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Shute Shield 2014

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BellyTwoBlues

Guest
What do they do in NZ clubland?

All club footy is completely over by end of July in Inzid and before the start of the ITM Cup.

Aside form talent, depth and general rugby knowledge there are two important things the game has across the dutch that we don't have here.

1- extreme heat. Jan-Mar and Sept - Dec over there doesn't get anywhere near the heat we get here.
2- there's not too many fields over there that have cricket pitches in the middle of them.
 

Rugby Central

Charlie Fox (21)
All club footy is completely over by end of July in Inzid and before the start of the ITM Cup.

Aside form talent, depth and general rugby knowledge there are two important things the game has across the dutch that we don't have here.

1- extreme heat. Jan-Mar and Sept - Dec over there doesn't get anywhere near the heat we get here.
2- there's not too many fields over there that have cricket pitches in the middle of them.

3 - A desire to develop players to their potential
4 - they actually care about the game
5 - understanding that players don't just come from private schools
6 - the ability to follow through...on anything
7 - administrators that understand the game

Sorry, don't have the time to continue with the list:p
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
8. Half the country doesn't play a silly game (AFL) with a passion approaching religion.
9. Greco Roman Rugby is a niche sport.
10. Councils don't close the ovals at the first drop of rain.
11. They have a rugby channel on Pay TV.
12. All big games are shown FTA.
13. Club footy gets covered by passionate and knowledgeable journalists in the local paper.
 

Aussie D

Dick Tooth (41)
Seeing as though this thread is more about proposals for developing rugby more than Shute Shield 2014 (as the thread name implies) here is my 2c:

The ARU should fund 2 new F/T positions whose sole responsibility is developing village rugby. The first position would be Director of Coaching (someone like Bob Dwyer would be great in this role) whose job is to supervise all the development officers in improving the standard of our coaches. Coaches should have ongoing development activities, such as specialised scrum coaching, etc.
The second position could be called Director of Rugby and the focus would be on increasing the participation rate, assisting clubs in improving player retention, financial management, etc. Someone like Rod MacQueen could be utilised in this role.
The reason I would focus on building the village clubs is that this is the footpath that has the potential to develop a second viable pathway for kids who don't go to private schools.
If a 5-year plan were to be implemented (some clubs already have all junior grades covered, though on the central Coast where I live I think only 1 or 2 do) start with making every possible effort for all clubs to have U7, U10 and U13 as a minimum. 2015, the same with the 2014 crop moving to U8, U11 and U14 so then every club would have a minimum of 6 teams. 2016, Same again with the first year crop mobbing up to U9, U12 and u15, 2nd year crop moving to U8, U11 and U14 so all clubs should have a minimum of 9 teams. After this the focus should always be on retention and recruiting an U7 team each year. After 5 years all clubs should have U7-17.
Once this is done their will be a larger pool of players for district sides to draw upon which will hopefully improve the colts standard. It will be a long and hard road but if done correctly can lead to a great reward at the end.
 

Knuckles

Billy Sheehan (19)
Back to the thread name.

I'm betting they'll keep it at 18 rounds starting April 5. It should go to Top 5 finals series, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they keep it at Top 8.

For some reason the ABC can only film 18 rounds so rather than playing 22 rounds and having the first 4 not filmed, SRU will continue on with the 18 round format.

My snouts tell me that all clubs want 22 rounds, yet SRU aren't listening.

Hardly surprising.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Back to the thread name.

I'm betting they'll keep it at 18 rounds starting April 5. It should go to Top 5 finals series, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they keep it at Top 8.

For some reason the ABC can only film 18 rounds so rather than playing 22 rounds and having the first 4 not filmed, SRU will continue on with the 18 round format.

My snouts tell me that all clubs want 22 rounds, yet SRU aren't listening.

Hardly surprising.

