Steyn vs O'connor

[eddo]

Gagger got upset coz I wasn't "contributing" in the last few months.. So I thought I'd throw this one out.


Frans Steyn had much of the same hype about him that JOC (James O'Connor) has received in his rise to fame. While being very different players (size and shape) they have certain similarities for better or worse.

The Good:
i) both came onto the scene with the regional media foretelling the coming of the messiah
ii) both barely had a hair downstairs when they get their start and were wreaking devastation on backlines through pure youthful willingness to have a crack at anything.

The Ordinary:
i) Both are capable of being overawed by the situation and making quality fuckups (JOC (James O'Connor)'s appearances since the 3-try debut have been shadows of what we talk him up to be.
ii) both have and will be bandied around the backline due to their 'versatility' and, I feel, risk falling short of becoming world class in any one position.
iii) both have woeful hair and risk being labeled the next best pretty boy at the back since Percy Monty.

The Differences:
i) Frans can kick a ball and turn it into a 25 carat diamond.
ii) JOC (James O'Connor) had giteau mentoring him and now doesn't.


so,..

Who would you rather pick on your intl world 15? and Where would you put the youthful talent to use.
also
What steps do you think need to be taken to develop either player into the future wonder we all cast for them?

Will one of these two prove to be the better talent over the next 10 years? Steyn already has several trophies in his cupboard. JOC (James O'Connor) 0

Discuss.

 

[eddo]

Both can look pretty queer at times.

 

[Newb]

interesting topic. i'll give it a go....

steyn is what, 22 now? and has had a few seasons with the sharks and boks now. so obviously ahead in the timeline on JOC (James O'Connor) and has had more time to improve. i think he's really starting to show himself though. fits well with the bok team as a fullback. decent defense, especially in their cover scheme and seems better suited to that position on offense as opposed to in the centers. if i recall, most of his gaffs have been when he's called on to do too much with the ball. gift of a boot. long kicks for goal, droppies, and out of hand he's world class. definite advantage there over JOC (James O'Connor).

but JOC (James O'Connor) will hopefully fill out his frame more and lengthen his kick. he showed a decent boot in S14 matches already. the thing that has impressed me about JOC (James O'Connor) is that he tends to play bigger than his frame already. given a few more years to grow and i think he could live up to it all. he has the mentality to back himself and play hard, which you can't coach. i'm often amazed at the things he does in games as a kid against men, and he is a kid still. has the skill to be much better with ball in hand than franz though - by a mile.

i think they'll always be different player types even if they end up in the same position. steyn will most likely always have a bigger boot but like i said i think JOC (James O'Connor) will be much better as an attacking/distributing weapon. put some pounds on the kid and he'd be a great inside center. now that steyn is off to frog land it will be interesting to see if he continues to develop and at what position.

right now, i'd go with steyn. but come RWC time i'd pick JOC (James O'Connor). the signs are there. just give it time.

 

[Scotty]

Pretty much agree with Newb. I'd pick Steyn right now out of the two, but think that JO'C has the greater potential in all areas except kicking. I think he has shown more so far than Steyn did at the same age (although I obvsiously didn't see much if anything of Steyn at that age).

Steyn should be very close to his best considering how long he has been involved with the Boks and at S14 level. If this is as good as he gets then he won't be considered world class (I think he is overrated on occasion). O'Connor is probably no where near his best so we will have to re-judge in a few years.

 

[Cutter]

Pretty much agree with Newb. I'd pick Steyn right now out of the two, but think that JO'C has the greater potential in all areas except kicking. I think he has shown more so far than Steyn did at the same age (although I obvsiously didn't see much if anything of Steyn at that age).

Steyn should be very close to his best considering how long he has been involved with the Boks and at S14 level. If this is as good as he gets then he won't be considered world class (I think he is overrated on occasion). O'Connor is probably no where near his best so we will have to re-judge in a few years.

Scotty you saw more than you think of Steyn at a similar age. He won a world cup when he had just turned 20.

They are both enormous talents. We expected much more from them at a young age than we are entitled to. Steyn has played for a strong team for his whole senior career and has had senior players around him to teach him including Michalak, Percy and Pienaar at the Sharks. O'Connor has played for an average team but has had Giteau and Staniforth to show him the ropes. Next year it will be just Pretorious. Both have had good coaches at provincial and international level. Interestingly, I think Steyn played his most consistent rugby when Eddie Jones was helping out Jake White.

