years but great to see some different colours up there.

 

[Waterboyrugby]

I think those 'complaining' about the private school (read GPS) competitions damaging Rugby in this country, better be very careful what they wish for.

A headline - 'Private Schools keep Rugby afloat' may be a lot more accurate then many want to accept.

Correct. Private schools abandoning rugby would be the death of union in Australia. The 2nd biggest risk is the regressing style of rugby being played at the highest level (Super), which on Pay TV is not doing any favours in trying to capture public interest. A Reds game at the moment is hard to swallow for any rugby fan let alone a non-rugby fan. The game live on FTA would not make a difference.

QLD GPS needs to expand to 18 weeks (home and away rounds) through terms 2 & 3 much like NSW.

FTA televised schoolboy rugby would be a better proposition. At this time of the year also, NRL & AFL finals games dwindle each week. I would take top 2 QLD GPS, top 2 NSW GPS, and 4 NZ invitational schools and run a competition through Oct & Nov culminating with the Aus vs NZ schoolboys test.

 

[HJ Nelson]

jl75

I just watched the incident on the YouTube footage of the game (@ 5:02 in the footage).

Again, I agree with the referee's decision (the referee was Rohan Hoffman, an experienced referee (3 Tests, 16+ Super Rugby games)). Certainly a penalty with the difference being the Nudgee jumper did not go passed horizontal (helped by the TSS player who looked to pull out of the tackle and slowed the Nudgee jumper's descent to the ground) and landed on his feet/knees.

Looks consistent to me.

Nice win to Nudgee in that game.

Agree that he didn't go past horizontal.
Definitely penalty though.

 

[thebreakdown]

Wow. let's forget about the game plan and FB, but my video footage of the game would probably suggest that the opposite of everything you said is true. So I'm wondering if you were bored and had the inclining for a spot of fly fishing.

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[GPSupporter]

Any thoughts on quality of teams this year?
Cannot argue with the quality of the competition, the best for years, with most teams a genuine chance each week. Not sure if any team would have challenged the Churchie premiers sides of the last couple of years?
Maybe the talent is spread more evenly across the board this year, if this is the case it can only be a good thing for Qld GPS rugby. I'm sure no one would like to see a tiered competition like NSW, as much as we would hate to see lop sided affairs. There will always be schools at the pointy end most years but great to see some different colours up there.

I agree with you here. Although the competition is a lot more competitive and thus more entertaining this year the standard has dropped. This is represented in the amount of GPS boys in the Queensland teams and the success of the Queensland teams down in Sydney earlier this year. It is of my opinion that the competition is much younger and less experienced this year than it has been in previous years. An example of this is the BBC first xv who I think had something like 11 returning players from 2014 playing in 2015 whereas this year that number is a bit lower at approximately 5. In saying this there are still some quality rugby players running around.

 

[Realist]

110% correct!!! Many facts that are unique to Australia affects our position. Our number one footy code AFL and is the only sport that is played here in the world. Imagine having some of those kids back in the fold. I think some do play as the GT fullback (correct me if I am wrong) is a Brisbane Lions kid for example.

I listened to Brad Thorn speak at the Men Of League luncheon and the theme was dual internationals. When Thorn was asked the question about why is rugby in Australia in the doldrums Thorn simply replied "in Aus, one sport (league) is tribal and one sport (union) is corporate. In NZ, one sport (union) is tribal and one sport (league) is corporate. Every lad in NZ growing up wants to play for the AB's" We dont have that so what we have to do is keep pushing and producing our own way.

I totally agree with B&G saying that all unions should be grateful for ANY rugby system. Super franchises should just about be in raptures to GPS schools.

Brad Thorn I think has hit the nail on the head
Having coached junior rugby for a number of years I have had and seen quite a number of league players come over and given it a go and not once have I had a kid say he dosn't like playing the game in fact they love it. Some stick with it but others go back to league for various reasons.
The problem is not the game its self.

 

[Whisperer]

I guess you could say "it was someone's premiership", over that is!!!

Yep
BBC with heaps of seconds did a great job for most of the game.

GT so fortunate to have little injury issues.

Go Nudgee!!