In the terms of number of games played what is the difference between;
18 rounds and a top 8
compared to
22 rounds top 5

For what it's worth I did enjoy the quality of rugby played in the last 5 round games of 2012, top 6 separated from bottom 6.
Enjoyed the quality of rugby, but not the structure that year.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Just putting this out there so the required head can talk.

How about the weekly Rugby News have a 2 pages of GAGR comments.

It should create more traffic on this site
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Given the general state of Rugby Journalism in this country, I reckon that Rugby News would welcome someone giving them column inches that they don't have to produce themselves, or pay for.

They are constrained by practical issues such as the realities of how standard sized printing paper "folds" down into the various multiples of 4 for double sided A5 sized pages. Someone in printing will probably correct me but 32 pages of A5 double sided printing is an A1 size sheet, printed cut, folded and stapled.

Rugby News would be interested in receiving a constant feed of good quality G&GR posts. Is someone (or a team of someones) prepared to do that? It sounds easy, but the reality of meeting deadlines week in week out becomes unattractive very quickly.

It is worthy of exploring, but in entering any commercial/semi- commercial relationship with a third party, a certain degree of editorial independence can be compromised. If someone has a legitimate gripe with Rugby News and posts an unflattering article on the Blog or forum, there would/could be pressure on G&GR Mods to remove the "offensive/embarrassing" post.

Are we prepared to compromise our wanging rights for increased exposure?

Perhaps @Gagger may care to comment on a tie in with Rugby News.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Given the general state of Rugby Journalism in this country, I reckon that Rugby News would welcome someone giving them column inches that they don't have to produce themselves, or pay for.

They are constrained by practical issues such as the realities of how standard sized printing paper "folds" down into the various multiples of 4 for double sided A5 sized pages. Someone in printing will probably correct me but 32 pages of A5 double sided printing is an A1 size sheet, printed cut, folded and stapled.

Rugby News would be interested in receiving a constant feed of good quality G&GR posts. Is someone (or a team of someones) prepared to do that? It sounds easy, but the reality of meeting deadlines week in week out becomes unattractive very quickly.

It is worthy of exploring, but in entering any commercial/semi- commercial relationship with a third party, a certain degree of editorial independence can be compromised. If someone has a legitimate gripe with Rugby News and posts an unflattering article on the Blog or forum, there would/could be pressure on G&GR Mods to remove the "offensive/embarrassing" post.

Are we prepared to compromise our wanging rights for increased exposure?

Perhaps @Gagger may care to comment on a tie in with Rugby News.

So it's not just a case of having a template so everything fits correctly, then simply cutting and pasting.
 

Tah and feathered

Watty Friend (18)
Looks like the format being considered for 2014 is
1st grade
2nd grade
1st colts
On the home team main oval

3rd grade
4th grade
2nd colts
U/19
U/17 maybe
On the away teams main field
Comp start 5th April with 18 games and a top 5
Not sure how this will work
I think you have to have 1st and 2nd colts at least playing together.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
I like the idea of Under 17's being in the Shute Shield Colts realm although some districts will have several U17 teams and others will have none.

Not sure that Saturday would suit the Under 17 competition as well. There are still a fair few Saturday School Rugby boys (not in the glamour teams for their school) who back up on Sunday for Sydney Juniors.

Playing Saturdays could force the Shute Shield clubs to develop and retain kids from outside CAS, AAGPS and ISA. Heaven forbid, they may even have to foster the sport within the local CHS and CCC schools, instead of relying on picking the eyes out of the "elite private school" 1st XV's come colts time.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Looks like the format being considered for 2014 is
1st grade
2nd grade
1st colts
On the home team main oval

3rd grade
4th grade
2nd colts
U/19
U/17 maybe
On the away teams main field
Comp start 5th April with 18 games and a top 5
Not sure how this will work
I think you have to have 1st and 2nd colts at least playing together.

