Shute Shield 2016

[AussieDominance]

I'd like to see someone from Gordon list a team of ex-Gordon players playing with other Sydney clubs. I can think of a few such as Gower, Coupland, Barry, Tom Hill. Is there a full team?

How much stronger would Gordon be with those guys in the team?

It seems the bottom 4 teams this year (Penrith, Gordon, Parra, Wests) all have quite a few quality players who've left to join other clubs.

To be honest theres obviously always players from your club that play at other clubs I bet you could name a fair few Randwick guys as well but for a list of higher graders who played a season of senior rugby at Gordon I suppose.

Off the top of my head :

Manly : Gower
Warringah : Ward (colts), Curtin
Eastwood : Plokstys, Barry, Hill, Miles McCaffrey (colts)
Souths : Maumalanga's, Tabuatamata
West Harbour : Games
Randwick : Coupland

Gower, Ward, Plokstys, Barry, McCaffrey, Games all left when the financial problems turned into a disaster roughly about half a decade ago.

Since then the Maumalanga's went back to Souths, Tabuatamata lives near Souths. Coupland would most probably be in 2nd grade at Gordon and Curtin chose to pursue opportunities at Warringah but would be playing 2nd or 3rd grade at Gordon in most instances without injuries. Ward got selected in 3rd grade the year out of Colts - poor decision in hindsight. Hill chose to play in a more competitive side to push for representative rugby and at that point I would say he made the correct decision if a player was making that decision now I would say I would put my hand on my heart and be honest that I think Gordon can now support representative rugby players where as just after that period after the financial problem I think the lack of pathway through colts and into grade as well as lack of senior players would have made it difficult for most players to shine.

If I am going to be honest that's not that many in a normal functioning club players generally sometimes decide to move for various reasons. I actually think the loyalty in terms of playing for the club is some is of the highest quality we don't have many guys threaten to go to other clubs people are playing for the right reasons at Gordon ever since the decision to not pay players came about.

Currently you see a fair few Gordon juniors in the grade scene floating about that is because the Colts has only really been fixed in the last 2 - 3 seasons and in about 5 seasons hopefully that trend continues to change.

You will also be pleased to know that Gordon can more than sustain a program now as they have paid off all financial obligations to debtors and have established a foundation.

I would say the club's sponsorship now in full effect is some of the highest in the Shute Shield.

In an effort to do this sustainably though they haven't rushed out and instantly tried to attract players for the wrong reasons (money). Producing through Colts is the way they see the future and I tend to agree obviously attracting at the top end has benefits as well though.

This playing group is very young this year with 25 players roughly coming up from last season's colts this next season (2017) will see a similar number join them it could be a few years but I believe it is not that far off.

As most people who have watched grade rugby know 20 year olds get bashed physically and grade rugby players are having shorter careers.

Experienced players are invaluable!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The thing to be cautious of when developing through investing in colts is that there needs to be a healthy turnover of Grade playing stocks otherwise the graduating colts can only look forward to playing 3rds or 4ths for an extended period due to the more experienced and equally talented players still with the club in the 1s & 2s.

 

[the coach]

The thing to be cautious of when developing through investing in colts is that there needs to be a healthy turnover of Grade playing stocks otherwise the graduating colts can only look forward to playing 3rds or 4ths for an extended period due to the more experienced and equally talented players still with the club in the 1s & 2s.

You're right HJ, but it works both ways. Something like 70% of last years' colts moved up to grade at the Wicks this year which resulted in many long termers ending up on the bench for 4s or going elsewhere. It was OK for most of the year but now with a heavy injury toll the club would probably like some of those 3rd graders / fringe 2nd graders back.
Part of the reason why the likes of Freier, Phibbs and Hoiles (and almost Turinui) have come out of retirement I suspect ie to provide some experienced support for the young guys. The club was outplayed in all grades by Eastwood last Saturday and 1sts was without 4 forwards --- Hoiles, Baldwin, Freier and Satuala and were outmuscled everywhere.

 

[AussieDominance]

Out of interest are the guys getting injured the 1st year grade players?

 

[the coach]

Out of interest are the guys getting injured the 1st year grade players?

Yes, quite a few of them are missing in action from the lower grades at the moment. The 1st graders who are injured have mainly been around for a few years.

 

[MACCA]

You're right HJ, but it works both ways. Something like 70% of last years' colts moved up to grade at the Wicks this year which resulted in many long termers ending up on the bench for 4s or going elsewhere. It was OK for most of the year but now with a heavy injury toll the club would probably like some of those 3rd graders / fringe 2nd graders back.
Part of the reason why the likes of Freier, Phibbs and Hoiles (and almost Turinui) have come out of retirement I suspect ie to provide some experienced support for the young guys. The club was outplayed in all grades by Eastwood last Saturday and 1sts was without 4 forwards --- Hoiles, Baldwin, Freier and Satuala and were outmuscled everywhere.

