School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Inside Shoulder]

Hugh Jarse I'm backing conspiracy theory 2.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Didn't Junior Inside Shoulder help you with D Horwitz identification or Tracksuit identification (or something similar) as you drove past Moore Park ovals during the Tah's pre season?

They're not entirely useless.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Didn't Junior Inside Shoulder help you with D Horwitz identification or Tracksuit identification (or something similar) as you drove past Moore Park ovals during the Tah's pre season?

They're not entirely useless.

I still haven't recovered from the abuse

 

[Kenny Powers]

Would these kids have got a game if they had stayed at their comprehensive high schools?
Are more kids playing rugby than would have been? I suspect "yes" because some/many/most (?) are league players for whom this is the only union they play.
I doubt they are prevented from playing village rugby by their schools - they probably are by the NRL clubs to which they are attached though! Compare the number of old boys of Westfield Sports High playing in the NRL mentioned on their "prospectus" with the numbers mentioned in the Union section.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

IS I'll take your post as an endorsement of the current situation in the CHS system.

So a scholarship system or a concentration of sporting talent in a selective sports high schools in the CHS system is acceptable. Regular CHS schools are so depleted of talent to the extent they get lapped by the selective sports high schools that the games become uncompetitive and they have dropped out of the competition. Is that acceptable even though it mirrors the experience in the GPS of Grammar and High? And its not like they go to a lower grade they stop playing altogether. Just doesn't get the media coverage of the GPS.

A scholarship type system in GPS does not have your endorsement that's clear from your posts.

I suspect that if the selective sports high schools (even though they are league centric) did not exist those players that would have gone to them would be making approaches or being approached by GPS schools. Creating a bigger issue around scholarship and imports in the GPS.

 

[Quick Hands]

Reading the Waratah Shield thread, there are only 3 regular state high schools entered, but 4 selective sports high.

This accounts for up to 80 players who have been given what is effectively a scholarship to entice them away from regular high schools.

Whilst what is going on in the GPS/CAS may not be ideal isn't what is going on with selective sports high schools in the CHS of far greater concern to school level rugby (and all sports for that matter) and involves greater numbers.

Generates few comments on this thread however.

You're right to the extent that those players have been effectively "poached" from nearby comprehensive schools. However, I would say that generally these boys have little interest in the academic process and go to sports high schools so they can play as much sport and do as little school work as possible. I'd also add that there is no longer a Wednesday afternoon competition for boys at comprehensive schools to play in - they can play soccer or touch football.

Comprehensive state high schools have regrettably become the place where students (mostly but not always) go when they can't: afford a private school, or get into a selective school or technology high school or win a scholarship/bursary to a private school. This process has been 15-20 years in the making.

 

[random2]

Conspiracy theory 4 - They were in Dubbo for the One Night Stand/Muster and just wanted a game of footy...

 

[Jasdec]

Definitely theory 4.
Thank you for your insightful response HJ.
I was particularly interested in your analysis of the boys and more so the ramifications of their actions. It really is a sad state of affairs when you can't rock up to a game and pull on some borrowed boots and have a crack just for the love of it.

 

[Man on the hill]

If you attend Milner oval on Finals day for the state age champs & the pool games for (particularly) the 14's & 15's you would be surprised how many clip board wielding directors of rugby from the GPS & CAS are in attendance. Thankfully (?) most of them have the manners not to wear their school tracksuits or otherwise make their presence tooo obvious.

 

[CTPE]

If you attend Milner oval on Finals day for the state age champs & the pool games for (particularly) the 14's & 15's you would be surprised how many clip board wielding directors of rugby from the GPS & CAS are in attendance. Thankfully (?) most of them have the manners not to wear their school tracksuits or otherwise make their presence tooo obvious.

There's always plenty of League scouts there as well and also at the State Schools Championships.

 

[CTPE]

You're right to the extent that those players have been effectively "poached" from nearby comprehensive schools. However, I would say that generally these boys have little interest in the academic process and go to sports high schools so they can play as much sport and do as little school work as possible. I'd also add that there is no longer a Wednesday afternoon competition for boys at comprehensive schools to play in - they can play soccer or touch football.

Comprehensive state high schools have regrettably become the place where students (mostly but not always) go when they can't: afford a private school, or get into a selective school or technology high school or win a scholarship/bursary to a private school. This process has been 15-20 years in the making.

Other than your second sentence, I agree with the other statements you've made. The interesting thing about Sports High Schools, as I understand it, is that only about 50% of the attendees are "elite young sports persons"(EYSP's) - apparently there's a requirement of sorts that an equal number of places be available to local non-EYSP students who live within the school's catchment area.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Definitely theory 4.
Thank you for your insightful response HJ.
I was particularly interested in your analysis of the boys and more so the ramifications of their actions. It really is a sad state of affairs when you can't rock up to a game and pull on some borrowed boots and have a crack just for the love of it.

Unfortunately the concept of competition, competition tables, winning (frequently vicariously), and records has ruined the idea that you can have a game of footy just for fun.

