Reds v Waratahs, round 19 2014

[Braveheart81]

Partially responsible? Slightly jumped?

Jumped is an absolute statement BH. He either did or he didn't. Kurtley jumped into the tackle. As soon as he did he caused his momentum to be translated from a horizontal direction to a vertical direction, he also lowered the point of contact from the tackler to a position that was far more likely to tip himself and he also made himself more prone to tipping by not having his boots in contact with the ground. They counteract the force of the impact to some degree and help prevent him being flipped.

Johnson went to make a regulation tackle and was yellow carded. There is nothing more he could've done to stop Beale tipping.


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I agree that whether Beale jumped or not is an absolute but there is a large range between keeping your feet firmly planted on the ground and trying to hurdle the defender.

Beale was only just off the ground after trying to execute a pass above the defender arriving to tackle him.

Lifting tackles have been by far the most focused on area of dangerous play in recent years. It has been made incredibly clear that a defender has the ultimate responsibility not to put a player in a dangerous position almost regardless of the tackled player being partially responsible. It isn't nearly good enough to be able to say that the only reason the player was flipped over is because their momentum was going upwards when they went into the tackle.

I completely understand what you're saying but a clear choice has been made that the defender is responsible and has to avoid putting the attacking player in a dangerous position in the tackle.

 

[Scoey]

Have you ever seen Hooper involved in a fight or throw punches at anyone?

So it was a fucking gee up

Soooo you're agreeing with my position that it was even more stupid because it was a gee up?

Yeah the dude is a fucking saint. Never thrown one. Ever. I bet he's never even had an impure thought.

But yeah, again. Missed the point entirely.


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[Train Without a Station]

On the Kepu one did anybody else get bothered by the way the video ref discussed the accuracy and effectiveness of Kepu's punches? Maybe it's just me but I don't think you deserve to go unsanctioned for attempting to punch a guy in the face just because you are a shit punch. You either have intentionally punched or you haven't.

Compare this to the Moore incident, where Moore clearly showed a level of restraint to just punch Quirk in the mid-section, when he would have been defenceless against any attempt at the head.

That's my take on the difference in the sanctions anyway.

 

[Mr Doug]

Sitting in row 30, near the goal posts, gives a great perspective to backline play. One backline looked to have a coach, the other, no. The movement beginning with a beautifully weighted Beale chip kick, resulting in a Beale try, was a gem.
The Reds backs, were shocking, ok, we are missing the 'cream', and lost a few during the match, but any player in the Reds Academy should be able to pass the ball, (not too high, not too low, and to another player wearing the same coloured jumper)! They must also learn to value that ball when it makes contact with their hands, and having gained ground, endeavour to unload that ball behind them, rather than in front of them.
For us, it was one of those matches where "the forwards win the ball, and the backs lose it".
I said to Mrs Doug during the second half "I'm glad Izzy isn't playing, he would have torn this mob apart"!!
I felt sorry for the many young children near us, decked out in their Reds clothing, calling (as one) "we are red, we are red". An adult couple in front of us got up at half time and headed for the exit. By the 70th minute, 40% of the crowd had either left, or was on their way out.
Having been brought up in the bush, I can pick 'country folk' by their attire. There were many country families in the crowd, (being school holidays). Some would have come from the 70% plus areas of Queensland that are drought-affected. A win by the Reds would have been an opportunity for them to be given just a little bit of hope, something positive to take back to their parched paddocks, empty dams, and hungry livestock, but it wasn't to be.
This is an opportunity to suggest that fellow Rugby fans visit the "Buy a Bale" campaign website, and if possible, donate some dollars ($10 minimum) to help struggling families in drought-affected regions.

I was talking to my mate Richo last Tuesday (he called in to borrow my angle-grinder this time). As a "Classic Red", he had been asked by Stan Pilecki, to join his fellow CRs at Reds training that night to suggest to the players that they needed to lift their commitment, and show more 'respect for the jumper'. I haven't spoken to him since, but according to comments in the media, some of the players seem to think that there isn't a problem!

