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Round 16 - Reds vs Waratahs - Saturday 2 June - 7:45pm @ Suncorp

Derpus

Phil Kearns (64)
Who the fuck are these 'waratahs'? Named after a flower? Pathetic. Thor eats flowers as a light snack. Reds to destroy tahs. The maroon jumper the reds wear will cause the blood of many great Queenslanders before them to enter their veins and they will have nothing but total hatred of those blue-shirted b*****s. They will only have one mission - crush all those in sky blue. Major punch up around the 50-60 minute mark. Reds to win by 30 points. 2 penalty tries from the scrum. 3 NSW p;ayers marched to the bin. Whinging all they way across NSW about how "we wuz robbed". The overpaid primadonnas (tahs) will feel the wrath of the hard Queensland men who will belt them from pillar to post.
That's kinda weird ay
 

Tomikin

Paul McLean (56)
The players we can say are outright better than their counter parts from last week:
  1. JP Smith
  2. BPA
  3. Too Close
  4. Rodda
  5. Simmons
  6. ASY likely too close (consider will likely be Timu/Higgers)
  7. Hooper (but genuinely close)
  8. Higgers (or Timu)
  9. Phipps
  10. Foley
  11. Naiyaravoro
  12. Beale
  13. Kerevi
  14. Perese
  15. Folau
So the Reds perhaps have 7 spots the Waratahs have 7 with Kepu and Tupou basically being for the starting Wallabies spot. I do think the Reds likely just win the bench battle.
While I agree the overall quality of the Waratahs is likely a little bit better but the thing with the Reds is they are very inconsistent while that can often lead to a 60 point loss to a shit team it can also lead to a 10 point win against a very good team.

I expect the Reds to lose, but not because they are worse, because they are still figuring out how to win. But Reds by 10.
Inexperience young lock at Rodda his 21.. And a senior player..oh wait that was Thorn last week..

As a natural my thoughts -.Front row pretty even but Reds Scrum probably a bit more dominant. 2nd row slightly Red but it depends on which Simmons turns up. Back row. I'd say slightly Tahs at the moment Hooper's just a machine.

Halves Tahs country mile.
Centres Beale and Rona are in better form and better plays.
Back 3 while the Reds have good players. The Tahs have a back 3 of specific design that is playing better or just plan better.

Tahs by 7 - 14 points..

Sent from my HTC 2PS6200 using Tapatalk
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
The reality for the Reds is they need to dominate in the forwards if they are likely to win because the Tahs have a significant advantage in the backline.

In the first meeting this year the Reds forwards didn't get close to getting on top of the Tahs and as a result the Reds were soundly beaten.

The Tahs need to play like their season is on the line because it well and truly is.
 

fatprop

Jason Little (69)
Staff member
The reality for the Reds is they need to dominate in the forwards if they are likely to win because the Tahs have a significant advantage in the backline.

In the first meeting this year the Reds forwards didn't get close to getting on top of the Tahs and as a result the Reds were soundly beaten.

The Tahs need to play like their season is on the line because it well and truly is.


The Reds need to pick & go, scrum and maul the Tahs to death, just grind them into the ground
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Bar the scrum, to me it's absolutely evident that, whatever they're doing, the Tahs' coaches are doing a far better job from Round 1 through to Round 15 than the Reds' coaches at:

- improving the coherence, shape and execution consistency of the Tahs' attack​
- lowering the Tahs' unforced error rates overall​
- improving the quality if the Tahs' forwards' work-rate and technical efficiency in broken play​
- generally improving the accuracy and speed of the team's offloading ability​
- lowering lineout error rates (at the throw or otherwise)​

Simply put, the Reds' 2018 coaches have made significantly less improvements in the same aspects of Reds' rugby skill over this Super season; that's not to say no improvements, but not enough and essentially that's why the Reds currently have a large -ve PD that's the 2nd worse in the comp and why their performances are so unpredictable as to skills execution and _productive_ intensity of effort.
 

fatprop

Jason Little (69)
Staff member
Bar the scrum, to me it's absolutely evident that, whatever they're doing, the Tahs' coaches are doing a far better job from Round 1 through to Round 15 than the Reds' coaches at:

- improving the coherence, shape and execution consistency of the Tahs' attack​
- lowering the Tahs' unforced error rates overall​
- improving the quality if the Tahs' forwards' work-rate and technical efficiency in broken play​
- generally improving the accuracy and speed of the team's offloading ability​
- lowering lineout error rates (at the throw or otherwise)​

Simply put, the Reds' 2018 coaches have made significantly less improvements in the same aspects of Reds' rugby skill over this Super season; that's not to say no improvements, but not enough and essentially that's why the Reds currently have a large -ve PD that's the 2nd worse in the comp and why their performances are so unpredictable as to skills execution and _productive_ intensity of effort.