 

[Slimjim1966]

Can someone confirm for me

BSHS beat Tss they win outright
Tss beat BSHS, Tss BSHS and winner of nc v GT all share premiership

Sorry if this has been discussed already.

 

[Stripes]

Can someone confirm for me

BSHS beat Tss they win outright
Tss beat BSHS, Tss BSHS and winner of nc v GT all share premiership

Sorry if this has been discussed already.

Correct

 

[BraveandGame]

Quick update on the preseason form guide after eight rounds:

16A’s – Battle of today V tomorrow

TSS
GT
NCIGS TGS

NC & GT will benefit greatly without their immersion programs. IGS were good last year, but I still think at full strength NC and GT are the cream of the crop here. If they are not required to supply too many to the Firsts they should finish top 3 with TSS who usually sport a few new recruits.
BBC could be the surprises here. (ACGS are the surprises here)

Round 2 UpdateWow way off the mark on this one – ACGS looking good and already accounting for IGS and GT, NC looking out of sorts even with little Firsts impact, I’ll also put the watch on TGS rather than BBC.

Round 4 Update
ACGS still looking the goods after flying under (at least) my radar this preseason, GT handed TSS their first loss – A win to NC over AGCS could see a very interesting last round of fixtures. TGS away will test GT greatly, forget IGS and BBC will need to improve to upset any of the top 4.

Round 6 Update
After 6 rounds there are still 4 schools with 1 loss (GT, TGS, TSS & ACGS), GT V TGS this weekend will see one drop off, and ACGS v TSS in round 8 finishes another. Very good win by ACGS over NC and a great rebound after going down to TGS up on the range.

The top 5 (I still like NC) are pretty close and pretty good and that makes for a tough 2017 in the Firsts, something we can all look forward to.

Round 8 Update
This has been a great comp and bodes well for the 2017 1st XV. After beating TGS and killing off their hopes, GT were themselves ‘knocked out’ in an ambush at Toowong. TSS downing NC and ACGS have only to beat the lowly ranked BSHS to wrap up another 16A’s title.GT V NC for the St Joseph’s Cup point is about the only interesting game in week 9.


15As – Oh what might have been?
BSHS TSS
BBC
GT
NC

BSHS look bigger and faster than ever with amazing depth across the age group. BCC remain classy but I defiantly saw some defensive issues being hidden by speed over the last few years and I think BSHS catch them this year. GT are a very good team (IMO the best in the age group) but will miss players and be distracted throughout while NC face the same issues as Terrace but are not quite as good.

No surprise packages here the top 3 are all very good and well balanced – BBC V BSHS should decide the title and it is a shame we won’t see GT at its best.
Hard to change much here yet, other than to say missing a full strength BBC V GT battle is the tragedy of this seasons GPS Competition

GT suffered their first loss in over a year to a ‘near’ full strength TSS who might just be ‘the team’ in this age group now -very big, strong and if the weekend is any guide FIT –BSHS have not come on as I expected with TSS comfortably taking their spot in the top three, NC keep winning against the bottom half of the table, while BBC not as dominant as they once were, still have plenty of class and fight as well as an unbeaten record!

Well last year’s top three GT, BBC and BSHS have certainly come back to the field, with TSS and NC staking strong claims for top three rankings, BSHS have fallen away quite a bit while GT and BBC seem to be stuck in second gear – winning most but not looking like the performance vehicles they resembled last season. GT V BBC will see a sub strength GT line-up and there will be no GT V NC so we really only have TSS V NC to look truly forward to in 2016.

However I am already looking to 2017 and the 16A’s looks like a ripper comp next season if the teams remain substantially intact.

BGS have been big improvers and if a few of these (new) boys step up to the firsts next year to join a quality group of returnees, BGS might actually improve on the field and not just in people’s hearts in the top grade next season

Can’t say I saw an undefeated season for NC being on the cards in this age group – but they still need to get past GT to secure it. I am not sure I actually believe NC are the best team in the age group – although having beaten BBC and TSS this season it is timely to point out they have never lost to GT – in a real game - ever.

