RWC QF 3 IRE v ARG (Millenium Stadium) 18th Oct 2300 AEDT

[Bardon]

Irelands game plan relies on Sexton. He is the best tactical kicker the squad has but also the best passer, without him the whole team stops clicking.

It's odd seeing the 6N back to back champions get beaten so convincingly. It makes the 6N seem so redundant when it leads to this on the grand stage. Where do all the NH teams go from here?

That's the problem with Ireland and it was the problem with Australia until this year too. If your game plan relies on individuals for you to be dangerous then they can be targeted. If it's your systems that creates the danger for the opposition than that's much harder to stop.

Not saying good players don't make a difference but when they have excellent systems too then they shine even more brightly. Putting so much pressure on Maddigan to make something happen reminds me of the Wallaby days when people were crying out for players with X-Factor to be in the team to make something happen.

Give those players the right systems and mentality and then let them exploit the space it creates rather than trying to create the space themselves.

Ireland have plenty of tallented players on attack but out systems too often have them crabbing across the field and then hoping for Henshaw, Fitzgerald, Zebo etc. to make something happen from well behind the gainline. Then if they do break so often there isn't enough support to finish it off.

Both Kearneys offer little in attack. Everyone knows Rob is going to jog back up and kick it and Dave rarely picks a running line that would invite someone to put him through a hole. I don't think you can have both of them in the same Ireland team. You need a Zebo or Gilroy type who's going to have the gas or the evasiveness to make it worth putting them in behind the opposition defence.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Irelands game plan relies on Sexton. He is the best tactical kicker the squad has but also the best passer, without him the whole team stops clicking.

It's odd seeing the 6N back to back champions get beaten so convincingly. It makes the 6N seem so redundant when it leads to this on the grand stage. Where do all the NH teams go from here?

First of all, they need to get rid of the types of players who are the "best tactical kickers" and start playing proper rugby.

 

[Omar Comin']

It's been good to see Argentina transforming their game. They've struggled with it for the past 2 or 3 years, but the signs of improvement have been there. What a time for it to really click. Great to see attacking rugby winning out.

 

[Bardon]

It's been good to see Argentina transforming their game. They've struggled with it for the past 2 or 3 years, but the signs of improvement have been there. What a time for it to really click. Great to see attacking rugby winning out.

Hopefully they didn't play their final tonight and can make a real game of the SF.

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

First of all, they need to get rid of the types of players who are the "best tactical kickers" and start playing proper rugby.

Sexton is one of the finest distributors of the ball in world rugby.

 

[qwerty51]

Sexton is one of the finest distributors of the ball in world rugby.

So why he is putting high bombs up when Ireland are attacking 30m out?

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

We won't go anywhere, it'll be the same arm wrestling contest every season. And we'll stay where we are now.
Don't think basic skills in the NH will ever match the south.
Too much emphasis on power & defence.
Wales have players like Matthew Morgan & Jordan Williams who are very talented but pigeonholed as too small/not powerful enough & are left on the fringes of selection in regional rugby never mind international. We highlight weakness in these players instead of delighting in their quality. You could argue the same for Zebo with Ireland - supremely talented & able to conjure something out of nothing but kept out by the power of Kearney.
The whole ethos of rugby needs to change in the northern hemisphere. But it won't.

In NZ and SA rugby is life and kids have rugby balls in their hands at a young age. But they do in Wales too. In Aus and Argentina rugby union is by far the second fiddle to other sports. So based on that it's hard to believe their grass roots structures and giving them better skill sets from the off.

Maybe it's a bit too harsh. I think any top five team missing their four best players would've lost to this Argentina team.they were mesmeric today and a step too far for the replacements.

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

So why he is putting high bombs up when Ireland are attacking 30m out?

Half backs are the on field generals, if they willingly ignore the coaches tactics they shouldn't be selected. Besides Irelands game plans have worked in the past with back to back 6N's and a four on the trot win streak over the SH teams before this. Ironically it was today when the 10 didn't put bombs in the air that the team got a hammering.

 

[Gnostic]

We won't go anywhere, it'll be the same arm wrestling contest every season. And we'll stay where we are now.
Don't think basic skills in the NH will ever match the south.
Too much emphasis on power & defence.
Wales have players like Matthew Morgan & Jordan Williams who are very talented but pigeonholed as too small/not powerful enough & are left on the fringes of selection in regional rugby never mind international. We highlight weakness in these players instead of delighting in their quality. You could argue the same for Zebo with Ireland - supremely talented & able to conjure something out of nothing but kept out by the power of Kearney.
The whole ethos of rugby needs to change in the northern hemisphere. But it won't.

if the emphasis is on power and defence why do the NH side struggle at both with the SH sides. The power game in the north seems to have gone for the biggest players that can been found and the teams are ponderous and deskilled as a result.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Ripsnorter of a game that was enjoyable to watch even though I ended up tipping Ireland in a close match, after changing tips about 5 times during the week.

Los Pumas just too good across the park.

Only 1 Arm wrestle of a SF so far. Hoping the next SF lives up to expectations as well.

 

[mxyzptlk]

It's odd seeing the 6N back to back champions get beaten so convincingly. It makes the 6N seem so redundant when it leads to this on the grand stage. Where do all the NH teams go from here?

