Springboks v Wallabies, Newlands, September 28 2013

[Joe Blow]

So, what now for our back 3?
Folau is somewhat inexperienced. Beale, Mogg and now Juice(JOC (James O'Connor)) are unavailable. Playing Folau with Cummins and Tomane and/or Betham and/or CFS could be a disaster. We need at least 2 of our back 3 to be able to kick a little.
To'omua to 15? Or Quade? AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to the back 3?
What a fu@xxng mess. The Wallabies cannot catch a decent break at the moment.

 

[KOB1987]

^^^^ I reckon you're on to something.

Assuming Cummins is out I'd go 10. To'omua 11. Folau 14. Tomane or CFS 15. QC (Quade Cooper)

Cummins at 14 if available.

Better to leave AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13 than bring Kuridrani in.

And I don't reckon it looks that fu@XXing messy!

 

[Zander]

CFS will have to start.

 

[Joe Blow]

^^^^ I reckon you're on to something.

Assuming Cummins is out I'd go 10. To'omua 11. Folau 14. Tomane or CFS 15. QC (Quade Cooper)

Better to leave AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13 than bring Kuridrani in.

And I don't reckon it looks that fu@XXing messy!

It is what it is. The decision to drop JOC (James O'Connor) is the correct one and the team will suffer in the short term in order to be stronger for the future.

We are looking down the barrel for this mini tour.

 

[Brumbieman]

Why the hell is everyone talking about CFS for god sake? Has he played any rugby in the last few months? He's just a young kid with a lot of potential, he is most certainly not a starting option for this game.

Folau stays 15. Tomane goes on one wing (he's big, powerful, and very good under the high ball). The other wing....hmmm TBH i'd play AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) ont he wing and bring Kuridrani into 13.

Lealiifano and Kuridrani have the centre combination already, so they're not going to be caught short as a new pairing. He's big, tackles aggressively and runs hard and straight, which TBH we need a bit more of. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has played a lot of wing and will just slot straight back in there an not become a target, like any of Betham or CFS would be.

Bearing all that in mind, i'd probably also go with To'omua at 10. Quade was good last week, but we really need an aggressive, rock solid defensive line, and regardless of how well Quade defended last week, he's not a dominant aggressive tackler. Plus, with White in line to start, the familiarity for the whole midfield would be really invaluable. Also, with no O'Connor and no recognised kickers left in our outside backs, we'll need a 10 who kicks really well and can play field position. If the game opens up a bit and doesn't turn into a slogfest, give Cooper 35 minutes to try and work some magic.

Yes, go on call me biased blah blah, but what better backline could we name right now that doesn't include a couple of complete rookies making their debut agaisnt the Boks at Newlands where they will be targetted by the largest, angriest Springboks tht can be fielded?

Robinson
Moore
Alexander (would prefer Slipper but Link clearly reckons he's a loosehead. )
Fardy
Horwill (fit? )
Mowen
Hooper
McCalman

White
To'omua
Tomane
Lealiifano
Kuridrani
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Folau

We need a big, aggressive backline for this test, with a back three who will not fall apart taking high balls. We don't have a better option than that right now.

 

[Zander]

Probably because Ewen already said he's starting a debutant on the wing.

 

[lewisr]

I Highly doubt QC (Quade Cooper) will play 15. I personally don't mind it but I don't think Ewen is keen.

Agree with Brumbieman on this. But my reds bias says quade at 10. Again, I don't really mind who starts there at this stage. They are both on par and will offer something different. But if we get smashed up front again, it really won't matter.

Robinson
Moore
Alexander (would prefer Slipper but Link clearly reckons he's a loosehead. )
Fardy
Horwill (fit? )
Mowen
Hooper
McCalman

White
Cooper
Tomane
Lealiifano
Kuridrani
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Folau

 

[ChargerWA]

Why the hell is everyone talking about CFS for god sake? Has he played any rugby in the last few months? He's just a young kid with a lot of potential, he is most certainly not a starting option for this game.

Folau stays 15. Tomane goes on one wing (he's big, powerful, and very good under the high ball). The other wing..hmmm TBH i'd play AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) ont he wing and bring Kuridrani into 13.

Lealiifano and Kuridrani have the centre combination already, so they're not going to be caught short as a new pairing. He's big, tackles aggressively and runs hard and straight, which TBH we need a bit more of. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has played a lot of wing and will just slot straight back in there an not become a target, like any of Betham or CFS would be.

Bearing all that in mind, i'd probably also go with To'omua at 10. Quade was good last week, but we really need an aggressive, rock solid defensive line, and regardless of how well Quade defended last week, he's not a dominant aggressive tackler. Plus, with White in line to start, the familiarity for the whole midfield would be really invaluable. Also, with no O'Connor and no recognised kickers left in our outside backs, we'll need a 10 who kicks really well and can play field position. If the game opens up a bit and doesn't turn into a slogfest, give Cooper 35 minutes to try and work some magic.

Yes, go on call me biased blah blah, but what better backline could we name right now that doesn't include a couple of complete rookies making their debut agaisnt the Boks at Newlands where they will be targetted by the largest, angriest Springboks tht can be fielded?

