Shute Shield 2016
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AussieDominance
Trevor Allan (34)
I agree with you players aspiring to be professional want to play theres nothing stopping the Shute Shield starting another representative competition though.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
I believe the link for the 2015 one doesn't work, or you need to request to have it sent. I did look (only a couple of weeks back).
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
No there is not. But only 20% of the professional players would be available. Unless you have 20% of the teams it's likely not going to be a similar concentration of talent and therefore less desirable as a recruitment source.
At best it's basically similar to Shute Shield 5 years ago. The value of the NRC (from a recruitment perspective) is you get to see players going up against teams with high numbers of full time professionals and how they handle this level.
B
BellyTwoBlues
Guest
no financial statements in it though!
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
The Butts
Herbert Moran (7)
Whew . . . . I reckon Mr Jarse should be handing out "chill pills" to all of our contributors on the SS "subject".
Fair dinkum, how would you like to be a young bloke just coming up to SS level after serving time in the Colts, and reading this drama. If anything was going to force them to the Mungoes - or overseas - it would be all the negativity being thrown around
Fair dinkum, how would you like to be a young bloke just coming up to SS level after serving time in the Colts, and reading this drama. If anything was going to force them to the Mungoes - or overseas - it would be all the negativity being thrown around
AussieDominance
Trevor Allan (34)
If the clubs band together to not support the NRC and to instead support a different representative format with the players they provide I am sure it would not be too hard to find a broadcaster and sponsorship.
Pretty simple really. Don't see what is so mind blowing.
AussieDominance
Trevor Allan (34)
On the improve with hopes to contribute funds back to a foundation this season onwards.
The last of the creditors are being sorted out now.
WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
Money would be something stopping them. There's a reason for the JV structure adopted by the NSW teams. Only a handful of teams if that can afford going it alone. And as Slim suggests. Outside of their grouping who will they play? The QRU run the Queensland squads so it's pretty obvious that if you want to play professionally you have to play in the NRC.
Same goes for the Rising, Vikings and Spirit. You have also got to consider that the Rams are 75% owned by a comsortium and the Eagles run by an idenpendent group of businessmen. Are players going to forego the opportunity to play professionally? I think not.
WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
They haven't been able to in the last 20 years of professionalism. Hell, the evil ARU are funding the SS to the tune of $300,000 a season to ensure its kept on the TV. How will this all of a suden change.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
So, a competition without Super Rugby players? Or players without any aspirations of playing professionally?
I don't see much demand for that.........
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Exactly WCR. The NRL and AFL are both evolutions of previous similar competitions to the Shute Shield.
2 of those progressed and have since developed into national codes and governing bodies. It's fanciful to suggest the Shute Shield could do anything similar in 2016 when it currently barely has enough support to run a bare bones operation and make a profit.
The support just is not there in its region, and there would be very little TV Rights value for a competition that appeals to one city.
WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
What I'm going say now may upset a few. But, everything made public in this debate strikes me as a temper tantrum of a spoilt brat.
They feel entitled to money just purely because they are who they are. And when they realise they're not getting it they're acting like the poor child of Australian Rugby. All complete BS. I challenge anyone to name another premier grade competition in the country that is getting $300,000 to ensure it remains on TV. FTA no less. They have been handed a distinct advantage over everyone else. One that they should be looking to exploit. However, they are instead whinging some more.
Are you kidding me?
If they are so desperate for the cash then perhaps the ARU should redirect those funds directly to the clubs themselves. This will likely mean they'll lose their broadcast but that's life. Full of tough choices.
the coach
Bob Davidson (42)
31 pages and not a ball kicked yet -- wow, big year ahead!
I've been out for the day and have had to catch up on about 6-7 pages so I've given up trying to respond to various posts, but I offer the following points:
(1) I suggest the gap between SS and subbies is huge -- how many Balmain players made the Uni NRC franchise? I'd suggest many players would head o/s, retire, play league etc if the SS ceased to operate rather than go to subbies. However, I don't know why anyone is talking about the end of the SS. All I'm asking is why wouldn't the ARU offer support to the competitions that most Super players spend at least some time in and which provides most of the NRC players? Given the ARU believes that the NRC is so important.
(2) I believe the current system favours the annointed ones. I've seen plenty of players in the SS who I can't understand why they aren't given a chance in Super rugby and plenty of rock stars in Super rugby who I don't believe are as good as they're cracked up to be.
I've been out for the day and have had to catch up on about 6-7 pages so I've given up trying to respond to various posts, but I offer the following points:
(1) I suggest the gap between SS and subbies is huge -- how many Balmain players made the Uni NRC franchise? I'd suggest many players would head o/s, retire, play league etc if the SS ceased to operate rather than go to subbies. However, I don't know why anyone is talking about the end of the SS. All I'm asking is why wouldn't the ARU offer support to the competitions that most Super players spend at least some time in and which provides most of the NRC players? Given the ARU believes that the NRC is so important.
