The dying - perhaps death - of Rugby in Australia.

[grievous]

rugby wont die but 3 things MUST be addressed or as the other 3 sports get richer rugby will become a boutique sport
FTA TV
3rd tier
re vamp schools comp in heartlands

 

[Hugh Jarse]

If remaining boutique or becoming boutique means that we don't have to inject Animal medications into our players to try and get that competitive edge, then I'm happy to stay boutique domestically, and relevant internationally. Don't get me started on the other nocturnal activities that the mungos get up to.

A Wobs jumper is a free ticket to a decent conversation, hospitality and a welcome drink nearly anywhere in the world.

Not many places recognise the Kangaroos Jumper.

Remind me what the Australian National AFL Representative Jumper looks like. I seem to have forgotten.
Wear a Carlton, Collingwood or Swans Jumper overseas, and you will only be talked to by expat or pissed KonTiki Aussie tourists on their OE. No one else cares.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

very true re 9
Strzacker really has to be the long term hope post Genia at this point in time
lucas was utterly unconvincing when he was on.
white has good potential but is about the same age as genia. ditto phipps.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

and yes ,betham is a ways away from wobs, but he is a quality prospect.
2 years time, he is 26 and hitting his top form.

 

[Elfster]

It will help if the ARU doesn't get itself involved in things like this.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...edefines-waterhouses-role-20130327-2gtis.html


Though there are some that say any publicity is good publicity, we don't want to see Rugby sell its soul for a few dollars like this.

And the thing I can't explain is how League got itself into such a compromising position.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

good old league. always dependable.
its continuing existence will always fascinate me.
speaking of dying/death - I would be imagining that NRL is very worried about the superb performance and attendances of WSW

 

[Mullos]

I was chatting with an influential employee of an Australian team and he is adamant for things to improve the scrums need to be sorted (everyone knows that) and that there are two too many players on the field.

 

[Slim 293]

I was chatting with an influential employee of an Australian team and he is adamant for things to improve the scrums need to be sorted (everyone knows that) and that there are two too many players on the field.

Influential, but dumb?

 

[Mullos]

Influential, but dumb?

He was in intergral in both a Super Rugby and RWC victory so I dare say he has achieved more in rugby than both you and I. Won't say more than that as it will give up his identity.

 

[Badger]

^ So it's an ex-Brumby player/official.

If two players are removed, wouldn't it be very similar to another game?

 

[Richo]

Force teams to kick after six tackles. It'll be the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Penguin]

Scrums have been looking pretty good this year since they got rid of the ridiculous pause command. I'm not even going to touch the idiotic call for two less players :-l
Just because someone has "achieved" more than most doesn't make them an expert or correct.

 

[Man on the hill]

snip Don't get me started on the other nocturnal activities that the mungos get up to.

snip .

No doubt written before Mr Beale had another night on the juice...

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Do leopards change their spots?

The years of careful Kulturing up at Joeys don't seem to completed the mungoectomy for Gilbert. Silk purse, Sow's ear perhaps.

As abhorrent as they are, and as troubled as he is with his various demons, the ill discipline and "issues" from Mr Beale are still significantly less than the usual headline grabbing nocturnal activities reported from mungo land.

It's for another thread, but the transition from School to superstar professional athlete in most codes is not handled particularly well in many cases.

 

[p.Tah]

I thought this was an interesting article on the parallels between the demise of the NSW Labour Party and the fracturing of Rugby League in its Heartland of Western Sydney.

Although Western Sydney is not a Rugby Union heartland, the following quote is quite pertinent for Rugby, particularily NSW Rugby:

Meanwhile, rugby league was also ignoring its heartland. Management in faraway Moore Park was blind to the need for reinvestment in the four clubs that call the region home, and the hundreds of thousands of juniors playing footy in parks from Castle Hill to Campbelltown.

Just as the ALP's internal crises blinded it to the winds of change, the NRL's post-Super League haze caused it to ignore the threat from a demographic shift. The AFL rode into town with well-funded schools programs and big dollars to partner councils sick of league ignoring their pleas for money for playing fields.

Labor's slight to the region was reflected in the NRL's decision to build its HQ in Paddington.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...broken-heartland/story-e6frezz0-1226622919431

To state the bleeding obvious, Rugby cannot neglect it's heartlands (from a Sydney centric perspective the North and East of Sydney), but there is a great opportunity for rugby in Western Sydney. Although we don't have the AFL "war chest' we can learn from the AFL and concentrate on specifc areas/schools and we can learn from Rugby League in what not to do. It could take a while, but we could do it one suburb at a time.

 

[Bardon]

I thought this was an interesting article on the parallels between the demise of the NSW Labour Party and the fracturing of Rugby League in its Heartland of Western Sydney.

Although Western Sydney is not a Rugby Union heartland, the following quote is quite pertinent for Rugby, particularily NSW Rugby:



http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...broken-heartland/story-e6frezz0-1226622919431

To state the bleeding obvious, Rugby cannot neglect it's heartlands (from a Sydney centric perspective the North and East of Sydney), but there is a great opportunity for rugby in Western Sydney. Although we don't have the AFL "war chest' we can learn from the AFL and concentrate on specifc areas/schools and we can learn from Rugby League in what not to do. It could take a while, but we could do it one suburb at a time.

