Reds 2018

[dru]

Can we get backs running off his hip, both sides, as he hits the D?

(Almost sounds like talking about Quade.)

It’s not just K, it’s the attack organisation.

 

[TSR]

To many kids all at once, not enough experience for Super Rugby

Yeah - probably. But our current formation is too one dimensional. Just making one change like bringing in Stewart at FB or bringing DP at 12 either doesn’t fix all the issues, or will only create problems elsewhere. Whilst the above configuration lacks experience, and I don’t want to ignore the importance of that, it is, for me, the best balance of the players we have.

But ultimately it won’t happen (and it quite possibly shouldn’t) for the exact reason you raise.

 

[Lindommer]

A history lesson

For the last six or seven years, OK, since 2011 to be exact, we've heard/read about these world-beating Queensland junior newcomers who've swept all before them, most whose talent stemmed from their natural physical attributes. GPS scholarship boys/Qld/Australian Schoolboys most of 'em. And yet the vast majority of this new wave haven't cut the mustard at professional level. Ben Tapuai and Aidan Toua are the two examples I can think of off the top of my head; Lloyd Johanssen from previous years is another. Why haven't so many of these naturally physically and talented youngsters progressed to the next stage as competent professional rugby players? And why have so many of them been injured so often in this time? For those observant Gaggerlanders who've follow my posts over the years I've often commented how well our Kiwi cousins convert their talented youngsters into the finished product.

Here's where the history lesson kicks in. Prior to the 2014 Reds/Tahs match at Suncorp sucker, me old mucker (suckerforred for those who don't know) dragged me along to a pre-match Reds function at the old/new iceworks place in Paddington. Knuckles Connolly was the guest speaker, and I was horrified/delighted to hear him predict the Tahs were a monte that night. Later, I got him in a corner (he and I fellow Marist OBs 'n' all) and interrogated him about two things: 1. why weren't Queensland developing all that natural talent which was so abundant?, and, 2. how come there were so many recurring/regular injuries to this lot? John gave me a succinct reply: "coaching". He went on to give me an example of a recent NZ tour he was involved in and expanded on the quality of coaching across the ditch: he opined it was so much superior to ours. What could I say in reply than other agree?

Knuckles reply, "coaching", says it all. Which brings me to my current observation: the last few years in Brisbane seem to be a constant continuum of talked-up-talented youngsters who're going to conquer the known world of rugby. The S & C problems of the last four/five years seem to've abated somewhat (they couldn't've got any worse!) but the bringing along of promising youngsters hasn't progressed one bit. In my opinion.

A small step back: I lived in Brisbane from 1976 to 1982 and went to Ballymore every year and cheered for my beloved Waratahs (have you seen my t-shirt?). Yeah, I was there when the locals booed Mark and Glen Ella after Bob Dwyer preferred them to Paul McLean and Roger Gould in his first coaching gig, against Scotland in May 1982. BUT, call me silly, I've always been more concerned about the overall health of Oz rugby. There're two states who've always contributed the vast majority of test players, and on them falls a responsibility to develop players to a test standard.

The present: I have very serious doubts if the current coaching Queensland crew's capable of getting the best out of this Reds squad. Thorn: #1 for mental toughness and physicality, but rugby skills?, jury's out. Totality Tony: mmmmm?, coulda/shoulda at least given us a glimpse of his nurturing skills at a new enterprise such as the Rebels this recent past. Looked closely (with a magnifying glass.....) but couldn't see it. Carozza: to be kind, a good back but a learner as a backs coach, unless banging into props' elbows is the go..... Forgive me, I jest (sorry, Paul I couldn't resist). Call me callous but results this year seem to be less than promised; I just don't think they can do it. Continually preferring good ole Queensland boys coz they're red above all else isn't a good path to take to improve rugby in Queensland, or anywhere. Maybe we should cut this lot a little slack, the best is yet to come; it MUST come, soon.

This is a young and very talented squad of rugby players at the Reds ATM, but I just can't see the current coaching setup getting the best out of them. Physically and mentally BBT will probably get them to a stage he wants to; however, rugby skillswise, the Reds need something more. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

BTW, please don't accuse me of patronising Queensland, or anybody else in Oz rugby.

 

[Getwithme]

On that coaching front, I'm suprised over the years we haven't had more Kiwi coaches of our super rugby teams. We need all the help we can get and these guys are doing so much over there. In saying that it's not a single coach who makes the difference.

 

[Bobby Sands]

I'll give you one reason this reason hasn't be a write off for QLD rugby, Caleb Timu. Bloke is a freak, should be a monte for the Wobs #8.

 

[Scrubber2050]

According to Rugbystats app, Kerevi is equal second for missed tackles in the comp this year, and has actually missed more tackles than at the same time as last year.

Think the kiwi teams will be looking to target him

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Agree.

Last week Kerevi was targeted in attack and was largely ineffectual.
Opposition teams realise that he is the Reds go-forward option (probably the only one) and if you shut him down the Reds have little else.

He is largely a one dimensional player and can be and is being shut down.

Players around him need to take advantage of him being marked so heavily.