As "loopholes" exist in certain competition rules they are exploited to the maximum by individuals and organizations he'll bent on winning at all costs and if in doing so they suck the fun out of it for everyone else then they don't care. It is not their problem: as long as their mob wins , that is all that counts.

Rugby: Just for fun only exists in very small enclaves and normally at the lowest level (school C's and below, 3rd division or grade or below). It is sheep stations at stake at all other levels for many. Lawyers and Insurances weigh heavily on the minds of many in our game, often to the detriment of the pursuit of enjoyment.

I'd like to think that there was nothing sinister in what the lads were doing but I have been around long enough to have seen all the stunts used that would turn those actions to an advantage either to secure the services of them in a future competition, or to ensure that they were unable to be used by ones opponent at a later date.

Imagine if Quade Cooper, Nathan Sharpe and Michael Hooper lobbed up to play for KOB in a Subbies footy competition round, just because they happened to be in town and wanted a bit of a run around. Apart from making Barbarian very happy, I'm not sure that many others would be all that happy.

 

[Brian Westlake]

There's always plenty of League scouts there as well and also at the State Schools Championships.

It is worse at the League Carnivals, with Player managers attending.

 

[Quick Hands]

Other than your second sentence, I agree with the other statements you've made. The interesting thing about Sports High Schools, as I understand it, is that only about 50% of the attendees are "elite young sports persons"(EYSP's) - apparently there's a requirement of sorts that an equal number of places be available to local non-EYSP students who live within the school's catchment area.

The second sentence is based on conversations that I had with players that I coached at colts level. I simply asked them why they went to a sports high school and that was the response that they gave me. They were quite open about it, the put their names down for every sport that they could fit in to maximise time out of the classroom. This was about 10 years ago now.

 

[gpsoldboy]

You're right to the extent that those players have been effectively "poached" from nearby comprehensive schools. However, I would say that generally these boys have little interest in the academic process and go to sports high schools so they can play as much sport and do as little school work as possible. I'd also add that there is no longer a Wednesday afternoon competition for boys at comprehensive schools to play in - they can play soccer or touch football.

Comprehensive state high schools have regrettably become the place where students (mostly but not always) go when they can't: afford a private school, or get into a selective school or technology high school or win a scholarship/bursary to a private school. This process has been 15-20 years in the making.

Have a look at the CHS 2013 thread to see the make up of the CHS Team currently touring NZ.

 

[beserker]

I wonder how many coaches are having to stick with scholarship players who are now being over taken by their non scholarship school mates? Where do they go in this dog eat dog world?

 

[rugbyscribe]

I wonder how many coaches are having to stick with scholarship players who are now being over taken by their non scholarship school mates? Where do they go in this dog eat dog world?

It would certainly be a bad look for those in charge if the "chosen ones" are playing in the 2nds or 3rds. Must really upset some of the fee paying parents to see them with permanent gold passes for the 1sts when better performing players are not given an opportunity.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

My heart bleeds for the lot of them

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Which "chosen ones" are now the "unchosen ones"? I'm intrigued.

Seeing that they are all Citizenship scholarships anyway, as long as they are developing as Good Citizens, there will be no issues. Don't know what the fuss is about.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Sydney GPS 2013

Well said GPS row
Beening Old Boy myself I cannot forget that period in Newington's rugby history, where we simply made up the numbers for the other GPS schools to run all over us. I remember talking to another old boy, one Saturaday and he mentioned how he just wanted to cry every Sunday Morning upon reading the GPS rugby results concerning Newington. So to those critics who cast a dose of moral outrage at Newington's improved rugby results over last couple of years because of some selfrighteous belief that we are buying GPS Championships let we remind you ,gentleman, that rugby is a team game. You can have champion players in your team but it will not ensure you of a priemiership. Just ask the Kings coach of 2010 who had 8 Australian schoolboys in his side.
If Newington wins this year it will be because of commitment by our boys, team and school spirit, mateship, excellence of coaching and teamwork. Yes we have some greater players but we also and more importantly have the basis of great team with a positive winning culture. In this matter check out our rugby site and message conveyed by the Captain of our 2012 1st XV as to how we approach our games. It is uplifting and very Australian.
Also on the stairs leading to the Johnson Oval are the words that define the efforts of Australian diggers during the Battle of the Kokoda Track. Please when visiting read those words and you will appreciate the approach Newington has as a rugby school.
With 10 GPS matches the competition now sets new levels of phyiscal and mental intensity, so these qualities will have to be in abudance for all GPS schools. So to those critics who wish to hide behind a sense of moral outrage please quote those words and our 2012 Captain's speech, before boring us again with the your ill-thoughout, selfrighteous comments about Newington rugby.

Warwick
This is delusional balderdash.
How many of this years Newington 1st XV have been acquired so you can overcome your feeling of worthlessness because your school didn't win a few games of rugby?

 

[Rugby Mum]

Conspiracy theory 4 - They were in Dubbo for the One Night Stand/Muster and just wanted a game of footy.

Spot on Randon, but not One night stand Concert, but the Macquarie Muster put on by the terrific Country parents.