The briefest summary of round 3 from me....

[Elfster]

Just thought I would in an excessively succint manner post a few thoughts of round 3.

1. The Kiwi sides seem to be stronger than the rest. They play at a speed and intensity that other sides can't reach at the moment. They are also very physical.
2. Something seems to be wrong with the Force. Sadly...the game against the Hurricanes may have been a 50/50 proposition going into it, but the end score was a tragedy. That game should have been there for the Force...I would like to say and think that the Force are better than that.
3. I am still up in the air about the form of the SA sides - though the Sharks and Stormers are probably the strongest sides there.
4. The Australian sides don't have the same presence and physicality at the breakdown as the other sides.
5. Against the Cheetahs, though behind on the score board, there was a sense of inevitability about the result at the end: the Brumbies' scrum was dominant and you could just feel that a penalty etc would come.
6. There seems to be a lot of team spirit at the Brumbies.
7. The Cheetahs spent a lot of time at the end "injured", tired or needing to do a shoe lace up. May be nothing, but if one was cynical you could think otherwise. That said they did throw the ball around - I don't think they will be the easy beats of the past.
8. At the end of the Waratah's game I was thinking were they building pressure/ position for a fieldgoal or where they attempting to get a penalty. With the former they went one phase too late, the latter was always going to be a hard ask in those circumstances for the ref to award a penalty against the Highlanders.
9. The Tahs / Highlanders game was played with pace and intensity - like both were kiwi sides. Though they lost I thought the Tahs showed a great deal in that game - they should be a force.
10. The Reds are taking their time to reach great hights in their game. That said they are three from three. The next few weeks should be telling for how their season goes.
11. My tipping this season has been singularly appalling!!!

Some rambling, cliche riddled thoughts from me...and not even any latin to improve it.

 

[Braveheart81]

Psst... this was round 3.

 

[suckerforred]

11. My tipping this season has been singularly appalling!!!
Some rambling, cliche riddled thoughts from me...and not even any latin to improve it.

Not on your own there....

Oh and it was round 3. I know your Brums have only played twice, but some of us have been there fore the full 3 rounds.

 

[matty_k]

Psst... this was round 3.

Fixed

 

[tigerland12]

The kiwi sides have been very dominant for mine. What is even scarier is that the Crusaders and Blues are currently at the bottom of their conference, and they will only get better.

I know it was brought up alot last season, but is it really fair the conference structure? I know as Australians we tend to defend our weaker sides. But if you look of the form off the Highlanders, Chiefs along with the quality of the Blues and Crusaders, I would say they could all beat every Australian side on current form (including the Reds and Waratahs).

 

[mark_s]

Good post Elfster and I agree with most of your points. Only additional observation is that super rugby comp's aren't won in March (otherwise the tahs would have won one already when we won our first 4 games a few years ago). Plenty of teams have started strong and faded away during the season, I think there is a greater risk of this happening this year given the extended super season.

 

[Slim 293]

The kiwi sides have been very dominant for mine. What is even scarier is that the Crusaders and Blues are currently at the bottom of their conference, and they will only get better.

I know it was brought up alot last season, but is it really fair the conference structure? I know as Australians we tend to defend our weaker sides. But if you look of the form off the Highlanders, Chiefs along with the quality of the Blues and Crusaders, I would say they could all beat every Australian side on current form (including the Reds and Waratahs).

I think it's perfectly fair.

It's certainly no more or less fair than the way the Heineken Cup works with its random draw, where theoretically you can have a pool featuring all the top sides in Europe but only 2 of them can go on through to the playoffs.

In the end the best team is going to win.

 

[Hawko]

The kiwi sides have been very dominant for mine. What is even scarier is that the Crusaders and Blues are currently at the bottom of their conference, and they will only get better.

I know it was brought up alot last season, but is it really fair the conference structure? I know as Australians we tend to defend our weaker sides. But if you look of the form off the Highlanders, Chiefs along with the quality of the Blues and Crusaders, I would say they could all beat every Australian side on current form (including the Reds and Waratahs).

The operative word is could. I think the Force "could" win a game this year though right now that would have to be a long shot.

I agree with the sentiment though. Right now, on form displayed so far, only the Waratahs would be competitive against the four best Kiwi sides. The jury is out on the Reds, we'll see how they go in SA but their form so far has not been good. The NZ conference post WC has thrown up a new batch of great talent that you'd be hard pushed to say was matched by anything you've seen in SA and you absolutely couldn't say about the Oz emerging talent.

 

[suckerforred]

I know it was brought up alot last season, but is it really fair the conference structure? ....

But with 15 sides in the comp, with the posibility to expand, a truely 'fair' comp where they all play each other home and away take most of the year. And then you would have to work out how to handle international time where some teams will be striped of most of their tier one players and become uncompetitive. I think structure how it is is not bad.

 

[barbarian]

I think it's perfectly fair.

I disagree. The NZ sides are at a clear disadvantage as their conference is so close and competitive. Which would be OK if all 5 sides were of middling strength, but NZ sides make up 3 of the top 5 sides at the moment in my opinion (Chiefs, Crusaders and Highlanders).