The tahs improvement is over a couple of seasons, not just this season, they scored plenty of tries last season as well, but leaked too many. There were moments last season, there are just more this season

They get their fitness sorted and the errors drop

They buy a lineout tactician and their lineout improves
 

Brumby Runner

Tim Horan (67)
Tahs attack is the most coherent and successful in the Aus conference. The downside is that their defense is very iffy, though better than last year. Let in 6 tries last weekend. That will need to improve, not just for the Tahs sake, but higher as well.

I will be most interested in watching the scrums battle. Just on last weeks outing, the TH side of the Tahs scrum got shafted. It will be interesting to see how JP Smith with Rodda(?) behind him matches up to Kepu with Simmons behind him. If Douglas starts in place of Hockings, then the Reds will win the battle of the forwards.

Could be a close run match, but if the Tahs backs turn up in defense, they will win.
 
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Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
Tahs have conceded 2 more tries than the Brumbies, 4 less than the Rebels and 7 less than the Reds.

I agree their defence needs to improve but it's certainly not an Achilles heel in relation to the other Aussie sides.
 

Zero_Cool

Arch Winning (36)
Tahs attack is the most coherent and successful in the Aus conference. The downside is that their defense is very iffy, though better than last year. Let in 6 tries last weekend. That will need to improve, not just for the Tahs sake, but higher as well.

I will be most interested in watching the scrums battle. Just on last weeks outing, the TH side of the Tahs scrum got shafted. It will be interesting to see how JP Smith with Rodda(?) behind him matches up to Kepu with Simmons behind him. If Douglas starts in place of Hockings, then the Reds will win the battle of the forwards.

Could be a close run match, but if the Tahs backs turn up in defense, they will win.

I actually think Hockings has a decent chance of keeping his starting spot, he played pretty well and the scrum almost looked better (?) with him in there. He's a bit more mobile than Rodda and Douglas and that's probably what keeps him in the side if we bring Timu back with Smith and Higgers.


Tahs have conceded 2 more tries than the Brumbies, 4 less than the Rebels and 7 less than the Reds.


I agree their defence needs to improve but it's certainly not an Achilles heel in relation to the other Aussie sides.


I think the difference between the Reds and Waratahs isn't in the outright number of tries they conceded, especially when compared to the Reds. The Reds have had a number of games that have become utter blow outs (like the 'Jags vs Tahs). So I think the overall number is a bit deceptive. The eyeball test says the Reds defence when they aren't playing poorly is pretty good. The Waratahs is pretty average even at the best of times.
 

cyclopath

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Staff member
I actually think Hockings has a decent chance of keeping his starting spot, he played pretty well and the scrum almost looked better (?) with him in there. He's a bit more mobile than Rodda and Douglas and that's probably what keeps him in the side if we bring Timu back with Smith and Higgers.




I think the difference between the Reds and Waratahs isn't in the outright number of tries they conceded, especially when compared to the Reds. The Reds have had a number of games that have become utter blow outs (like the 'Jags vs Tahs). So I think the overall number is a bit deceptive. The eyeball test says the Reds defence when they aren't playing poorly is pretty good. The Waratahs is pretty average even at the best of times.
It would depend on whether you actually process what your eyeball sees.
The Tahs have the 5th best defence in the comp by points conceded, only 9 more than the 4th best; the 5th best in terms of Points Differential as well. Both of which would be above average. Like most teams, they have had matches when they have lapsed a bit defensively, but it's hard to see any evidence for the Reds having a better defence. Of course you take out their 2 worst performances, like you did for the Reds, and they would be even better.
See what I did there?
 

Brumby Runner

Tim Horan (67)
Tahs have conceded 2 more tries than the Brumbies, 4 less than the Rebels and 7 less than the Reds.

I agree their defence needs to improve but it's certainly not an Achilles heel in relation to the other Aussie sides.

The other Aussie sides are hardly a good measuring stick BH for a side that has aspirations to finals football. However, they should be in a good place for the game against the Reds.
 

cyclopath

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Staff member
The other Aussie sides are hardly a good measuring stick BH for a side that has aspirations to finals football. However, they should be in a good place for the game against the Reds.

Actually, the tries conceded numbers / defence stats for Aus teams generally stack up well against the SA conference. But several of their teams score quite a few more too, so are doing better. The Kiwis, however are another thing.
 

Up the Guts

Andrew Slack (58)
The tahs improvement is over a couple of seasons, not just this season, they scored plenty of tries last season as well, but leaked too many. There were moments last season, there are just more this season

They get their fitness sorted and the errors drop

They buy a lineout tactician and their lineout improves
I would also add they solve problems and adjust their tactics better on the run than the other Australian sides. They got pushed off their ball early last weekend but then adjusted and got the ball out much more quickly and they had no further problems. The week before when the Higlanders lost a player they kicked for space well and used the overlap well by putting it through the hands rather than ridiculous cutouts.
 
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