Sydney Colts 2012

[Spewn]

Complete garbage mate. You dont know what you are talking about.

Not quite sure what you're blowing up about HGH. My comment was that the non-returners were likely to be those who wouldn't make colts 1s. Nothing about payments. I don't know anything about payments and don't care - apart from what seems a major effort by Norths to attract better players. I think the main reason guys move is because they won't get a chance in ones. Do you disagree?

 

[eastman]

This seems to be a typical Eastern Suburbs response when the blowtorch is turned on them. There is a player who joined my club in 2011 after playing at Easts in 2010. He received the $5K "Colts" scholarship you speak of. He did not play one game all year in colts yet they attempted to have him used in semi finals. You are correct, it's only the 1 player who receives the $5K but the fact is, that Easts have been paying Colts players for years............

Perhaps this is one of the many reasons why their 2011 annual report showed a $297K financial loss for the year.

I'm assuming the player in question was Jacob Woodhouse? From what I've heard Manly offered him more than an 'opportunity' to play there

 

[Grandstand]

Not sure what all the fuss is about in paying colts players. It is a fact of life that clubs such as Norths, Uni, Easts and no doubt there are others (Manly ?) that have been paying colts for a number of years. This is a simple fact of meeting or creating a market for talented youngsters. If rugby clubs are not prepared to invest in talent there is no doubt that our Mungo friends are more than happy to do so. Plenty of examples such as Tyson Frizzel who slipped through the rugby net. Better to keep these young players in rugby by meeting the market than loose them altogether.

If some clubs have deeper pockets that is a also a function of the market at play, there is no need for them to be apologetic. I personally think that selective investing in emerging talent makes much more sense than paying guys in their twilight years in the senior ranks.

 

[Knuckles]

I don't think it's a matter of being apologetic for paying Colts players..............my club has done it for years and will continue to do so. The isssue I have is that some clubs by paying average colts above average payments it unnecessarily increases the market. But what really urks me is that some of these clubs who pay Colts are making direct representations to ARU crying foul that they are struggling financially and need a leg up from the national union.

There was a meeting on Monday night at ARU of all Sydney clubs and Matt Carroll and Anthony Eddy from ARU. Don't be surprised when the ARU make a rule in the future that Colts players cannot be paid........................

 

[Knuckles]

I'm assuming the player in question was Jacob Woodhouse? From what I've heard Manly offered him more than an 'opportunity' to play there

Indeed. But guess what, it was less than what he was on at Easts and this year, he is only on match fees. He came to Manly because of the lifestyle and a number of his close mates from school at the club.

I am lead to believe though that Parramatta organised for his placement into his GPS school (he was a Parramatta junior from U11-U16). Bet they are filthy they haven't seen him in a Two Blues jersey as a result of their efforts

 

[Informer]

There was a meeting on Monday night at ARU of all Sydney clubs and Matt Carroll and Anthony Eddy from ARU. Don't be surprised when the ARU make a rule in the future that Colts players cannot be paid........................[/quote]

That would be slitting their own throat as the ARL would love the chance to have open slather on the best new talent. Would be better if the ARU found a little change from the world cup and allocated say $10k per Sydney and Brisbane club to be used exclusively for colts. That would help level the playing field.

 

[In the know I think.]

There was a meeting on Monday night at ARU of all Sydney clubs and Matt Carroll and Anthony Eddy from ARU. Don't be surprised when the ARU make a rule in the future that Colts players cannot be paid........................

That would be slitting their own throat as the ARL would love the chance to have open slather on the best new talent. Would be better if the ARU found a little change from the world cup and allocated say $10k per Sydney and Brisbane club to be used exclusively for colts. That would help level the playing field.[/quote]

Gents- I have coached at colts level for many years and have recently had a son do the transition school boy, colts grade. If an ARL club want a young bloke and money is the driver, they will get them. For the talented kids we are talking payments of a factor of 10 or more than what the best offers are for playing colts.
This has been happening for over 15years and unless each club get $100K not $10K to use on colts you wont get the dollar seekers. The question is do we want the guys that just want the dollars?

 

[Done that]

Gents- I have coached at colts level for many years and have recently had a son do the transition school boy, colts grade. If an ARL club want a young bloke and money is the driver, they will get them. For the talented kids we are talking payments of a factor of 10 or more than what the best offers are for playing colts.
This has been happening for over 15years and unless each club get $100K not $10K to use on colts you wont get the dollar seekers. The question is do we want the guys that just want the dollars?[/quote]
.............................................................................................................................................


I am aware of at least 6 first grade colts players from your own club (Wests) who have gone to rugby league in the past 18 months.There are a number from other clubs also.
These boys are subject to the strong influence & advice of agents ,( & virtually all talented & often untalented boys on leaving school these days are signed up by agents).
The agents also often seek to influence parents , who in turn reflect this influence on their sons , many of whom come from relatively low economic backgrounds
I know of several instances where a boy has expressed a preference to stay in Union but felt obliged to do what he was told .This also extends ,in some cases , to changing clubs within Union itself.

 

[In the know I think.]

Gents- I have coached at colts level for many years and have recently had a son do the transition school boy, colts grade. If an ARL club want a young bloke and money is the driver, they will get them. For the talented kids we are talking payments of a factor of 10 or more than what the best offers are for playing colts.
This has been happening for over 15years and unless each club get $100K not $10K to use on colts you wont get the dollar seekers. The question is do we want the guys that just want the dollars?

.............................................................................................................................................


