School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[TheKing]

In any event, getting back on topic, it seems to me that an Old Boy or "dad" is unlikely to be too concerned about the career prospects of some kid parachuted into a school simply for one season or so of rugby glory - once out of sight, out of mind - as with the present system there will be plenty of others just like him coming along each year.

That's a good point, and well said too.

Brian Westlake I've heard of the schoolboy broadcasting in New Zealand before, and it had me thinking recently about the feasibility of such an operation.

Even though most would say that "It's only schoolboy rugby, boys should concentrate on studies and not playing on television" if the 'arms race' (as it's been so aptly named) continues to progress exponentially like it has been recently, with the players sole goal to play Rugby at a high level and not so much of an educational focus, it wouldn't surprise me if a national schoolboy competition like the one in New Zealand was implemented. If rugby ever got to that point in Australia a TV deal would surely come knocking soon.

If it does, will the arms race continue or even grow faster, eventually becoming an intrinsic part of the competition?

Maybe the best way to regulate the arms race and avoid situations like this Player X midyear entry fiasco entirely would be to accept it and move on. Having their college football games on TV hasn't seemed to stop American students from concentrating on their studies if they so choose, and there are methods imposed on the players themselves to make sure they maintain their studies.

What are the forum's thoughts? I'd love to foster some debate on the merits of this with anyone interested.

 

[TheKing]

Jean Charl-Smith began at Nudgee this year and came from Western Australia after being scouted in the U16 national championships as well as being the the National Gold Squad and being apart of the Western Force Academy (http://www.westernforce.com.au/Team/Academy/BankwestAcademy/Level2AcademyProfiles.aspx). He played round 1 against BGS but i'm guessing he is injured at the moment.

Ipswich Grammar brought in a few players from NSW- Izack Rodda, Dallas Flanagan and Dylan Gale (only one of them ended up playing firsts).

The Southport School only have one new player, Joey Fittock. Came from the same place as Matt Gibbon and Franky Calugay.

Brisbane Grammar have two new players, Lachlan Lanskey and Tom Sly- both are league players from Bundaberg.

Gregory Terrace have Nikau Te-rupe and Kyle Leofa.

FlashFlanker I think I noticed you saying Mafi started in under 15s at Nudgee.. I'm fairly certain I remember being terrified of the Nudgee 9A front row of Mafi and Leleisauo, so I think your information is a bit off.

In regards to Terrace, Te-Rupe and Leofa are in this years team, but aren't the only "new students" in the team. Robert Green and Daniel Siteneili started last year.

Brisbane Grammar had several new students last year too, Cam Griffin (injured in round 1), Pat Morrey (injured in round 2), and Zach Laud in addition to Sly and Lanskey in 2013.

If this conversation is to be had, the 2012 and 2013 new students must be recorded too to give a fair assessment. Did Southport, for example, import 12 players in to Grade 11, and import 1 in to Grade 12, and then 2 into Grade 11 of the year below? I'm sure they didn't to that extent, but it's a question that must be asked.

On a side note, how old is Fittock? Is he a year older than his Queenslander team-mates?

 

[Taipan168]

You see U15 two years ago was a year NC obviously struggled even with these boys moving to their local school NC. I have just looked and the U15 A B C results Vs BBC were 77-0, 99-0 and 99-0.

FYI 2011 results:

1st XV 1st NC, 2nd ACGS
2nd XV 1st NC, 2nd TSS
3rd XV 1st NC, 2nd ACGS/TSS/TGS
16A 1st ACGS, 2nd TSS
16B 1st ACGS/TSS/NC

15A 1st NC, 2nd TSS------ I don't see NC struggling in this age group

15B 1st NC, 2nd TSS
14A 1st NC/BSHS
14B 1st NC/BGS
13A 1st NC, 2nd BSHS
13B 1st BSHS, 2nd NC

 

[FlashFlanker]

Sarcasm Taipan. Sarcasm!! If Nudgee can beat BBC in U15s in 2011 by 77-0 in the As, 99-0 in the Bs and 99-0 in the Cs, they obviously were struggling in 2010 before because they needed Hussey and co to bolster the ranks in 2011. (In 2010 this age group NC A team was undefeated. Only one team got within 20 of them!!)

After, as you pointed out, topping the table in U15As two years ago they weren't confident that they could succeed so further influx of new talent last year and then further influx of new talent this year.

Local talent from Illawarra, Alstonville, Townsville, Sunshine Coast etc.

