Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
When you do that he just replies to himself
School sporting scholarships/recruitment
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GPSrow
Watty Friend (18)
There already is a "double up" - someone has been playing and training in the position since Year 7.
(Hope your HSC is going well
Yes I know that. And the inclusion of Tepai and Tanne into the Newington Rugby Program was to simply to 'fill the void' that would've occurred at the likes of Oscar Pople and Lachlan Shaw would have left school as they were in the year above.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Found this interesting article which canvasses many of the issues on this thread. A couple of points raised:
It all boils down to the reason we have sport in the first place. Somewhere in time, many parents, coaches and schools have got confused, and started to believe that the goal is to be elite. This concept of “elite” has then seemingly become a selling point for certain schools. They have created professional facilities in order to sell parents and students the dream of becoming a future professional athlete.
Otherwise why would a school have an hypoxic altitude chamber? If it is there to impress prospective parents and justify extensive fees – a kind of pricey marketing tool – then it could be understood.
But from a sport science perspective spending significant money on gaining a minimal, if any advantage, from an altitude chamber demonstrates a poor understanding of sport science and even poorer understanding of what is required to become an elite athlete. It is nearly laughable that school aged children would be using such equipment when so many basic changes can be made to improve performance.
* * *
It is also a concern that many seem to want youngsters to stick to one sport early on, or what we call “early specialisation”. The reasoning is that this will give them the best chance to be “elite” with the mythical 10,000 hour rule often quoted. This rule suggests you need 10,000 hours of deliberate practice to become elite. Nevermind that this rule is based on research completed on chess players, violinists and pianists, not sportsmen.
* * *
And with all the focus on being school sport “elite”, who is there to pick up the pieces when the dream of being a professional sportsman is shattered? What is the psychological cost when they get to 17 and do not fulfill the elite dream? What has been the cost to their schooling, their family and to their basic social development by chasing a dream that, in most cases, is not possible and may not have even been their own.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/09/29/do-we-really-need-elite-sports-training-schools
It all boils down to the reason we have sport in the first place. Somewhere in time, many parents, coaches and schools have got confused, and started to believe that the goal is to be elite. This concept of “elite” has then seemingly become a selling point for certain schools. They have created professional facilities in order to sell parents and students the dream of becoming a future professional athlete.
Otherwise why would a school have an hypoxic altitude chamber? If it is there to impress prospective parents and justify extensive fees – a kind of pricey marketing tool – then it could be understood.
But from a sport science perspective spending significant money on gaining a minimal, if any advantage, from an altitude chamber demonstrates a poor understanding of sport science and even poorer understanding of what is required to become an elite athlete. It is nearly laughable that school aged children would be using such equipment when so many basic changes can be made to improve performance.
* * *
It is also a concern that many seem to want youngsters to stick to one sport early on, or what we call “early specialisation”. The reasoning is that this will give them the best chance to be “elite” with the mythical 10,000 hour rule often quoted. This rule suggests you need 10,000 hours of deliberate practice to become elite. Nevermind that this rule is based on research completed on chess players, violinists and pianists, not sportsmen.
* * *
And with all the focus on being school sport “elite”, who is there to pick up the pieces when the dream of being a professional sportsman is shattered? What is the psychological cost when they get to 17 and do not fulfill the elite dream? What has been the cost to their schooling, their family and to their basic social development by chasing a dream that, in most cases, is not possible and may not have even been their own.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/09/29/do-we-really-need-elite-sports-training-schools
Hugie
Ted Fahey (11)
Guys
I find your concern for the boys very touching and ethical. However I don't see this as the big issue here. As I've said before the big hurdle that Australian Rugby has to overcome is that for over 100 years rugby has been marketed and perceived as an elite sport, played by soft elites, run by ethically challenged elites for the benefit of the elites.
To grow, rugby has to break the very perception that it has spent 100 years building, (the same way soccer had to break the perception that is was a sport played between ethnic groups carrying on old world wars).
This whole debate feeds this perception,
- Sydney Unis dominance of SS feeds this perception,
- the Wallabies soft rugby game feeds this perception,
- the composition of the Australian School boys union team compared to the Australian school boys league team feeds this perception
The GPS schools thing show that we have a long, long way to go. I think that Frank Lowe showed (with soccer) that it will take a very strong character with a lot of determination to break through. I don't see any rugby Frank Lowes on the horizon. Sorry, but get used to a long winter of Australian rugby decline before it turns around, this looks really bad.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Your analysis is spot on in terms of what the ARU needs to do.
Muglair
Alfred Walker (16)
Interesting article from QH. A lot of sense but also we should not read too much into the GPS situation here. As a generalisation I would have thought that most of the boys, whether scholarshippers, parachutists or victims have a bit more to fall back on than the rising stars in different sports and from different backgrounds in different school and youth systems.
Scary analysis from Hughie and I am not very optimistic about the ARU's capability to turn this around any time soon. Rugby is in serious shit.
Scary analysis from Hughie and I am not very optimistic about the ARU's capability to turn this around any time soon. Rugby is in serious shit.