I am aware of at least 6 first grade colts players from your own club (Wests) who have gone to rugby league in the past 18 months.There are a number from other clubs also.
These boys are subject to the strong influence & advice of agents ,( & virtually all talented & often untalented boys on leaving school these days are signed up by agents).
The agents also often seek to influence parents , who in turn reflect this influence on their sons , many of whom come from relatively low economic backgrounds
I know of several instances where a boy has expressed a preference to stay in Union but felt obliged to do what he was told .This also extends ,in some cases , to changing clubs within Union itself.[/quote]

You are correct - in coaching colts you will be amazed how many calls you get from agents saying his player is 100kgs and runs 12 or 11.5 sec 100s in boots. I normally suggest they should join the Commonwealth Games sprint team.
Agents want their 10 or 15% of more not less so ARL is the target regardless of what the kid wants.
Some, not all, in our district can do with the extra $s so you can't blame them.
Agents tend to look after themselves.
I will say that I spoke to one very very well known AFL coach about one player they were potentially taking and he said the kid was best suited to rugby so he would let him stay with us. Very refreshing and most appreciated attitude but very rare in my experience.

 

[Done that]

Anyone go to the Norths/Manly game ?

 

[Grandstand]

My take on this is that clubs like Parra and Penrith would welcome $10k if it helps to retain the services of a few key colts who then help to attract and retain other players. My experience with colts is that the first question players ask is which players has the club signed/retained. If the answer is none or not many most players will look around for a club in their general area with reasonable depth (Rats to Manly and Gordon to Norths and Eastwood in the last few years are cases in point).

 

[Tahboy]

Just with player agents / managers they do not make a cent until a player signs a pro deal of about 50k min
It's in the RUPA standard players agreement. Managers will only consider moving players if it is in the players interest to help there development
and get that crack at S15 and in the end it is the players decision not the managers and a manager is not going to suggest a player change club just so he can make 6% of basically nothing if he was allowed to charge a fee.

 

[Done that]

Just with player agents / managers they do not make a cent until a player signs a pro deal of about 50k min
It's in the RUPA standard players agreement. Managers will only consider moving players if it is in the players interest to help there development
and get that crack at S15 and in the end it is the players decision not the managers and a manager is not going to suggest a player change club just so he can make 6% of basically nothing if he was allowed to charge a fee.

As someone who says he has been involved with colts for a number of years , I am surprised with some of your comments.
Of course it is ultimately the players decision what he does & where & with whom he does it,
i.e. I am not suggesting that a player will be held down , or threatened with electrical charges to his testis , or stupefied with mind drugs ,to obtain his signature .
But to suggest that all players who switch codes actually want to switch codes , without any outside influence / pressure from others including that from managers directly or indirectly ,is just simply wrong.
And the same applies in certain situations with some of those that switch clubs.

Your remarks would suggest that managers are always beyond reproach , & their motives should go unchallenged.
I don't accept this view.

I agree that they probably make little or no money from many of the players they sign , but that does not stop the mad stampede to sign each years new crop of schoolboys does it.
How many of your Randwick players in the better teams , don't have a manager ?
And a number of managers I have spoken with , have had very scant knowledge about Rugby & the associated realities of playing it.

 

[Tahboy]

I was responding to comments in the know said about agents looking after themselves and I was just saying they get basically nothing until a 50k contract is signed.
A good manager at the right time is valuable and can make things happen for a player especially a player who did not make a name through the school system

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

Anyone go to the Norths/Manly game ?

Norths defeated Manly 5 tries to 1. The score was helped by Manly gifting 2 tries through intercepts but in reality Norths were deserved winners. Their defence was very strong and they capitalised on the many Manly errors. At half time the score was 4 tries to nil. After half time Norths made a number of changes in personnel but this did not stop the pattern and style of play.

Looking at the game the forward packs I thought were evenly matched in general play with Manly having the slightly better scrum but Norths having a dominant lineout. Manly had the better of field position for most of the game but the Norths defence and the inability of the Manly backs to finish things off through whetever advantage they had away.

As for the backs Norths were clearly ahead of the Manly backs. I did hear that the Manly coach was still trying out different combinations and playing players out of position but this does not excuse the inability to catch and pass and beat a man.

Best for Norths were the 6, 7, 9, 10 and 14 while the best for Manly were their 1, 4, 8 and 13.

 

[Done that]

The top 8 to make the cut off is reasonably easy to pick .
But who do people think will make the final 6 this year ?
Much more difficult I believe ,with not much trial form to go on , & new players at each club .
University look quite handy in the trial games & as always , are certain to be somewhere near the top , but not unbeatable I don't believe , while
a number of other clubs have shown glimpses of real potential .
My final 6 in no particular order are ; Uni , Easts , Norths , Randwick , Warringah , Wests , but I may not even be close.
A very interesting year.

 

[Tahboy]

I think you are pretty close Done That
Warringah in the top 6? Do you know something??
Eastwood out of the top 6?
Randwick play Eastwood on Saturday and I am sure both clubs will be missing players due to going away for Easter.
I'm looking forward to the season starting, last year was a good year of footy and this year looks better with a lot of very even teams. It will come down to which club had the better off season programmes and the better coaching structures

 

[Keithy]

Reports are West struggled to put Penrith away last night and the 5/8 was red carded. Love to here a full report.

 

[staedler]

Reports are West struggled to put Penrith away last night and the 5/8 was red carded. Love to here a full report.

Penrith have improved a lot since last year in both numbers and play, but to be true Wests were missing a lot of players with both halves and winger usually third graders. Was a very scrappy, somewhat unstructured game, with both teams very physical and ill disciplined at times. Wests scrum dominated and Penrith never really looked like scoring but did exceptionally well in defence to force errors, and they seemed to have their head more in the game then their counterparts. Jack Debrezceni is back from overseas this week so he will undoubtedly add structure and direction to Wests. If Penrith can keep their numbers up, they will surprise a few teams this year.

 

[Tahboy]

Hopefully this is the start of good things for the future at Penrith.