Hi Coach - no point in putting lipstick on a Labrador however disagree. The woodies won fairly & squarely no doubt however Wicks had virtually no ball due to the scrum being broken and the Wicks playing with 13 & 14 players for long periods. Cant recall many line breaks by the Woodies and think that the Wicks will be OK if they can fix the scrum. "IF"

 

[the coach]

Hi Coach - no point in putting lipstick on a Labrador however disagree. The woodies won fairly & squarely no doubt however Wicks had virtually no ball due to the scrum being broken and the Wicks playing with 13 & 14 players for long periods. Cant recall many line breaks by the Woodies and think that the Wicks will be OK if they can fix the scrum. "IF"

I agree about the scrum Macca, it was going OK (and dominating some weeks) with Hoiles, Freier, Baldwin and particularly Satuala on the park. Five players yellow carded in 1sts and 2nds didn't help, but most were after the games were lost and were due to frustration. Agree Woodies won fairly and squarely --- the sleeping giant has awoken. The other teams in the playoffs will be hoping Rats and Marlins win this week so the Woodies miss out on the playoffs!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

To be honest theres obviously always players from your club that play at other clubs I bet you could name a fair few Randwick guys as well but for a list of higher graders who played a season of senior rugby at Gordon I suppose.

Off the top of my head :

Manly : Gower
Warringah : Ward (colts), Curtin
Eastwood : Plokstys, Barry, Hill, Miles McCaffrey (colts)
Souths : Maumalanga's, Tabuatamata
West Harbour : Games
Randwick : Coupland

Gower, Ward, Plokstys, Barry, McCaffrey, Games all left when the financial problems turned into a disaster roughly about half a decade ago.

Since then the Maumalanga's went back to Souths, Tabuatamata lives near Souths. Coupland would most probably be in 2nd grade at Gordon and Curtin chose to pursue opportunities at Warringah but would be playing 2nd or 3rd grade at Gordon in most instances without injuries. Ward got selected in 3rd grade the year out of Colts - poor decision in hindsight. Hill chose to play in a more competitive side to push for representative rugby and at that point I would say he made the correct decision if a player was making that decision now I would say I would put my hand on my heart and be honest that I think Gordon can now support representative rugby players where as just after that period after the financial problem I think the lack of pathway through colts and into grade as well as lack of senior players would have made it difficult for most players to shine.

If I am going to be honest that's not that many in a normal functioning club players generally sometimes decide to move for various reasons. I actually think the loyalty in terms of playing for the club is some is of the highest quality we don't have many guys threaten to go to other clubs people are playing for the right reasons at Gordon ever since the decision to not pay players came about.

Currently you see a fair few Gordon juniors in the grade scene floating about that is because the Colts has only really been fixed in the last 2 - 3 seasons and in about 5 seasons hopefully that trend continues to change.

You will also be pleased to know that Gordon can more than sustain a program now as they have paid off all financial obligations to debtors and have established a foundation.

I would say the club's sponsorship now in full effect is some of the highest in the Shute Shield.

In an effort to do this sustainably though they haven't rushed out and instantly tried to attract players for the wrong reasons (money). Producing through Colts is the way they see the future and I tend to agree obviously attracting at the top end has benefits as well though.

This playing group is very young this year with 25 players roughly coming up from last season's colts this next season (2017) will see a similar number join them it could be a few years but I believe it is not that far off.

As most people who have watched grade rugby know 20 year olds get bashed physically and grade rugby players are having shorter careers.

Experienced players are invaluable!

Geez you went easy on Randwick there - half their colts come from Gordon (juniors)

 

[Learned One]

Really?
It's him or Cron for coach of the year IMO,with daylight a clear third.

Agree Easts and Norths are well coached but Tim Davidson in his first year as head coach has led Sydney Uni to the Club Championship with a round to spare . This is largely due to a much improved performance from 1st grade.As such he must be a strong contender for coach of the year .
In fact, with such a close season I think coach of the year is a very difficult decision . Perhaps it comes down to performances in the finals.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Geez you went easy on Randwick there - half their colts come from Gordon (juniors)

The Wix may have a few Colts from Highlander territory, but half? I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

There are a number of Colts at many clubs (not only Randi-Wix) that may have represented Gordon (or another club) one or more times at a Junior State Championships before they disappeared into the Private Schools rugby machine. Not many clubs without any registration "anomalies". The Emus may be the only mob with an entirely home grown roster.