Whilst their is no such thing as a fair system, I can certainly understand why our NZ cousins are complaining. It seems the Force, Brumbies and Rebels will be finishing in the bottom half of the comp, which gives an easier run to the Tahs and Reds. Saturday showed these games won't be a cakewalk, but they should still be winning.

The Saffer conference is similar to ours so far. The Cheetahs and Lions are struggling again, while the Sharks, Bulls and Stormers look good but not brilliant.

I don't know what the solution is though. NZ will always suffer in this format due to their excellent depth and level of talent.

.

 

[JJJ]

I don't think the conference system was ever about "fair" -- it was always about making more money. And derbies apparently make more money. Not much point having a "fair" system if it sends two of the three member unions bankrupt.

 

[Braveheart81]

In the end the best team is going to win.

I'd say this isn't necessarily the case. It's really hard to win if you don't finish in the top 2.

Given the strength of the conferences, you could argue that it is much easier to finish first on the ladder if you play in the weakest conference.

Luck of the draw is also a big determining factor. Whether you play key games home or away has a big influence on the result.

The ideal draw is clearly to play as many weak teams away as possible and hope you get teams like the Crusaders and Highlanders at home. The Reds getting the Crusaders, Bulls and Blues at home last season was a big help.

 

[tigerland12]

I don't think the conference system was ever about "fair" -- it was always about making more money. And derbies apparently make more money. Not much point having a "fair" system if it sends two of the three member unions bankrupt.

Whilst I do agree with what you said, I'm not sure if that's the case when it comes to Australian derbies.

Personally I would be more inclined to go to a game where QLD is playing an NZ side then someone like the Force or Brumbies. It is pretty clear these games are boring as bat shit, I haven't enjoyed an Australian derby yet this season.

Also bigger crowds tend to turn up to games such as QLD vs Blues ect then the other derby games (apart from the NSW derby).

There is obviously not real solution to this, I just think it can be a bit overloading of the local derby's, especially when 70% of the time you know who is going to win.

Just an example: Reds vs Waratahs boring slow game, compared to Highlanders vs Crusaders which is the best game I've seen this season.

 

[Braveheart81]

Also bigger crowds tend to turn up to games such as QLD vs Blues ect then the other derby games (apart from the NSW derby).

There are a lot of Briwis.

 

[Elfster]

Whilst I do agree with what you said, I'm not sure if that's the case when it comes to Australian derbies.

Personally I would be more inclined to go to a game where QLD is playing an NZ side then someone like the Force or Brumbies. It is pretty clear these games are boring as bat shit, I haven't enjoyed an Australian derby yet this season.

Also bigger crowds tend to turn up to games such as QLD vs Blues ect then the other derby games (apart from the NSW derby).

There is obviously not real solution to this, I just think it can be a bit overloading of the local derby's, especially when 70% of the time you know who is going to win.

Just an example: Reds vs Waratahs boring slow game, compared to Highlanders vs Crusaders which is the best game I've seen this season.

That is one of those strange things, the Australian derbies do tend to be be dour, tight, low in skills and boring affairs when compared to other countrie's derbies: a lack of depth, coaching, a fear of losing or some other reason why the games tend to be relatively underwhelming....

 

[Slim 293]

I disagree. The NZ sides are at a clear disadvantage as their conference is so close and competitive. Which would be OK if all 5 sides were of middling strength, but NZ sides make up 3 of the top 5 sides at the moment in my opinion (Chiefs, Crusaders and Highlanders).

Whilst their is no such thing as a fair system, I can certainly understand why our NZ cousins are complaining. It seems the Force, Brumbies and Rebels will be finishing in the bottom half of the comp, which gives an easier run to the Tahs and Reds. Saturday showed these games won't be a cakewalk, but they should still be winning.

The Saffer conference is similar to ours so far. The Cheetahs and Lions are struggling again, while the Sharks, Bulls and Stormers look good but not brilliant.

I don't know what the solution is though. NZ will always suffer in this format due to their excellent depth and level of talent.

.

Theoretically, 3 NZ sides can make the finals...

Certainly, if the Aus and SA conferences are 'weaker' than the NZ teams can take massive points from them... particularly when local derbies seem to mostly give sides few competition points as they're traditionally close matches.

Going back to the Heineken Cup for a moment... you always wind up with a pool of death featuring 3 - 4 teams who probably deserve to make it to the finals over weaker teams from easier pools... shit happens...

I honestly can't see what they have to complain about. If the Aus and SA conferences are so easy then it should be an all NZ final.

If a NZ team doesn't win this year then they should just shut the fuck up...

 

[fatprop]

I think it is a bit early to be bothered about fairness. To me, that is something you bother about in retrospect, not after 3 of 18 rounds.

 

[RedsHappy]

Totally agree fp, and it seems that some of us have even decided who the 'best' teams are after just 3 rounds! Maybe that'll be clearer after 6 rounds, but 3?

 

[Braveheart81]

When the Force win 15 straight games to top the ladder, no one will be calling the Australian conference weak.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

When the Force win 15 straight games to top the ladder, no one will be calling the Australian conference weak.

Where you in my dreams last night??