Rebels 2021

[KevinO]

Steve Larkham has been linked to the Tah's job but you could do worse bringing him Home.

Tahs can have him, from a Munster fan. His attack coaching is no better then Wessals

I wouldn't mind seeing what Rob Penney could do with our squad though.

 

[Dctarget]

Tahs can have him, from a Munster fan. His attack coaching is no better then Wessals

I wouldn't mind seeing what Rob Penney could do with our squad though.

Yeah, I think swapping Wessels for Larkham would be foolish at this stage. I want a coach who has a proven track record and isn't early on their development path i.e. Wessels, Graham, Thorn, Larkham etc.

 

[Dctarget]

Mentioning Graham, I think there's similarities between him & Wessels. Wessels obviously has a much better record but both seem to be well liked by the team and go above & beyond for the players. I'm a big fan of Wessels and the culture he is trying bring and makes me sad that I think he has to go, he's really made an effort to integrate to Melbourne with his family and give back.

 

[KevinO]

If the Rebels want to approach an Aussie coach to bring home, I'd go with Nathan Hines, no ties to Aussie rugby politics and plenty of experience

 

[GoMelbRebels]

Nick Stiles? I saw him at a Sunwolves v Rebels game in Tokyo (2019), hanging out with the Rebels coaches. Never got a chance at the Reds.

 

[RugbyReg]

Stilesy coached a whole season at the Reds.

Reckon he’d be a good shot. With a good off sider.

Obviously a Melbourne bit too.

 

[Derpus]

I think it's a pretty rough comparison for Wessels. Thorn has all that generational talent coming through to prop him up. Where are the Rebels going to pull guys like Wilson, McReight or Petaia from? Their bumholes?

You might get marginal gains by swapping Wessels out but i fucken doubt it, honestly.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Having a good squad on paper is only valuable if you play on paper.
The reality is the quality of the squads has been vastly over estimated.
Effectively merging two average sides does not suddenly make a great side it just makes a larger average side.
It has always in that time been a squad with some glaring holes in it and when you add a crippling injury list most of the time it means he has rarely had anywhere near his best squad on the park.

Merging sides was 4 years ago - wessels has had plenty of time to rectify and hasn’t. He has had four years and failed to deliver and to be really frank should have been gone a long time ago as he is just not the answer or at least failed in 4 years to show he is the answer. Penny with poorer squad list probably got a pass mark last year and with weaker squad and hammerings got let go this season. Wessels now in fourth year has failed to show rebels can play a consistent and cohesive team game with all the talents on paper. Only paper I am interested in at this point is signing off him not being renewed as seriously 4 years for these results for squads they have had is sad and underwhelming.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I think it's a pretty rough comparison for Wessels. Thorn has all that generational talent coming through to prop him up. Where are the Rebels going to pull guys like Wilson, McReight or Petaia from? Their bumholes?

You might get marginal gains by swapping Wessels out but i fucken doubt it, honestly.

So would you offer wessels a néw contract....

 

[Derpus]

So would you offer wessels a néw contract..

Well i wouldn't be sacking him. Is his contract up for renewal? i guess letting him go might make sense then, if there are a few other options.

 

[KevinO]

Well i wouldn't be sacking him. Is his contract up for renewal? i guess letting him go might make sense then, if there are a few other options.

Well his contract is up at the end of the season.

And at this stage and with this squad, it's not about rebuilding. Its about a fresh approach cause what's happening right now is not working.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Well his contract is up at the end of the season.

And at this stage and with this squad, it's not about rebuilding. Its about a fresh approach cause what's happening right now is not working.

Or worked for the last 4 years!!!!! Seriously how many coaches get this latitude before being shown the door. Wessels should be grateful for getting 4 years of underwhelming results for squads he has had..

 

[LearningCurve]

Stilesy coached a whole season at the Reds.

Reckon he’d be a good shot. With a good off sider.

Obviously a Melbourne bit too.

Stiles was a very good forwards coach I thought when he was with Brisbane City and Reds. Getting the right person who he can work with would be key - didn't feel he had too much say in that with the Reds.

 

[GoMelbRebels]

After the first two games this season, despite them being losses I thought for the first time we were being coached the best in years, or ever. Then the direction was lost. Perhaps it was because of the criticism of not scoring tries so they listened and threw the ball around, which worked against the Tahs but failed after that. If you are going to play a SA / Northern Hemisphere brand of game then stick with it, no matter what people think or say.

Jake White would be a good DOR over Wessels. I mean, they have worked together before.

 

[Zero_Cool]

I think the thing most holding back the Rebels in the last two years has been their insistence to play To'omua at 10. Even last year when they played Deagan at 10 they looked so much sharper in attack - obviously Deagan isn't a very good flyhalf, but he is a flyhalf, To'omua just can't get a backline humming like a flyhalf. With that said it baffles me that the Rebels would go to the lengths of louring Carter Gordon away from the Reds (apparently promising more playing time) and then never play him.
I think now with nothing to lose they've really gotta play Gordon at 10, move To'omua to his natural 12.