(2) I believe the current system favours the annointed ones. I've seen plenty of players in the SS who I can't understand why they aren't given a chance in Super rugby and plenty of rock stars in Super rugby who I don't believe are as good as they're cracked up to be.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Coach I don't disagree it's a big gap. But I know for a fact a Colleagues 1/2 grade team played an Easts 3rd grade team last week and Easts copped an absolute hiding. Perhaps Easts 3rds will get stronger too, but Colleagues definitely will by Round 1. Is the gap between many clubs 1sts to 2nds and 2nds to 3rds that huge?
I know I've been at clubs where I'm confident we'd have pushed the grade above when I was in lower grades, and equally lacking in confidence that we'd towel up the grade below at times.
But anyway part of that gap is due to a system that protects the SS clubs, thereby removing any incentive to bridge that gap. It also ensures players with any aspirations go to SS clubs. My comment is more so this:
Some of the strong KC teams could bridge it given the opportunity because it would increase their sponsorship exposure and player pull.
And that is my point against the argument that the SS is so invaluable it should be supported if it's not sustainable.
It certainly is preferable to maintain the history, tradition, etc and avoid any lag whilst new teams get up to speed with a new level.
You're probably right on point 2. But that's the same in the NZ system, AFL and NRL. You compete for what you consider to be the best talent at the time. Doesn't always turn out to be the best talent though.
I know I've been at clubs where I'm confident we'd have pushed the grade above when I was in lower grades, and equally lacking in confidence that we'd towel up the grade below at times.
But anyway part of that gap is due to a system that protects the SS clubs, thereby removing any incentive to bridge that gap. It also ensures players with any aspirations go to SS clubs. My comment is more so this:
Some of the strong KC teams could bridge it given the opportunity because it would increase their sponsorship exposure and player pull.
And that is my point against the argument that the SS is so invaluable it should be supported if it's not sustainable.
It certainly is preferable to maintain the history, tradition, etc and avoid any lag whilst new teams get up to speed with a new level.
You're probably right on point 2. But that's the same in the NZ system, AFL and NRL. You compete for what you consider to be the best talent at the time. Doesn't always turn out to be the best talent though.
the coach
Bob Davidson (42)
I'd suggest the gap between 2nd grade and 3rd grade in most clubs is significant. I know at Randwick the pathway seems to be from Colts 1,2 to 1st or 2nd grade. 3rd and 4th grade is generally made up of guys who will never be good enough to justify selection in 1st or 2nd grade and guys who may have played higher grades but are now content to run around with their mates. In fact 70% of 2015 colts at Randwick will move into grade this year -- most into 1st and 2nd grade.
By the way, the current solid financial situation at Randwick is due to an enormous amount of hard work by upwards of 60 volunteers and staff and has not always been the case and probaby won't be in the future. Why should the premier feeder competition to the NRC have to rely on volunteers?
I'd suggest Bill Pulver has delivered the quote which will haunt him for the rest of his life ie suggesting that the clubs would "piss it up against the wall" on player payments if the ARU provided them with funds. When the ARU was broke, the SS clubs kept going and provided players to the Super teams without any thanks from the ARU.
If the ARU is concerned about grants being used for player payments why don't they provide support in other ways ie player insurance costs, provide equipment and playing gear, ground hire costs, etc.
By the way, the current solid financial situation at Randwick is due to an enormous amount of hard work by upwards of 60 volunteers and staff and has not always been the case and probaby won't be in the future. Why should the premier feeder competition to the NRC have to rely on volunteers?
I'd suggest Bill Pulver has delivered the quote which will haunt him for the rest of his life ie suggesting that the clubs would "piss it up against the wall" on player payments if the ARU provided them with funds. When the ARU was broke, the SS clubs kept going and provided players to the Super teams without any thanks from the ARU.
If the ARU is concerned about grants being used for player payments why don't they provide support in other ways ie player insurance costs, provide equipment and playing gear, ground hire costs, etc.
Shadow
Sydney Middleton (9)
I think Southern Districts had something on there club Facebook PageAs is Manly's - up on a thread which is pro SS
I know they had a very good year and made 100K profit.
WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
That's great. I wonder how they managed that? Perhaps they could let the other clubs in on how they did it. Good self sustaining club.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Where's the thanks to the ARU coach though? The relationship benefits both. Without the prospect of a Super Rugby contract how many plays would toil away playing rugby and not try their hand at league?
And what about the $10M+ that the ARU has granted since around 2003? Is that not a little bit of a thanks.
Without the professional arm, how much exposure would the amateur game get? Would it be like hockey?
I'm not saying the Shute shield should not benefit. That's really the purpose of administering the game isn't it? I just think it's a bit of HJ's comment "what have the Romans done for us lately".
And what about the $10M+ that the ARU has granted since around 2003? Is that not a little bit of a thanks.
Without the professional arm, how much exposure would the amateur game get? Would it be like hockey?
I'm not saying the Shute shield should not benefit. That's really the purpose of administering the game isn't it? I just think it's a bit of HJ's comment "what have the Romans done for us lately".
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