Robinson
Moore
Alexander (would prefer Slipper but Link clearly reckons he's a loosehead. )
Fardy
Horwill (fit? )
Mowen
Hooper
McCalman

White
To'omua
Tomane
Lealiifano
Kuridrani
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Folau

We need a big, aggressive backline for this test, with a back three who will not fall apart taking high balls. We don't have a better option than that right now.

No that's not biased. Your reasoning makes sense. I could go with that 15 (with Slipper at 3).

 

[Parse]

<snip>

White
To'omua
Tomane
Lealiifano
Kuridrani
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Folau

We need a big, aggressive backline for this test, with a back three who will not fall apart taking high balls. We don't have a better option than that right now.

The problem I see with that is you have got 6 out of the 7 backs never having played a test match outside of Australia before. The Boks at Newlands is a tough ask, even if the team was going well. Having that much inexperience could easily spell disaster. I would be picking at least a few guys that have somewhat more experience.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

You have to balance form and experience.

All the experience is of little worth if a player is not playing well.

 

[USARugger]

If Betham wasn't such a shit tackler I'd be calling for him over Tomane. Tomane would be lucky to be considered 'solid' in his tests so far. If anything he's been very quiet and has even made his fair share of mistakes in spite of doing anything special or remarkable.

Hopefully he makes me eat my words but I always thought he would transition to test rugby better than he has. Also a bit fuzzy trying to gauge an outside back that largely played in the twilight of the Deans era.

 

[Parse]

You have to balance form and experience.

All the experience is of little worth if a player is not playing well.

Yes but there isn't much of a balance between form and experience in Brumbieman's list of backs.

Other then Folau, I wouldn't consider any of the backs (in the full squad) to have been "playing well".

Edit: oops, you could say Nick White played well - but that's only one game.

 

[KOB1987]

the path of least disruption is:

9. White
10. Cooper
11. Cummins or Tomane
12. Lilo
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. CFS or Betham
15. Folau

I'm thinking that's what he'll do, but I'd go:

9. White
10. To'omua
11. Folau
12. Lilo
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Cummins or Tomane
15. QC (Quade Cooper)

Gets the best talent on the park rather than just filling in holes. I'd rather Izzy at 15 overall but with this line up, thats what I'd do

 

[Hawko]

the path of least disruption is:

9. White
10. Cooper
11. Cummins or Tomane
12. Lilo
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. CFS or Betham
15. Folau

I'm thinking that's what he'll do, but I'd go:

9. White
10. To'omua
11. Folau
12. Lilo
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Cummins or Tomane
15. QC (Quade Cooper)

Gets the best talent on the park rather than just filling in holes. I'd rather Izzy at 15 overall but with this line up, thats what I'd do

Ask yourself what would the NZ selectors do. They very rarely muck around with peoples positions, they just look to the next reserve in the position that is open. Typical is what they have done at 10 this year. They were down to their fifth player in line when Taylor played at 10, but they still picked him rather than move someone else out of position. They did so knowing that they had experienced players either side of him to keep him settled. But what would they know?

And please don't tell me they have more depth than us. If you handle injuries and suspensions in this way then depth develops naturally.

 

[I like to watch]

Who would be our 5th pick fly half?
What would the reaction be if the 5th choice was picked to start in a Test against a major nation?

 

[No4918]

Who would be our 5th pick fly half?
What would the reaction be if the 5th choice was picked to start in a Test against a major nation?

Cooper/To'omua, Foley, Lilo, Beale

If we ended up with any of them through injury it would not be so bad. A lot better than 5th choice in other positions.

 

[ChargerWA]

Who would be our 5th pick fly half?
What would the reaction be if the 5th choice was picked to start in a Test against a major nation?

JOC (James O'Connor)

We know how that went.

 

[Brumbieman]

The problem I see with that is you have got 6 out of the 7 backs never having played a test match outside of Australia before. The Boks at Newlands is a tough ask, even if the team was going well. Having that much inexperience could easily spell disaster. I would be picking at least a few guys that have somewhat more experience.

Such as?

With Kuridrani into the centres, we're playing someone with little test experience, but it'd be exactly the same situation on the wing if we don't. I'd go with that, because Kuridrani at 13 I think would be much more solid and less liable to implode, than CFS or Betham on the wing where they'll be targetted from kicks.

At 13, the only way they can target Kuridrani is by running at him, which would probably backfire on them.

13. Kuridrani
14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

is much more solid than

13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Betham/CFS/complete rookie playing their first test.

 

[Viking]

Ask yourself what would the NZ selectors do. They very rarely muck around with peoples positions, they just look to the next reserve in the position that is open. Typical is what they have done at 10 this year. They were down to their fifth player in line when Taylor played at 10, but they still picked him rather than move someone else out of position. They did so knowing that they had experienced players either side of him to keep him settled. But what would they know?

And please don't tell me they have more depth than us. If you handle injuries and suspensions in this way then depth develops naturally.

Very well said Hawko!

Id keep the same backline, bring in a rookie winger.

 

[Joe Blow]

The Boks and the Pumas will both play a kicking game for field possession and also use the box kick regularly.
I would not be a fan of moving AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) away from 13 under normal circumstances, but these are anything but.
For these 2 tests I would have AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 15, Folau back on the wing, Kuridrani at 13 and Tomane on the other wing.