Are you talking about plans for the future:

Proposals for future format
The SRU Board and Club Presidents agreed earlier this year that the status quo was not acceptable, and that improvements need to be made to the Club competition. The Board agrees that it is necessary for the Clubs and the SRU to work on what is needed to inject new vigour into the Club competition, and ARU is right when it asks what might be done in this respect. The ARU correctly identifies the distinction between aspirational and participational Rugby as an issue to be addressed. The Board does not agree with the measures proposed by ARU, but have discussed an alternative new structure which we think could provide a good answer. The proposal, which is supported by the Board but which will not be acted on until feedback has been received from Clubs, is as follows.



Premier Rugby Club Rugby

Premier 1st Grade “A” Grade

Premier 2nd Grade “B” Grade

Premier Colts (U20) Under 20’s &/or

Under 19’s (and potentially U17’s)



· Promoting the aspirational players (Premier) from the participation players (Club) with most clubs already regarding the 3 Premier Grades as their top tier.

· Premier Colts will provide opportunities for the players to have a taste 1st and 2nd Grade rugby without being brought into a brand new environment.

· This format will give us a point of difference and establish options for the competition to evolve in the future.

· The Premier Rugby Criteria will be developed for introduction in 2015, establishing formal participation requirements.

· The re-classification of the competitions as Premier Rugby and Club Rugby (not 3rd and 4th Grade) will provide all Clubs with weekly home games and research clearly indicates this has been successful in other competitions and sports globally.

· In time Clubs may take a decision to withdraw from Premier Rugby, but remain a SRU Club playing Club Rugby, and possibly even vice versa.

· This could then allow new participants in Premier or Club Rugby, subject to the requirements of the SRU.
 

Tah and feathered

Watty Friend (18)
Are you talking about plans for the future:

Proposals for future format
The SRU Board and Club Presidents agreed earlier this year that the status quo was not acceptable, and that improvements need to be made to the Club competition. The Board agrees that it is necessary for the Clubs and the SRU to work on what is needed to inject new vigour into the Club competition, and ARU is right when it asks what might be done in this respect. The ARU correctly identifies the distinction between aspirational and participational Rugby as an issue to be addressed. The Board does not agree with the measures proposed by ARU, but have discussed an alternative new structure which we think could provide a good answer. The proposal, which is supported by the Board but which will not be acted on until feedback has been received from Clubs, is as follows.



Premier Rugby Club Rugby

Premier 1st Grade “A” Grade

Premier 2nd Grade “B” Grade

Premier Colts (U20) Under 20’s &/or

Under 19’s (and potentially U17’s)



· Promoting the aspirational players (Premier) from the participation players (Club) with most clubs already regarding the 3 Premier Grades as their top tier.

· Premier Colts will provide opportunities for the players to have a taste 1st and 2nd Grade rugby without being brought into a brand new environment.

· This format will give us a point of difference and establish options for the competition to evolve in the future.

· The Premier Rugby Criteria will be developed for introduction in 2015, establishing formal participation requirements.

· The re-classification of the competitions as Premier Rugby and Club Rugby (not 3rd and 4th Grade) will provide all Clubs with weekly home games and research clearly indicates this has been successful in other competitions and sports globally.

· In time Clubs may take a decision to withdraw from Premier Rugby, but remain a SRU Club playing Club Rugby, and possibly even vice versa.

· This could then allow new participants in Premier or Club Rugby, subject to the requirements of the SRU.
Are you talking about plans for the future:

Proposals for future format
The SRU Board and Club Presidents agreed earlier this year that the status quo was not acceptable, and that improvements need to be made to the Club competition. The Board agrees that it is necessary for the Clubs and the SRU to work on what is needed to inject new vigour into the Club competition, and ARU is right when it asks what might be done in this respect. The ARU correctly identifies the distinction between aspirational and participational Rugby as an issue to be addressed. The Board does not agree with the measures proposed by ARU, but have discussed an alternative new structure which we think could provide a good answer. The proposal, which is supported by the Board but which will not be acted on until feedback has been received from Clubs, is as follows.