Mrs Doug and I are not looking forward to 'Reds circa 2015' with any great optimism, a feeling shared by the Reds supporters we spoke to whilst waiting at Roma Street Station for a train to take us back to the Gold Coast last night!
Good luck to the Brumbies and Waratahs players, support groups, and fans.
To finish on a positive note, we are looking forward to watching the McWallabies v Pumas at Cbus Super Stadium here on the GC on 13th September!

 

[Pfitzy]

Soooo you're agreeing with my position that it was even more stupid because it was a gee up?

No, I'm saying stop acting like a sanctimonious prick would in this situation.

It was two blokes out on a rugby field having a bit of fun in a game that was already decided. Don't go all bloody dour and judgemental because your team got a big hiding at home to end a miserable season.

On the Kepu one did anybody else get bothered by the way the video ref discussed the accuracy and effectiveness of Kepu's punches? Maybe it's just me but I don't think you deserve to go unsanctioned for attempting to punch a guy in the face just because you are a shit punch. You either have intentionally punched or you haven't.

I think ultimately you've got to look at intent - results all too often take precedence in card issues in the age of instant replay. And in the age of citing the outcome of that action. If someone goes to kick another player in the head but misses, should they be let off? Fuck no!

 

[Dan54]

I was offered tickets to game, quite glad I declined them in end. Prefer to watch games where both teams are giving it there all, Tahs really just played with Reds, and would imagine that Stan Pilecki would be even more pissed off with players when you see Hooper and Gill play fighting during game, not what you really expect from adveraries supposedly 'going for it'

 

[biggsy]

Thanks fuck that season is over.

 

[Pfitzy]

Thanks fuck that season is over.

Right fucking on. As a Tahs fan I can sympathise completely with horror injury runs, lack of experience, piss-poor coaching and other general fuckwittedness from the back office in particular.

My house flooded last weekend, and it gave me the shits. But as the dude ripping out my carpet said: it can only get better from here!

 

[Pete King]

In your opinion they were a gee up. I have no idea what Hooper was thinking when he threw them and all I saw was the Waratahs and Wallabies captain throwing punches after earning a penalty. But don't let that stop you missing my point entirely.

Here's a couple of things that could've transpired after he threw them.
1. Penalty is reversed.
2. Hooper is YC'd
3. Hooper is suspended and misses the semi and or GF.

These things didn't happen but with some of the calls made just in that game alone let alone the weird things that happen at judiciaries should some over zealous match official decide to cite him it's not a big leap for even the smallest minds to make that they could have.

For a guy who is revered as much as he is, that's an incredibly big risk to take just because he lost his cool. If as you so definitely assert, it was a gee up then that make it even more fucking stupid and questionable.

Your post about how it's good to see passion in the game and then references to how anyone who watched the SOO this year would understand disproves your point. This yearning for passion and hate in the SOO is what is solely responsible for dishing up the steaming turd of a series this year. A series that has turned a lot of people I know off league.

So thanks for your suggestions and backhanded insult that I'd be better off watching badminton but I'll stick to Rugby.


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Well I dont think that Hooper, Chieka, Mckenzie, Gill or 99 per cent of the australian rugby community are losing any sleep over the incident Scoey but if you want to talk it up on here to something it wasnt thats your perogative and be my guest.

The SOO series this year was so shit because there was a blanket rule after Gallen gave myles a flogging last year that any player who threw a punch was immediately off the field. So instead we had game two where there was 80 minutes of hand slapping, niggling on the ground to incite each other to throw a punch.

anyone who has ever played the game should understand its a physical contest where you are putting your body on the line. Things inveitably boil over a little hear and there but its left on the field.

 

[Pete King]

Anyway Scoey the QLD Firebirds made the final this year maybe your better off following them then the reds, although the girls do throw the odd elbow here and there....... even the revered players.

 

[Scoey]

I agree that whether Beale jumped or not is an absolute but there is a large range between keeping your feet firmly planted on the ground and trying to hurdle the defender.

Beale was only just off the ground after trying to execute a pass above the defender arriving to tackle him.

Lifting tackles have been by far the most focused on area of dangerous play in recent years. It has been made incredibly clear that a defender has the ultimate responsibility not to put a player in a dangerous position almost regardless of the tackled player being partially responsible. It isn't nearly good enough to be able to say that the only reason the player was flipped over is because their momentum was going upwards when they went into the tackle.