I restate that unfortunately it has led to acceptance by many that continued influx of talent is the only way to win premierships. There is a 'clean hands' doctrine in courts. They don't like litigators coming to court seeking justice when their hands are 'dirty'. Some schools and their supporters refer to other schools emerging practices when their own hands are very very dirty. Probably best to acknowledge their part in initiating the arms race.

 

[Knockers]

FlashFlanker I think I noticed you saying Mafi started in under 15s at Nudgee.. I'm fairly certain I remember being terrified of the Nudgee 9A front row of Mafi and Leleisauo, so I think your information is a bit off.

On a side note, how old is Fittock? Is he a year older than his Queenslander team-mates?

TheKing, I know Leleisuao started at Nudgee in Grade 10 and came from South Australia. Also, Jake Penissi and Conor Young in Nudgee's 2nd XV are late starters at the schools. Penissi from the Sunshine Coast starting in Year 11 last year (played QLD country), and Young from northern NSW after being picked in the NSW country U15 team.

Fittock from TSS is 17 in year 11. I know the TSS schooling ties in with the NSW system so he would be the same age as most of his Year 11 counterparts.

 

[TheKing]

TheKing, I know Leleisuao started at Nudgee in Grade 10 and came from South Australia. Also, Jake Penissi and Conor Young in Nudgee's 2nd XV are late starters at the schools. Penissi from the Sunshine Coast starting in Year 11 last year (played QLD country), and Young from northern NSW after being picked in the NSW country U15 team.

Fittock from TSS is 17 in year 11. I know the TSS schooling ties in with the NSW system so he would be the same age as most of his Year 11 counterparts.

If that's the case I may well be confused about Mafi also.

Thanks Knockers, your depth of knowledge astonishes me. Do you know anything about the rest of the Southport team regarding level of entry?

 

[Jasdec]

I have just been meandering around the IGS website and rugby newsletters and was interested to see the number and variety of sponsors listed, local and national. Any info on what they are sponsoring?
This may have been brought up in previous posts so I aplogise if that is the case, I am a bit lethargic on a Friday arvo at 4.20pm.

 

[Lee Grant]

Fittock from TSS is 17 in year 11. I know the TSS schooling ties in with the NSW system so he would be the same age as most of his Year 11 counterparts.

Yep - he played wing for NSW Schools U/16 last year out of Alstonville High and had an outstanding tournament.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Bursaries are means-tested. They are available to boys entering Years 7 to 11 and provide remission of Tuition and/or Boarding Fees. They differ from Academic Scholarships and are awarded upon consideration of broader criteria.
These Bursaries are based on a combination of financial need, leadership qualities, academic performance, interview and co-curricular abilities.
http://www.tsc.nsw.edu.au/view/admissions/scholarships-and-busaries

One measure of achieving excellence in sport at The Scots College is for us to become the most consistently high-performing school in AAGPS and to be recognized throughout Australia for our dominance in sport.
https://sports.tsc.nsw.edu.au/our-vision/

A bit more subtle, but you get the point.

so there i was chatting with a friend on Facebook. He being a Shore parent suggesting that some schools should be told to play in their own comp, suggesting that Scots and New take things just a little more seriously than the others.
So it occurred to me that some possum might be stirred if I gave him the link to the TSC "vision". So I went looking for the aim to dominate and this is what I found:

Maybe GGR has more influence than we think.
"dominance" replaced with "excellence" - poor language skills or did the original betray the actual "vision"?

 

[FlashFlanker]

so there i was chatting with a friend on Facebook. He being a Shore parent suggesting that some schools should be told to play in their own comp, suggesting that Scots and New take things just a little more seriously than the others.
So it occurred to me that some possum might be stirred if I gave him the link to the TSC "vision". So I went looking for the aim to dominate and this is what I found:
View attachment 4018
Maybe GGR has more influence than we think.
"dominance" replaced with "excellence" - poor language skills or did the original betray the actual "vision"?

This is good to know. There is a subtle difference to what has been portrayed earlier. Well done.

But it begs the question... and I am not saying either of these is wrong ... are they developing the rugby capability of the whole cohort by blending rugby and physical capability to aid in the whole group moving forward.

You can plant an avocado seed and it takes forever (7 years I think) to bear fruit. On the other hand you can graft it and the plant will bear fruit in two.

The real question is what the school believes it is getting out of this. In Brisbane schools like Nudgee and Terrace have traded on being "nurseries of wallabies" and promote the long list of wallabies they have produced. There was a time when that was true.