I think both will end up at 12.

Another interesting parallel will be Brussouw and Pocock.

 

[Scotty]

20 is young, but a big difference to 17 or 18 in a rugby development sense.

 

[Newb]

i forgot to mention that i desperately hope JOC (James O'Connor) changes that hair! christ he looks like a poof....

 

[disco]

I unlike most Aussies don't really rate JOC (James O'Connor) that highly ATM he's one of these new breed of young players like Quade, Kurtley, Karmicheal & Benji that are flashy front runners with all the fancy moves but really suck in defence & have a flakey kicking game.

He needs to work on his defence before he can be considered a genuine test player ATM he's handy off the bench but there is no way I would start him in the frontline against the Springboks.

 

[Scotty]

He is better in defense, and stronger in contact that Cooper or Beale.

 

[PaarlBok]

Havent see much of OConnor to compare to Frans. Frans sure have done that, been there before at the moment. Not doubting his talent but he havent fullfil it 100%. I love watching him when the players practise their kicks before matches and always look like punting them over by place or drop from much futher then the other kickers. He sure is a big & strong boy and is impress the way he slot in the 15 position and improving each match thus far.

Is looking forward to see OConnor improving on the big stage. Nothing better to see youngsters play to their potential. Their biggest problem is usually in the head dealing being famous. Thats the one that usually is their downfall.

 

[disco]

He is better in defense, and stronger in contact that Cooper or Beale.

That's no great achievement, he's still poor compared to other small blokes like Gits, Barnes & Burgess.

 

[Gagger]

Thanks Eddo, I feel so much better.

My biggest problem with Steyn (apart from looking like Napoleon Dynamite), is his dummy spitting.

Get in his face and he literally has a brat attack on the paddock.

The Waratahs have touched him up that way just about everytime they've played him, and who could forget the drop goal attempts for the BaaBaas at Wemberley?

Haven't seen that from JO'C. Yet.

 

[The Amazing Tah-Man]

I'll take a proven thing over an exciting maybe any day. Steyne has already won an Tri-nations game for the Springboks against the Wallabies and won a world cup. The first comparison I make when I think of JOC (James O'Connor) is Rathbone. He started his Wallaby career with a hat trick and a lot of hype but look at him now. As for Steyne, I see him as a new Ma'a Nonu. Uncanny physicality and impact on the game, but just needs a few years to sort out the kinks.

 

[Cutter]

20 is young, but a big difference to 17 or 18 in a rugby development sense.

Agreed, but JOC (James O'Connor) is 19 now and 19 v 20 is comparable.

Gagger - speaking of Napoleon Dynamite, and way off topic, have you seen Blades of Glory? Classic.

 

[Gagger]

That is off topic, but yes. Was good but Farrell fatigue was setting in.

 

[Scotty]

That's no great achievement, he's still poor compared to other small blokes like Gits, Barnes & Burgess.

Barnes is the youngest of those, and also the best defender but he has also had the benefit of league training. Barnes has 3 years on JOC (James O'Connor) and the other two have over 5 years. They should be better defenders. I will be surprised if he (JOC (James O'Connor)) turns out to be only an average defender.

 

[eddo]

Righto - so pretty conclusively picking Steyne over JOC (James O'Connor).. with a reconsider due in 2 years.


I was surprised to see so much pessimism about JOC (James O'Connor)'s future. It wasn't that long ago when the board was full of the good juice about his prospects.

 

[Henry]

Thanks Eddo, I feel so much better.

My biggest problem with Steyn (apart from looking like Napoleon Dynamite), is his dummy spitting.

Get in his face and he literally has a brat attack on the paddock.

Hey, he has a beard now, so in his head he is pretttttty tough

 

[disco]

Well I'd give the points to JOC (James O'Connor) in a well beaten side last night & apologies to Gagger as he pulled off a brilliant try saver on Spies late in the 1st half also.

 

[Blue]

Well I'd give the points to JOC (James O'Connor) in a well beaten side last night & apologies to Gagger as he pulled off a brilliant try saver on Spies late in the 1st half also.

Given that situation again, 9 out of ten times Spies would score. Fantastic tackle. Hard and low.

O'Connor will need solid man management. Steyn was well mentored early on but I think atr the Sharks for a couple of years he wasn't looked after. This year one gets a sense that he is well managed. Seems happier and much more focussed.

I hope young James keeps his head and gets the right mentoring. Haircut or no haircut.