Premier Rugby Club Rugby

Premier 1st Grade “A” Grade

Premier 2nd Grade “B” Grade

Premier Colts (U20) Under 20’s &/or

Under 19’s (and potentially U17’s)



· Promoting the aspirational players (Premier) from the participation players (Club) with most clubs already regarding the 3 Premier Grades as their top tier.

· Premier Colts will provide opportunities for the players to have a taste 1st and 2nd Grade rugby without being brought into a brand new environment.

· This format will give us a point of difference and establish options for the competition to evolve in the future.

· The Premier Rugby Criteria will be developed for introduction in 2015, establishing formal participation requirements.

· The re-classification of the competitions as Premier Rugby and Club Rugby (not 3rd and 4th Grade) will provide all Clubs with weekly home games and research clearly indicates this has been successful in other competitions and sports globally.

· In time Clubs may take a decision to withdraw from Premier Rugby, but remain a SRU Club playing Club Rugby, and possibly even vice versa.

· This could then allow new participants in Premier or Club Rugby, subject to the requirements of the SRU.
Looks like Dave has it from the horses mouth
I haven't seen this document and after reading it I would say this will happen in 2015?
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Looks like Dave has it from the horses mouth
I haven't seen this document and after reading it I would say this will happen in 2015?
Not a horse, top bloke, someone who is all about Australian Rugby (I.e. us punters who have day jobs, and volunteer for club rugby).
 

WorkingClassRugger

Simon Poidevin (60)
Are you talking about plans for the future:

Proposals for future format
The SRU Board and Club Presidents agreed earlier this year that the status quo was not acceptable, and that improvements need to be made to the Club competition. The Board agrees that it is necessary for the Clubs and the SRU to work on what is needed to inject new vigour into the Club competition, and ARU is right when it asks what might be done in this respect. The ARU correctly identifies the distinction between aspirational and participational Rugby as an issue to be addressed. The Board does not agree with the measures proposed by ARU, but have discussed an alternative new structure which we think could provide a good answer. The proposal, which is supported by the Board but which will not be acted on until feedback has been received from Clubs, is as follows.



Premier Rugby Club Rugby

Premier 1st Grade “A” Grade

Premier 2nd Grade “B” Grade

Premier Colts (U20) Under 20’s &/or

Under 19’s (and potentially U17’s)



· Promoting the aspirational players (Premier) from the participation players (Club) with most clubs already regarding the 3 Premier Grades as their top tier.

· Premier Colts will provide opportunities for the players to have a taste 1st and 2nd Grade rugby without being brought into a brand new environment.

· This format will give us a point of difference and establish options for the competition to evolve in the future.

· The Premier Rugby Criteria will be developed for introduction in 2015, establishing formal participation requirements.

· The re-classification of the competitions as Premier Rugby and Club Rugby (not 3rd and 4th Grade) will provide all Clubs with weekly home games and research clearly indicates this has been successful in other competitions and sports globally.

· In time Clubs may take a decision to withdraw from Premier Rugby, but remain a SRU Club playing Club Rugby, and possibly even vice versa.

· This could then allow new participants in Premier or Club Rugby, subject to the requirements of the SRU.


You know what, I actually don't mind these proposed changes.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Just putting this out there so the required head can talk.

How about the weekly Rugby News have a 2 pages of GAGR comments.

It should create more traffic on this site


I've been in touch with rugby news before but they didn't want a bar of it. Apparently they have been established far longer than us.....
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
I've been in touch with rugby news before but they didn't want a bar of it. Apparently they have been established far longer than us...

.... ... and yet many of the stories are broken on G&GR before being on the Rugby News web feed, or printed versions.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
.. . and yet many of the stories are broken on G&GR before being on the Rugby News web feed, or printed versions.
.
True, but that's because this is live, and Rugby News cant be seen until Sat.
Readers of both forms love their rugby and I do think they will complement each other.
 
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