I've always assumed it's been a demand from To'omua to play at 10, or the board/management insisting he has to 'our star player has to play the star position'. If it's Wessels' insistence then I think he ought to go. He's had long enough, that year he had Genia and Qaude they should have been one of the top teams and I don't think they even made the finals IIRC. He's had long enough and they've just always been a bit average despite often having one of the best lists in the country.

Also one key different between say Thorn and Wessels, while yes Thorn has generational talent, don't forget he built that talent. Wessels has had even more U20's/Australian Schoolboys etc he had access to the same NRC program (although to be fair only one team). What has he got to show from it, Hodge ... maybe Hosea, Uelese?, Leota? Even if you take Tupou out of Thorn's credit he's been directly responsible for Tuttle, Stewart, ASY (Angus Scott-Young), LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), McReight, Uru, Flook, Daugunu.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I think the thing most holding back the Rebels in the last two years has been their insistence to play To'omua at 10. Even last year when they played Deagan at 10 they looked so much sharper in attack - obviously Deagan isn't a very good flyhalf, but he is a flyhalf, To'omua just can't get a backline humming like a flyhalf. With that said it baffles me that the Rebels would go to the lengths of louring Carter Gordon away from the Reds (apparently promising more playing time) and then never play him.
I think now with nothing to lose they've really gotta play Gordon at 10, move To'omua to his natural 12.

I've always assumed it's been a demand from To'omua to play at 10, or the board/management insisting he has to 'our star player has to play the star position'. If it's Wessels' insistence then I think he ought to go. He's had long enough, that year he had Genia and Qaude they should have been one of the top teams and I don't think they even made the finals IIRC. He's had long enough and they've just always been a bit average despite often having one of the best lists in the country.

Also one key different between say Thorn and Wessels, while yes Thorn has generational talent, don't forget he built that talent. Wessels has had even more U20's/Australian Schoolboys etc he had access to the same NRC program (although to be fair only one team). What has he got to show from it, Hodge . maybe Hosea, Uelese?, Leota? Even if you take Tupou out of Thorn's credit he's been directly responsible for Tuttle, Stewart, ASY (Angus Scott-Young), LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), McReight, Uru, Flook, Daugunu.

I will be Frank - I don’t care if To’omua or other players holding back rebels as coaches job to select right players in right positions that can deliver and more importantly deliver as a team and only consistent thing rebels have done is not consistently deliver that. I just can’t see how after 4 years under wessels there is anything to justify renewing his contract. Time for change as don’t want to see rebels in this same position in another 4 years time.

 

[Rebels3]

After the first two games this season, despite them being losses I thought for the first time we were being coached the best in years, or ever. Then the direction was lost. Perhaps it was because of the criticism of not scoring tries so they listened and threw the ball around, which worked against the Tahs but failed after that. If you are going to play a SA / Northern Hemisphere brand of game then stick with it, no matter what people think or say.

Jake White would be a good DOR over Wessels. I mean, they have worked together before.

Couldn’t of said it better

 

[swingpass]

After the first two games this season, despite them being losses I thought for the first time we were being coached the best in years, or ever. Then the direction was lost. Perhaps it was because of the criticism of not scoring tries so they listened and threw the ball around, which worked against the Tahs but failed after that. If you are going to play a SA / Northern Hemisphere brand of game then stick with it, no matter what people think or say.

Jake White would be a good DOR over Wessels. I mean, they have worked together before.

Yes i was going to say the same, i thought that finally they were playing smart pragmatic rugby and then succumbed to the "will the Rebels ever score a try?".

 

[Zero_Cool]

My concern wasn't that they weren't scoring tries, not even they weren't generating any try scoring opportunities, but that they almost weren't even trying too. IIRC their third game against the Force they completely turned that around and looked to score tries off every play. While that's still not ideal, tiger gotta have SOME pragmatism, it was a major improvement to be attaching to score tries. But they went way too far that way, they completely ignored the 3 and have been bipolar about it since.

Had they taken the endeavor they showed in that game against the Force and kept that, and played money ball kicking easy goals and putting tough ones into the corner then IMO they'd have had an overall better season. But sadly they've either played for the penalty exclusively or they've looked only to score tries exclusive.

IMO you can't win games without at least threatening to score tries, teams will smarten up to that quickly and stop infringing in their own half. But if you attack to try to score tries but take the 3 when it's on offer, well then no matter what the defense does they're under pressure.
I'm so disappointed that didn't stick with them money ball approach and just add in those try scoring plays because they've got them. Instead they've had these two playing modes - score tries at all costs, and only play for the penalty and attempt every kick. When what they needed was a nuanced approach taking the 3 when on offer, but knowing kicking to the corner is effective too.

 

[Derpus]

My concern wasn't that they weren't scoring tries, not even they weren't generating any try scoring opportunities, but that they almost weren't even trying too. IIRC their third game against the Force they completely turned that around and looked to score tries off every play. While that's still not ideal, tiger gotta have SOME pragmatism, it was a major improvement to be attaching to score tries. But they went way too far that way, they completely ignored the 3 and have been bipolar about it since.

Are you even reading what they are saying? They had a clear game plan based on 3s (which Australian sides are notoriously susceptible to) and it looked like it might pay dividends. Then they, in theory, listened to blokes like you and deviated.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.