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Sydney Subbies 2016

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thetraitor

thetraitor

Chris McKivat (8)
I'd also add - I'm not involved with Waverley in any way but I know many people who are. They have a plan to win Kent well by building a strong culture.

i.e. they don't want to be one of those clubs who try to buy a premiership (Brothers, Hunters Hill or what Balmain has been accused of since their meteoric rise from Div 3). They want to stay successful even after promotion.

I don't think that dodging the rules is the kind of attitude or culture they've been working to build for a few years, so I don't think Ben Evans would be paid for what he does.
 
Seagull Butler

Seagull Butler

Chris McKivat (8)
thetraitor said:
I'm not involved with Waverley in any way

i.e. they don't want to be one of those clubs who try to buy a premiership (Brothers, Hunters Hill or what Balmain has been accused of since their meteoric rise from Div 3). They want to stay successful even after promotion.
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Bit pissed off by this mate, not enough to start name calling but am interested to know what club are you involved with if your going to make statements about us? Could add to the rivalry.

On buying premierships - I'm now in my seventh year at Hunters and played firsts for most of it, without payment, apart from the free sausages after like the ones which we also offered to Blue Mountains on the weekend. I'm not going to say players weren't helped with accommodation previously but actual payments? Laughable considering we were in pretty dire straits when I was treasurer (2012), suppose that's what happens when you put a forward on the books. Yet this keeps coming up time and again.

Positives for us from the weekend: We ran a fifth grade side for the first time in a few years (losing to HAC), when other clubs are struggling for numbers, won 4/5 against a tough Blue Mountains team and our colts are looking strong after a rough trot last year.

BTW - for those wanting to know out there - of the 21 players used so far in 1sts - 14 have played for us in previous years (4 of us for +5 years - not including juniors), 1 works with me, 3 had other family/friends ties to the club and 3 players came because of our coach - who's an absolute champ and is getting the best from us.
 
Nath

Nath

Bill Watson (15)
Pfitzy said:
If other sides in your division aren't updating their sheets, tell Subbies repeatedly that they're not complying with Competition Rules.

Tactically it's good to know who the danger men in the opposition are, but I'd rather concentrate on my team's performance.
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It's by no means the basis of my preparation.

But knowing they have a #8 that gets a meatie every week, might mean he's got a sneaky spin move off the scrum, or if 85% of their tries come from their back 3, might not be a great idea to kick it to them.
 
Prodigy

Prodigy

Alex Ross (28)
SackRobbie said:
And they are? I don't know of any Div 1,2,3 clubs that don't pay their 1st grade coach something
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No payment for Epping's first grade coach, except for the sausage sandwich and powerade he claims after playing fourth grade.

Knowing the guys at Hills, they would be the same.
 
Pfitzy

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Yes if you would - I've heard a rumour that the KOBs Committee told Subbies they wanted to stay in Div 3.
 
barbarian

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Heavyd said:
Barbarian, give us the insights into KOBS from here.
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I'm not involved on the committee any more, so don't have first-hand knowledge.

But the writing has been on the wall for a while. Ever since our 1st grade won the Barraclough Cup in 2010, and then 14 of the 15 players retired, things have been going downhill.

We've struggled to have any success in the top grades, with only a handful of wins in 1s and 2s over the past 3 years. That erodes your top level talent (who don't want to lose all the time) and then compounds the damage as 2nd and 3rd graders are forced higher to cover, and then lose even more.

Our success was in the lower grades, with a group of guys who have been together for around 10 years and wanted to play together (I have played with these guys for the past three years). After being there or thereabouts for five years without success, we made a big push last year, training hard chasing a title.

We managed to win 4ths (just!), and like 2010 about 75% of the team hung up the boots there and then.

So then the club lost all it had going for it- a good bunch of veterans in the lower grades.

Efforts at recruitment have been unsuccessful. Training in Glebe and playing at the school in Parramatta means you don't really have any 'home turf', and getting Kings boys to come and play is far harder than you would all think.

Now it's pretty much rock bottom, and who wants to come and play for a team that lose by 50 each week? I have been working weekends and unable to play, but frankly I am not sure I want to now. I'm a genuine 3rd grader, but the way things are now I'm up in 2s and subbing for 1s, which I really don't want.

I've got no idea what was said to Subbies, though I was told the club was up front with the issues faced at the start of the season.

It just seems like the system now will continue to punish KOBs for it's lack of top-level talent, and kill the club. We need to be able to drop 1s, and field a 2s and 3s side only, as the way things are now helps no-one, not even the teams winning by 80.
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Pfitzy

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Thanks barb. It fucking sucks, and I know because I've been there.

It is almost worth, at this point, Subbies moving you down, or letting someone play their Halligan team for your 4s at the very least.
 
SubbiesVeteran

SubbiesVeteran

Herbert Moran (7)
Pfitzy, that a great idea but has not particularly worked in the past. not saying it would happen now but going back to 2012 when Convicts played as St Georges 4th Grade team they ended up winning the comp by a long way which as I said may not happen now but you never know

Plus its tough on the club who then has to fill in for Kings 4th Grade, eg if you through Waverley, Colleagues or Mosman in their as that team then they wouldn't be able to be with their club at all throughout the season

I think Subbies would be better off for the rest of this season saying to Kings play 2s and 3s and then sit down and discuss next year

They really need to bring back Div 5, big step up from Div 6 going from 1 to 3 teams
 
Tommy Tudehope

Tommy Tudehope

Ted Fahey (11)
barbarian said:
It just seems like the system now will continue to punish KOBs for it's lack of top-level talent, and kill the club. We need to be able to drop 1s, and field a 2s and 3s side only, as the way things are now helps no-one, not even the teams winning by 80.
.
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Quite right.

I recall previous discussions on the Subbies forums about the haves (cashed up) and have nots (no cash).

Now I think we're in a world of haves (an abundance of players) and have nots (struggling for numbers).

Not trolling but I really question if Subbies rugby will be around in 5 years.
 
barbarian

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
I think the division format needs to change from one based on results to either one based on numbers or geography.

If it's numbers, the idea is simple. At the start of the season you report how many teams you can produce, and are graded accordingly. 5 teams? You're in division 1. 1 team? Div 6.

Or you could go to a geographical comp, which has been talked about for ages. Not quite sure how you work this, but imagine you have a 5 grade structure and smaller clubs just slot in where appropriate- ie KOBs would have two teams, one in 2nd grade and one in 4th grade.

Issue there is fixtures, which become incredibly complex with clubs having differing amounts of teams.

I think the promotion/relegation format is outdated, as the last few years have shown. Instead of telling clubs how many teams they must field, letting them jump up and down based on numbers is probably the way forward.

I do wonder how KOBs would be today if we'd done a Beecroft 3-4 years ago, instead of fighting on and gradually falling through the divisions.
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Heavyd

Heavyd

Nev Cottrell (35)
to repeat myself for the 100th time

DIV 1 4 teams + Colts
DIV 2 3 teams + Colts
DIV 3 3 teams + Colts
DIV 4 2 teams
DIV 5 1 teams

All teams can of course field optional Halligan's team.
 
barbarian

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
That's part of the problem Heavy, and I'd like to see that implemented, but I'd also like to see Subbies allow clubs to have a broad say in what division they play in, too.
 
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