 

[TSR]

Kerevi is topping (or close to) the run metres week in week out, consistently beats defenders, even when heavily marked, and he can and does pass and offload the ball.

His defence needs work, but his attack is outstanding.

 

[Scrubber2050]

 

[SouthernX]

Kerevi is topping (or close to) the run metres week in week out, consistently beats defenders, even when heavily marked, and he can and does pass and offload the ball.

His defence needs work, but his attack is outstanding.

He does not pass the ball enough. Classic ballhog.

 

[Braveheart81]

Interesting comparing the stats from the Tahs vs Reds game.

The Reds forwards had far more runs relative to the backs compared with the Tahs having comparatively less forward runs relative to their backs.

Tahs backs had 70 runs compared to Tahs forwards with 54.

Reds backs had 59 runs compared to Reds forwards with 81.

The passing on the other hand told a different story. The Tahs threw a total of 184 passes but only 61 were by the half back (33%).

The Reds threw 154 passes and 90 of those were by the half back (58%). That's a lot of one out runners. The Reds forwards only threw 15 passes between them (less than half the passes the Tahs forwards made).

Curtis Rona passed more times than the Reds centres combined and the Tahs wingers passed 5x as many times as the Reds wingers.

Across the park you would think the Reds need to move the ball more. This isn't just a case of Lance not having any flare in attack. The whole team isn't moving the ball enough and doing little to challenge defences.

 

[TSR]

He does not pass the ball enough. Classic ballhog.

I agree his distribution skills still need to improve. One of the problems with the Reds attack is that neither Kerevi nor CFS are distributors and Toua has come off the boil. But my main point is he is currently one of our most effective attackers. Whilst he may not be passing the ball as much as you would like he is consistently running through 1-2 defenders.

Last year he was (rightly) being criticised for the careless flick passes. Now he has rained that in significantly. He does still pass to his outside supports - but most of the time when he gets the ball he is the designated ball runner.

At the end of the day, my central point is Kerevi remains one of our most productive players in attack and I don’t think his attack is in our top 10 of issues at the present.

 

[TSR]

Interesting comparing the stats from the Tahs vs Reds game.

The Reds forwards had far more runs relative to the backs compared with the Tahs having comparatively less forward runs relative to their backs.

Tahs backs had 70 runs compared to Tahs forwards with 54.

Reds backs had 59 runs compared to Reds forwards with 81.

The passing on the other hand told a different story. The Tahs threw a total of 184 passes but only 61 were by the half back (33%).

The Reds threw 154 passes and 90 of those were by the half back (58%). That's a lot of one out runners. The Reds forwards only threw 15 passes between them (less than half the passes the Tahs forwards made).

Curtis Rona passed more times than the Reds centres combined and the Tahs wingers passed 5x as many times as the Reds wingers.

Across the park you would think the Reds need to move the ball more. This isn't just a case of Lance not having any flare in attack. The whole team isn't moving the ball enough and doing little to challenge defences.

It was very noticeable that the forwards seldom offloaded, or even looked to offload. Ball security is great, but one out runners just doesn’t get the job done these days.

 

[RedsHappy]

According to Rugbystats app, Kerevi is equal second for missed tackles in the comp this year, and has actually missed more tackles than at the same time as last year.

Think the kiwi teams will be looking to target him

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Only a few weeks back Reds Senior Assistant Coach McGahan - designated as responsible for Reds' defence - stated that the team's defence skills and capability would be far superior this year than last.

After 7 Round games in 2018, I see very little evidence of this claim in reality. And it certainly could not be said that McGahan's Rebels were an excellent defensive team.

 

[Rebelsfan]

agree Lindommer - we had TT in Rebels 2013-2017 and our injury rate was incredible and the last season it was the reason for many of the losses (14 of them counting the draw) but the injuries were often occurring during training

 

[Rebelsfan]

Only a few weeks back Reds Senior Assistant Coach McGahan - designated as responsible for Reds' defence - stated that the team's defence skills and capability would be far superior this year than last.

After 7 Round games in 2018, I see very little evidence of this claim in reality. And it certainly could not be said that McGahan's Rebels were an excellent defensive team.

more like an open door

 

[RedsHappy]

Interesting comparing the stats from the Tahs vs Reds game.

The Reds forwards had far more runs relative to the backs compared with the Tahs having comparatively less forward runs relative to their backs.

Tahs backs had 70 runs compared to Tahs forwards with 54.

Reds backs had 59 runs compared to Reds forwards with 81.

The passing on the other hand told a different story. The Tahs threw a total of 184 passes but only 61 were by the half back (33%).

The Reds threw 154 passes and 90 of those were by the half back (58%). That's a lot of one out runners. The Reds forwards only threw 15 passes between them (less than half the passes the Tahs forwards made).

Curtis Rona passed more times than the Reds centres combined and the Tahs wingers passed 5x as many times as the Reds wingers.

Across the park you would think the Reds need to move the ball more. This isn't just a case of Lance not having any flare in attack. The whole team isn't moving the ball enough and doing little to challenge defences.

Good post. Your data backs the anecdotal and intuitive sense that the Reds' attack - holistically and in its component pieces - is poorly coached, poorly organised and incoherent in any form of consistent execution.