I completely understand what you're saying but a clear choice has been made that the defender is responsible and has to avoid putting the attacking player in a dangerous position in the tackle.

You've used the phrase, "the defender has the ultimate responsibility to avoid/not put the attacking player in a dangerous position" which I agree with completely.

We've had this chat a few times this season on this issue discussing slightly different scenarios. In the Beale/Johnson situation the defending player did avoid putting the attacking player in the dangerous position. The only thing that Johnson is guilty of is not rescuing Beale once he had gotten himself into a dangerous position.


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[Ash]

Funny sort of game. Reds dominated the lineout, had the better of the scrums (although somehow couldn't buy a penalty), and were allowed to steal / disrupt a lot of ball (plenty of it questionable). They had more clean line breaks. They had more territory and more time in the opposition 22. And that's pretty much where it ended for them.

Tahs scored some cracking tries, and took their chances. Whenever the Tahs went wide the Reds looked in real trouble. With not much difference in the forwards (although the Tahs forwards were better out wide and offloading), the Tahs backs won the game.

Congrats to the Tahs, deserved victory. Beale in particular the main instigator.

Reds, meanwhile, a shambles on attack. Losing Lucas and then Taps was bad enough on top of the injury count, but you still expect them to be able to catch and pass regardless at this level. Which the Reds backs couldn't do. Just shocking. Not to mention 30 missed tackles on top of that.

Schatz and Gale should've been better off a stable scrum, allowing Phipps to disrupt good ball. JJT looks dangerous at times, but makes so many errors on attack, and in particular on defence. Kerevi tried to do too much, and as a result made a mess of it fairly often.

Anyone know what excuses Graham offered up this time?

 

[Scoey]

No, I'm saying stop acting like a sanctimonious prick would in this situation.

It was two blokes out on a rugby field having a bit of fun in a game that was already decided. Don't go all bloody dour and judgemental because your team got a big hiding at home to end a miserable season.

What exactly is sanctimonious about what I wrote? I've seen players carded for less. If you're happy with your captain heading into your first finals appearance and your best shot at a championship ever not focussing on playing and doing stuff that can get him carded or suspended then power to you.


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[Scoey]

Well I dont think that Hooper, Chieka, Mckenzie, Gill or 99 per cent of the australian rugby community are losing any sleep over the incident Scoey but if you want to talk it up on here to something it wasnt thats your perogative and be my guest.

The SOO series this year was so shit because there was a blanket rule after Gallen gave myles a flogging last year that any player who threw a punch was immediately off the field. So instead we had game two where there was 80 minutes of hand slapping, niggling on the ground to incite each other to throw a punch.

anyone who has ever played the game should understand its a physical contest where you are putting your body on the line. Things inveitably boil over a little hear and there but its left on the field.

I've explained my issue with it enough and you've either missed the point by a country mile every time or are just more interested in playing the man. Your last post is straight up flaming. Grow up.


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[Train Without a Station]

Nobody thought squeak's punch to the guts of quirk made him a poor captaincy option. Let's move on.

 

[RugbyReg]

I was offered tickets to game, quite glad I declined them in end. Prefer to watch games where both teams are giving it there all, Tahs really just played with Reds, and would imagine that Stan Pilecki would be even more pissed off with players when you see Hooper and Gill play fighting during game, not what you really expect from adveraries supposedly 'going for it'

Did you watch the game? The reds gave their all, particularly the pack. I agree with Stan (and most) that the effort v the 4s was lacking but it wasn't last night. We were just let down by skill, option taking and fitness again.

 

[biggsy]

I blame the onesie for the lost.....

Due to major distraction from the field

 

[BDA]

I thought the reds forwards competed well. too bad the backs couldn't back up that good work. Fingers crossed that an off season reset and the addition of Genia, Cooper, JOC (James O'Connor), CFS will lead to a better 2015

 

[James Kelly]

The Waratahs will be stoked they made the right decisions on new players for the season.

 

[tranquility]

The Waratahs will be stoked they made the right decisions on new players for the season.

Cmon man, the Waratahs hardly need to "make" any decisions at all. If they want a player, the ARU makes it happen. It doesn't exactly bother me, but let's not pretend the other franchises were out managed from a list point of view.