I really think not much will change until the NH stops playing in the NH winter, and shifts its season. The World Cup is played in crisp fall weather, and that's good for a certain kind of game, but it's not a game the NH teams have been playing for years now. The Top 14, Premiership and Pro 12 generally play in sludge, sleet and occasional snow on heavy, wet winter pitches, and play a style that resists passing because it's harder to retain possession in those conditions. It tends to be a collision- and territory-oriented game, which can be picked apart of a good, clinical, professional side. (Although Glasgow under Townsend and Leinster under Schmidt suggest otherwise, but Harlequins under O'Shea only make a predominantly running-and-offloading style work some of the time in the Premiership.)

Plus the SH semifinalists all just finished playing a series of Test matches against each other only a month before the RWC kicked off, while the NH sides were coming off a break and then playing meaningless warm-up games. Before those games, most of the NH players were something like 10 or more weeks off. They play more overall club rugby in worse conditions, and their schedule doesn't provide the best lead-in to the World Cup.

Short of putting hybrid pitches in and roofs up over every European stadium, or playing the 6N in July and August, or playing the RWC in February in Scotland, this will likely be the state of things for the foreseeable future.

 

[Bardon]

In NZ and SA rugby is life and kids have rugby balls in their hands at a young age. But they do in Wales too. In Aus and Argentina rugby union is by far the second fiddle to other sports. So based on that it's hard to believe their grass roots structures and giving them better skill sets from the off.

Maybe it's a bit too harsh. I think any top five team missing their four best players would've lost to this Argentina team.they were mesmeric today and a step too far for the replacements.

The problem with Ireland isn't necessarily the skill levels it's the cohesion. It takes at least a season of International rugby to bed in a major tactical change. A lot of very talented Wallabies were dropping the pill last year as they adapted to Cheika's attacking philosophy.

Ireland need to do something similar, accept that there will be no 6Ns title this season but bed in a system that will reap rewards in the long run.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Wales have players like Matthew Morgan & Jordan Williams who are very talented but pigeonholed as too small/not powerful enough & are left on the fringes of selection in regional rugby never mind international. We highlight weakness in these players instead of delighting in their quality. You could argue the same for Zebo with Ireland - supremely talented & able to conjure something out of nothing but kept out by the power of Kearney.

Mentioned this a week or so ago, but players like Matt Giteau and Bernard Foley should demonstrate that skill and technique are as if not more important to an effective game. No one watches rugby to see the NFL.

 

[Alex]

My son plays under 11s in Dublin. One thing that strikes me is how heavily teams focus on blitz defence at a young age. It is very effective because kids that age can't execute skills under pressure and so an effective blitz will go along way towards winning the game - but it hampers skills development. Passing is too risky so the fast kids take the ball at fly half and end up running backwards to try and get around the defence. We need to work harder in this hemisphere to encourage kids to move the ball and reward them for doing so in games. If we start doing when they are kids, it will be second nature when they are teenagers. We are a long way off that.

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

The problem with Ireland isn't necessarily the skill levels it's the cohesion. It takes at least a season of International rugby to bed in a major tactical change. A lot of very talented Wallabies were dropping the pill last year as they adapted to Cheika's attacking philosophy.

Ireland need to do something similar, accept that there will be no 6Ns title this season but bed in a system that will reap rewards in the long run.

I hope Schmidt stays for one more RWC cycle. I'd love to see how four more years, with learning lessons from this, could work out.

 

[mxyzptlk]

The problem with Ireland isn't necessarily the skill levels it's the cohesion. It takes at least a season of International rugby to bed in a major tactical change. A lot of very talented Wallabies were dropping the pill last year as they adapted to Cheika's attacking philosophy.

Ireland need to do something similar, accept that there will be no 6Ns title this season but bed in a system that will reap rewards in the long run.

That's what Gregor Townsend did with Glasgow, and it's been paying off.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Sexton is one of the finest distributors of the ball in world rugby.

No he isn't. And, anyway, I would be surprised if his head gets through this season.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Half backs are the on field generals, if they willingly ignore the coaches tactics they shouldn't be selected. Besides Irelands game plans have worked in the past with back to back 6N's and a four on the trot win streak over the SH teams before this. Ironically it was today when the 10 didn't put bombs in the air that the team got a hammering.

Plus it's about putting the ball and the opposition in a place where you want them and you can take advantage of them, it's not just "here, you take the ball." When they have a chase and a solid breakdown game going -- and Ireland had the most successful rucks of any side in the pool matches (around 98%) -- that can be a good strategy for getting territory fast and leaving the opposition disorganized. But it depends on precision and being clinical. Losing the sharp-shooter, two breakdown specialists and the forwards general didn't help.

One reason Ireland should probably re-evaluate that strategy is because Sexton just seems fragile. Saw something the other day about how he hasn't finished a single Test match yet under Schmidt. Sure, sometimes he's just replaced, but not always, and he has a worrying tendency to try and match forwards in upper-body collisions -- something even the New Zealand giants don't really do.

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

No he isn't. And, anyway, I would be surprised if his head gets through this season.

He has excellent passing. It's just the last season the game plan internationally hasn't focused on running rugby. His long range passing, pop passing and importantly passing to the right channel at the right time are unrivaled in the team and Europe, I'd only place Carter ahead of him in that regard.

 

[Dewald Nel]

Argies crying like babies. Ooh are Ireland in deep trouble here.

As I was saying...