Actually, since J McKay left the Reds as attack coach the above can be said of the Reds for most of the 2013-18 Super seasons.

 

[The torpedo]

What this season shows (so far) is that for 2019 we desperately need a team of really good assistants.

 

[The torpedo]

In other news, Fox Sports has a massive collection of stats:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/super-rugby/stats/teams?sortBy=points

 

[RedsHappy]

A history lesson

For the last six or seven years, OK, since 2011 to be exact, we've heard/read about these world-beating Queensland junior newcomers who've swept all before them, most whose talent stemmed from their natural physical attributes. GPS scholarship boys/Qld/Australian Schoolboys most of 'em. And yet the vast majority of this new wave haven't cut the mustard at professional level. Ben Tapuai and Aidan Toua are the two examples I can think of off the top of my head; Lloyd Johanssen from previous years is another. Why haven't so many of these naturally physically and talented youngsters progressed to the next stage as competent professional rugby players? And why have so many of them been injured so often in this time? For those observant Gaggerlanders who've follow my posts over the years I've often commented how well our Kiwi cousins convert their talented youngsters into the finished product.

Here's where the history lesson kicks in. Prior to the 2014 Reds/Tahs match at Suncorp sucker, me old mucker (suckerforred for those who don't know) dragged me along to a pre-match Reds function at the old/new iceworks place in Paddington. Knuckles Connolly was the guest speaker, and I was horrified/delighted to hear him predict the Tahs were a monte that night. Later, I got him in a corner (he and I fellow Marist OBs 'n' all) and interrogated him about two things: 1. why weren't Queensland developing all that natural talent which was so abundant?, and, 2. how come there were so many recurring/regular injuries to this lot? John gave me a succinct reply: "coaching". He went on to give me an example of a recent NZ tour he was involved in and expanded on the quality of coaching across the ditch: he opined it was so much superior to ours. What could I say in reply than other agree?

Knuckles reply, "coaching", says it all. Which brings me to my current observation: the last few years in Brisbane seem to be a constant continuum of talked-up-talented youngsters who're going to conquer the known world of rugby. The S & C problems of the last four/five years seem to've abated somewhat (they couldn't've got any worse!) but the bringing along of promising youngsters hasn't progressed one bit. In my opinion.

A small step back: I lived in Brisbane from 1976 to 1982 and went to Ballymore every year and cheered for my beloved Waratahs (have you seen my t-shirt?). Yeah, I was there when the locals booed Mark and Glen Ella after Bob Dwyer preferred them to Paul McLean and Roger Gould in his first coaching gig, against Scotland in May 1982. BUT, call me silly, I've always been more concerned about the overall health of Oz rugby. There're two states who've always contributed the vast majority of test players, and on them falls a responsibility to develop players to a test standard.

The present: I have very serious doubts if the current coaching Queensland crew's capable of getting the best out of this Reds squad. Thorn: #1 for mental toughness and physicality, but rugby skills?, jury's out. Totality Tony: mmmmm?, coulda/shoulda at least given us a glimpse of his nurturing skills at a new enterprise such as the Rebels this recent past. Looked closely (with a magnifying glass...) but couldn't see it. Carozza: to be kind, a good back but a learner as a backs coach, unless banging into props' elbows is the go... Forgive me, I jest (sorry, Paul I couldn't resist). Call me callous but results this year seem to be less than promised; I just don't think they can do it. Continually preferring good ole Queensland boys coz they're red above all else isn't a good path to take to improve rugby in Queensland, or anywhere. Maybe we should cut this lot a little slack, the best is yet to come; it MUST come, soon.

This is a young and very talented squad of rugby players at the Reds ATM, but I just can't see the current coaching setup getting the best out of them. Physically and mentally BBT will probably get them to a stage he wants to; however, rugby skillswise, the Reds need something more. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

BTW, please don't accuse me of patronising Queensland, or anybody else in Oz rugby.

Thanks Lindo, top post from someone whom, should the rugby lights ever be turned off in this country, will be last person to leave the room such is your devotion to and love for our code.

Executive summary re many of your telling points that are all well validated by facts: the QRU in its current and recent form is an institution utterly unfit to be responsible for the strategic development of elite rugby in Queensland.

This evident truth is added and abetted by an organisation rivalling the QRU in its level of managerial skills, namely the ARU that props up and subsidises in $s millions per annum its State franchises yet has in place no governance system that defines, demands and imposes performance and rugby standards competency in the local franchise so subsided and invested in by it.

Like a business that just endlessly forks out money to its key subsidiaries without ever insisting they deliver sound financial or commercial results and never changing them when they don't. Who would rationally invest in such a business?

 

[SouthernX]

What this season shows (so far) is that for 2019 we desperately need a team of really good assistants.

I agree with the notion we need to update our assistants next year but I’m gonna give Carozza a pass because he was essentially paired with Brad Thorn in the u20s/NRC so Thorn could be mentored as a coach from somebody who’s been doing it for years.

The pairing of Thorn/Carozza at super rugby level was warranted based on their synergy and the results they had in 2017 but this season our backline is not firing and Carozza must take some fault for that.