The concept that a Club may somehow have ownership rights for an unlimited duration over an athlete simply because they may have played for a Junior Village Club affiliated with that Club for a few years, and/or nominated to represent that Club at one or more Junior State Championships rears its ugly head from time to time. It is about as valid as blaming the rise in the divorce rate on the rise in private motor car ownership.

While Gordon may bemoan the loss of some of the child prodigies who may have once donned a Highlander jumper at State Champs to other clubs post school, It is not an unusual phenomena to see a child who resides outside the nominal geographic footprint of Gordon playing for one of their more geographically flexible village clubs or their State Champs team. Once again they are not the only club to have a QLD SOO approach in their junior program.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

^^^^^^All true, HJ, however, in the 80s and early 90s (pre the pro era) we had a Randwick OB in charge of the Wobblies and they were most adept and convincing all and sundry to play at the wix.
History repeats, or rhymes.

 

[AussieDominance]

The Wix may have a few Colts from Highlander territory, but half? I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

There are a number of Colts at many clubs (not only Randi-Wix) that may have represented Gordon (or another club) one or more times at a Junior State Championships before they disappeared into the Private Schools rugby machine. Not many clubs without any registration "anomalies". The Emus may be the only mob with an entirely home grown roster.

The concept that a Club may somehow have ownership rights for an unlimited duration over an athlete simply because they may have played for a Junior Village Club affiliated with that Club for a few years, and/or nominated to represent that Club at one or more Junior State Championships rears its ugly head from time to time. It is about as valid as blaming the rise in the divorce rate on the rise in private motor car ownership.

While Gordon may bemoan the loss of some of the child prodigies who may have once donned a Highlander jumper at State Champs to other clubs post school, It is not an unusual phenomena to see a child who resides outside the nominal geographic footprint of Gordon playing for one of their more geographically flexible village clubs or their State Champs team. Once again they are not the only club to have a QLD SOO approach in their junior program.

I don't know as many current Colts backgrounds from Randwick and other clubs as I did a few seasons ago but the current Randwick 1st grade side contains more Gordon juniors (Deegan, Kellaway's, Short, Hutchison/Figg when available) not necessarily the current Colts now if I am correct (Molloy, Woodhill)?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Some prejudices hang around for a while, don't they?

 

[I like to watch]

Keep up big arse, the post immediately before yours names a handful of recent schoolboy rockstars the Wicks poached.
It excludes a handful more.
Is it ten Oz schoolboys since 2014?
I don't know how you can possibly infer this is ancient history.
Not saying it's right or it's wrong,just saying its a happening thing

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Keep up big arse, the post immediately before yours names a handful of recent schoolboy rockstars the Wicks poached.
It excludes a handful more.
Is it ten Oz schoolboys since 2014?
I don't know how you can possibly infer this is ancient history.
Not saying it's right or it's wrong,just saying its a happening thing

HJ just stirring the pot

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I don't know as many current Colts backgrounds from Randwick and other clubs as I did a few seasons ago but the current Randwick 1st grade side contains more Gordon juniors (Deegan, Kellaway's, Short, Hutchison/Figg when available) not necessarily the current Colts now if I am correct (Molloy, Woodhill)?

Mitch Short

 

[MACCA]

Mitch Short

Shame those players had no say in it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[I like to watch]

HJ just stirring the pot

Shit!
I need an interlock device on this computer!

Must not touch after a long lunch, must not touch after a long lunch,must not...

 

[The Galah]

Agree Easts and Norths are well coached but Tim Davidson in his first year as head coach has led Sydney Uni to the Club Championship with a round to spare . This is largely due to a much improved performance from 1st grade.As such he must be a strong contender for coach of the year .
In fact, with such a close season I think coach of the year is a very difficult decision . Perhaps it comes down to performances in the finals.

Hard to disagree and a damn good bloke and not a bit stuck up by all accounts

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Keep up big arse, the post immediately before yours names a handful of recent schoolboy rockstars the Wicks poached.
It excludes a handful more.
Is it ten Oz schoolboys since 2014?
I don't know how you can possibly infer this is ancient history.
Not saying it's right or it's wrong,just saying its a happening thing

These went to the Wicks Colts out of school:
2015: 4 Aust Schoolboys, 1 Barbarian. (Incl 1 former local junior player)
2014: 2 Schoolboys. (No Aust A team)
2013: 4 Aust Schoolboys, 2 Aust A. (Incl 1 former local Junior player)
2012: no figures
2011: 3 Aust Schoolboys. (incl 1 former local junior player)