Today Nudgee (and other schools) are buying somewhat mature rugby players at 15/16 and even 17 and putting their label on them as their product. Today they are just retailing a product they did not develop... just presented for sale. In the meantime, continuing the once honourable tradition of winning endless lists of Premierships to satisfy the egos of old boys continues.

PS. I commend Terrace for the restrained way in which they have conducted themselves. There are a few other schools as well.

 

[Jaghond]

IS
Perhaps the "vision" of the author, and not the College itself ??

Those pesky Yr 7 proof readers might be doing some overtime.....or all doing advanced extension English in a few years....

 

[Inside Shoulder]

IS
Perhaps the "vision" of the author, and not the College itself ??

Those pesky Yr 7 proof readers might be doing some overtime...or all doing advanced extension English in a few years..

Well that begs many questions.
Like who decides what face is presented by the school to prospective parents?
In order to put an innocent explanation on it you would have to overcome the fact that, whoever was responsible for the wording, he or she must have thought that domination was the aim.
Now where would he or she have got that idea I wonder?

This is good to know. There is a subtle difference to what has been portrayed earlier. Well done.

But it begs the question. and I am not saying either of these is wrong . are

Just so its crystal clear: TSC removed the word dominant - there is no doubt about it. I saw it and so did Quick Hands.

All TSC needed was someone to point out that this wasn't entirely consistent with the ethos of schoolboy sport - just a minor point on the way to world domination.

 

[Quick Hands]

Well that begs many questions.
Like who decides what face is presented by the school to prospective parents?
In order to put an innocent explanation on it you would have to overcome the fact that, whoever was responsible for the wording, he or she must have thought that domination was the aim.
Now where would he or she have got that idea I wonder?

Just so its crystal clear: TSC removed the word dominant - there is no doubt about it. I saw it and so did Quick Hands.

All TSC needed was someone to point out that this wasn't entirely consistent with the ethos of schoolboy sport - just a minor point on the way to world domination.

One suspects that the word may have changed, but the quest for world domination continues.
I did notice that Kings defeated the TSC 16As dream team yesterday. Hope it was on the main ground.

 

[Colin Windon]

Yes the 16A's was played on the JS White. 'Domination' didn't even arrive for the Scot's 2nd XV who were soundly beaten by Kings.

It did however arrive on time at 3.15 where Scots soundly beat a gallant but clearly outgunned Kings team.

 

[GTPIH]

One suspects that the word may have changed, but the quest for world domination continues.
I did notice that Kings defeated the TSC 16As dream team yesterday. Hope it was on the main ground.

Why does it matter where it was played? Does it make you feel better that 16 year old boys lost in front of a larger crowd? Given your comment, the answer is yes, which just makes you a sad, sad little man.

 

[Quick Hands]

Why does it matter where it was played? Does it make you feel better that 16 year old boys lost in front of a larger crowd? Given your comment, the answer is yes, which just makes you a sad, sad little man.

To get the context, you need to go back a week or so when there were complaints from Scots supporters on the GPS thread that Newington had scheduled the 16As match away from the main ground because they didn't want Scots to beat them in front of a big crowd. I couldn't care less where they play, but the irony wasn't lost on me.

 

[Iniman]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/basketb...-are-aiming-for-the-stars-20130810-2rovx.html

 

[Iniman]

make the connection

 

[scaraby]

To get the context, you need to go back a week or so when there were complaints from Scots supporters on the GPS thread that Newington had scheduled the 16As match away from the main ground because they didn't want Scots to beat them in front of a big crowd. I couldn't care less where they play, but the irony wasn't lost on me.

 

[scaraby]

Oh that's why I pointed it out....nothing to do with years of tradition of wher games are scheduled.....by the way pretty catty comment on scots v kings 16 as where you seem to dwell on some I'll conceived idea of 10 out of 15 players on scholarships last time I read and ignored.....check the team sheet ...the injuries pre and during the game and then look at the potential team that scots could put into the 16s if the opens dropped back......then go back and check out the kids that have been there since year 7 .....then tell every one the 4 kids that you seem to be worried about....you still haven't mentioned any names .....then drop it and this whole thread .....and why am I harping on?..because after the joeys game ,the kids walked off through the joeys crowd to catcalls that an NRL first grader would have been gutted by.......and to be honest I wonder how much is fueled by people who should know better.