BBC V GT was a quality game and really reminded us of what a full strength battle might have provided. GT V NC (hopefully at full strength) is a cracking way to finish the season (could GT hand BBC a share of the title) and TSS V BSHS and BBC V IGS still holds some minor interest for those following the age group.

14A’s – The bigger they are the harder they fall

IGS
BSHS
BBC
GT

Same top 4 as last year – but not necessarily in the same order. BBC and GT will be stronger in personnel and on the field and just a little closer than they were last year. This year is probably too soon but I expect a changing of the guard in U15 with BBC rising to the top and GT closing the gap but cruelled by immersion.

TGS if anyone upsets the top 4.

The top two are away and heading towards a monumental clash, while GT threatened to spring an almighty upset in round one, BBC still flying under the radar with the bye (&BGS) and TGS are 2 for 2 against some handy competition.

Wow!!! GT so nearly get the double against BSHS and IGS but in the end come away with nothing, while TGS went one better and held BSHS to a draw only to be beaten by BBC who finally got to make a statement in 2016– main interest now lies in who wins BSHS V IGS, although GT V TGS and BBC V all the top teams should be great games and real guides to how this age group is shaping for future years. Just how good are BBC??

Well BSHS look to have taken IGS’s crown with a hard fought win at Ippy whilst also answering the big question about BBC, they are just off the top two and closing fast just like GT and potentially TGS.

The GT V TGS and GT V BBC games will be great – there is plenty of feeling in this battle for third and BBC will be primed for GT and then look to upset IGS – something that is not out of the question at all and they would not look out of place in the No 2 spot.

What a lot fun this group provided this year, with the bigger boys finding the going harder and team work starting to show up the individual skill. BBC saw off GT for third and GT accounted for TGS for fourth although NC could still equal them with a win on Saturday. We now get the added pleasure of BBC trying to ‘upset’ IGS for second in a final round barnstormer.

13A’s – Size really does matter

GT
IGS
BSHS ACGSNC
BBC

GT were easily the pick (and biggest) of the under 12s in 2015 and have some quality new boys arriving as do BBC. IGS and BSHS are always good in 13’s and were pretty good last year in the 12s - IGS field a couple of the hardest tacklers I have seen at this age. I know little of the BSHS new boys but I expect them to be good and big. BBC will probably lack the depth of the top 3 but have some real class, a few worthy workers and could (but probably won’t) beat any of the top three on their day. IGS V GT to decide the title.

ACGS the dark horse with an excellent forward pack but not much size out wide.
Interesting start to the season – GT not looking as dominant as many predicted, but still getting the job done – IGS have deservedly overtaken them for favouritism. BBC have yet to show any of their cards and ACGS have performed extremely well against the (preseason) top 2 – could they go undefeated from here on out.

Well GT stood up against IGS and were a trifle unlucky not to get the prize as were NC, IGS seem to be doing it tough but keep on winning, We all now wait for BBC to show their ‘form’ against the top 4 sides IGS, GT, NC and ACGS. BSHS have been disappointing and are really a mid-table team.

Really looking forward to how this age group matures over the next few seasons – a few teams are (over) relying on size and speed and the 14’s this year have shown how quickly that proves problematic. Must say I have been impressed by ACGS and think with a key addition or two (preferably in the backline) could be the real improvers over the next season or two.

Nothing much changing here – IGS keep on winning as do the three sides below them BBC, GT and NC. NC’s win over ACGS was very impressive one wonders if the constant battles against much larger teams are starting to tell on the Churchie lads much like last season’s GT team. Their game against BBC should be interesting. Great season by NC so far now just to finish off against BSHS and then GT.

GT V BBC and NC and BBC V IGS will decide the top three. I’ll tip GT to win both and BBC to lose to IGS leaving it IGS, GT, NC and BBC in that order, but all three could go either way.


This age group keeps on keeping on –IGS sit atop the table but will have a tough one against a BBC side that stuck it to GT on the weekend without really ever threatening to win the game – the battle of the 12’s was monumental and clearly overshadowed the match up at 13.

GT will need to see off a very good NC side and hope BBC can upset IGS if they want to share the spoils. ACGS get a well-earned weekend off, while BGS tries for its first win of the season against TGS.