On the positive side, so many people are now aware of the slide and general corporate dishonesty, that we may be reaching the tipping point where something radical will occur. Regrettably the ARU is badly lead in the schoolboy selection department, by a person of very low achievement in the sport who will listen to no one. The issues in the GPS system are creeping through the private schools in the other competitions. It is well known that the Head of the Knox Sports Academy facilitated the employment of an international standard professional coach whom he knew in an attempt to win the CAS competition. Without directly financing sportsmen they simply approached the ones they thought they required from the Lloyd McDermott side on aboriginal scholarships. The traditional Old Boy support base is deeply offended and concerned for all players including the Lloyd acquisitions whom it appears will have little time to benefit academically. The school will no doubt repeat this process until it is exposed as no more than commercially driven. Despite the coaching and the new players their results were similar. Too few boys are being identified too young, plugged into special elite or gold squads only find themselves burnt out by year round boring rote practice and drop out before they even get a chance to play a single game of Colts let alone Grade rugby. At least the Sydney Uni dominance has begun to create competitors Clubs with support from other Universities. It has however until now, been a major factor in exposing the few to the detriment of the many. How apt that a good number of schoolboy union players had already signed with league clubs prior to their international tour, they seem to think they know who to trust.
DragonMan
Jimmy Flynn (14)
just back from Paris with the future Mrs Dragon Man (not sure she wants to be called the Dragon Lady so she will be keeping her maiden name) and missed all the SMH reporting. Idid however just catch up on it today and note that the 'independent' consultant hired by Scots is the ex- head of Scotch Melbourne, which I'm fairly sure is Scots' 'brother' school south of the border. Quelle surprise the report found that Scots is 'clean'. Dr L really isn't doing himself any favours when it comes to upping his reputation.
Jaghond
Ted Fahey (11)
Without wishing to side-track the current debates bubbling away on this thread………..if Rugby is in such a parlous state ( and I don’t doubt for a minute that things are pretty crook, even if only 50% of the commentary herein was “reasonably accurate”…) – why would anyone then be encouraging their son or daughter to “pursue a career” in Rugby ?
If they did achieve even limited selection success in the professional arena – by all accounts Rugby ( as we currently know it) is perhaps in its twilight period – unless something radical is attempted – and as a result any long term employment opportunities would seem to be fleeting at best ?
If they did achieve even limited selection success in the professional arena – by all accounts Rugby ( as we currently know it) is perhaps in its twilight period – unless something radical is attempted – and as a result any long term employment opportunities would seem to be fleeting at best ?
Rugby is only in a state of turmoil in Australia. Globally the game is booming.
If someone wants to become a professional rugby player overseas and is good enough there are no shortages of opportunities.
Really! Did it occur to you that he is the ONLY principal in the GPS that has offered to undertake such a report and that perhaps he got someone from outside the state to do it. These schools are not linked at all. When are the five accusing schools going to open their books up? Or is this sour grapes? Everyone knows that all of these schools have had scholarship boys parachuted in, not just for rugby, but for tennis, athletics etc. Try last year's King's basketball team with two African players shuted in, and suddenly disappeared at the end of the season. And just in case anybody hasn't noticed, does Him Talkes have sole links with the SMH? or is there another Agenda here? If Kings didn't want to play basketball against cheats, why is he playing High who bought state players in? Lambert is the ONLY principal who's been through the GPS. Maybe they want to change the game plan and he's in their way - so let's play the BLAME game. Cheap shots! If you can't beat someone, run away and don't play!
Brian Westlake
Arch Winning (36)
^^^^^^^^ son of dodge?????
It is what it is
John Solomon (38)
Yep Alex, the world that Scots is planning on dominating is actually at fault here and Scots have done nothing wrong.
As Maxwell Smart would say "the old best form of defence is attack strategy"
Oh you're so smart SP (ex Scots and Joeys) and PP (kings)! Don't know what you're talking about. Scotch is Uniting Church. Lambert never got a scholarship. But you're right - he did stroke the winning eight in the GPS! Jealous girls. His brother got an academic scholarship. Anyone with an educational brain would know that Gordon Donaldson is one of the most respected former Headmasters in the country. Yet to hear whether any other schools are opening up their books for an independent audit!
Why should the other schools open their books?
Is Dr Lambert planning on boycotting games against them, and if so on what basis would he require independent business entities to do so?
Is Dr Lambert planning on boycotting games against them, and if so on what basis would he require independent business entities to do so?
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Sorry, have to correct you on Scotch College Melbourne.
Scotch College is affiliated with the Presbyterian Church of Victoria and every effort is made to develop Christian ideals of citizenship and personal character within a Christian environment for learning. It is also a member of the Associated Public Schools of Victoria (APS).
http://www.scotch.vic.edu.au/senior-school.aspx
GPSrow
Watty Friend (18)
Too be honest, this might come across as immature as there is only personal evidence from it, but do you think Australian sport in general is just all across the board is losing its touch. You look on the news.......Football, Cricket, Rugby Union and Rugby League is all being effected.
Having France and Brazil put on 10+ goals on us in 2 matches.
Having to beat a war-torn, developing nation as "Jordan" by one goal to qualify for the World Coup
Having lost another Ashes Series.
Having lost another Blediesloe Cup.
Having lost the last Rugby League cup to New Zealand. Our own Game.
Sacking Coaches when 'the players play the game'.
Food for thought? or just a stupid opinion.
I still look up to those blokes on tv representing our country. Kids do when they win.
Having France and Brazil put on 10+ goals on us in 2 matches.
Having to beat a war-torn, developing nation as "Jordan" by one goal to qualify for the World Coup
Having lost another Ashes Series.
Having lost another Blediesloe Cup.
Having lost the last Rugby League cup to New Zealand. Our own Game.
Sacking Coaches when 'the players play the game'.
Food for thought? or just a stupid opinion.
I still look up to those blokes on tv representing our country. Kids do when they win.
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