Completely agree one of the biggest challenges facing Rugby, not only in Australia but globally, is how to correctly manage growth in the game. Rugby is currently at a crossroads and needs smart guys with vision in development roles. Globally Rugby is still a small sport when compared to behemoths like soccer and it should learn from the many mistakes made in soccer and other major global club based sports before it grows any bigger.

The time to plan for that growth is now, or more correctly it was 5-10 years ago, but still with the right people and the right plan it's not too late. Rugby will grow as a global sport I have no doubts about that. There are so many untapped markets for it to move into over the coming years that it may well experience a boom over the next 10 years.

One of the big drivers for that will be the Olympics which will massively raise the profile of 7s but also attract many more people to 15s if the IRB and various unions are properly prepared to exploit the sports moment in the spot light. It's the most exciting sport to become an Olympic event in a long time. The format is great for TV and it will get a lot of coverage due to the fact that it's the kind of event people will watch no matter who's playing. Also unlike many other Olympic events there are fewer barriers to people entering the sport as participants. i.e. A greater percentage of people watching will think "I'd like to give that a go."

My worry is that the IRB and the various unions won't be properly prepared to take advantage of this one off boost in popularity. Instead of making it easy for people to make the connection between 7s and 15s many people may still be ignorant of the existence of the 15s game. This would result in an increased profile for 7s versus 15s with the two seen as different games rather than 2 formats of the same game.

Already there are funding shifts from 15s to 7s in the women's game. With many of the elite England women's team rested for this years 6Ns to focus on the 7s WC with an aim to build towards the 2016 Olympics. This is a worrying trend as Rugby in all formats is a very attractive sport to tap into a huge female market both in terms of participation and support. There was even talk of splitting the women's 6Ns into a 2 tier system with Wales, Scotland and Italy in a lower division. This was narrowly avoided as critics said it would be the death of the elite women's 15s game in the NH. This is depressing when we should be encouraging more women to be involved in all areas of the game. IMHO the various unions could do worse than appoint some qualified women to high level positions.

In countries where the 15s isn't as established as in the Tier 1 nations it may be that funding is also shifted from the men's game. This would then create pressure on the existing super powers of Rugby in shift funding so as not to be embarrassed at the Olympics. Rugby is in danger of their being a split between 7s and 15s with potentially a breakaway organization for the 7s format at some point in the next 10-15 years.

On top of that is the point you raise about the rugby heartlands. Local rugby clubs all over the world are the heartbeat of the sport. They needs to be properly looked after by the Unions. No one wants to see a situation like soccer where all the money concentrates at the top of the game while clubs over 100 years old go to the wall for lack of funding. However this is exactly what will happen unless the IRB and Unions have solid plans for how to handle the growth of the game.

As I said there are huge markets out there for the sport and as it grows TV contracts and sponsorships will get bigger and bigger, especially after the sport cracks the U.S. and Asia. The unions should be thinking now about what to do at that point. I'm a big advocate of Unions setting aside a portion of any large TV or sponsorship deals to be earmarked for grassroots development and support. If this doesn't happen then like many other larger sports the bulk of the money in the sport will be hoovered up by high profile players, their agents and clubs.

As time passes elite clubs and franchises will become more and more powerful to the detriment of unions and smaller clubs. There is a shift at the elite level in the NH to a soccer style model where there is a rich benefactor who has no loyalty to anything other than the success of their club. As the sport becomes bigger in other parts of the world this will attract more benefactors and a there will be a corresponding reduction in Union funded clubs/provinces/franchises as these pass into private ownership. This shift in ownership will also be accompanied by a shift in power.

I have no doubt that at the elite level the game is not dying and will in fact grow massively on a global scale over the next 20 years or so. This growth will be accompanied by a massive increase in the amount of money in the game. My major concern is where that money goes. With the administration of our game still largely amateur in it's approach (paying someone a lot of money doesn't equal professionalism in my book) I really worry for the future of local rugby clubs the world over. The custodians of our game are an old boys networks who are mired in political infighting and these are the guys that we expect to deal with slick rich benefactors who are used to getting their own way by hook or by crook.

There is a massive opportunity for our game in the coming 10 years or so and what really depresses me is that it is ill-prepared to seize it. Anyway I could go on about this subject all day and as usual once I've started I found it hard to stop but I'll draw a line here and don't blame anyone who thought TLDR.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

League's heartland is now the most hotly contested sporting market in the country.
GWS is having a hard time and i dont think that will change. what league should be worried about is soccer. WSW are killing it in a region rich with immigrants who have an affinity for soccer. WSW are getting better crowds than most league teams do and they have been successful. they will kill it again next year. further, you look at all the young kids in WS and where are they likely to get steered to by their parents? league - easily the most recklessly dangerous game in the country or AFL or soccer? soccer 1st and AFL 2nd (i'm ignoring rugby here)

AFL and soccer have taken the war right to league's heartland and i reckon soccer is winning and AFL is doing as predicted (and they will do better).
people talk about rugby being in trouble, but personally, i reckon league is in a lot of trouble that is just masked at the moment by a big tv deal. they do not offer a product that can compete with either AFL or soccer in their heartland. they can come up with your ideas of how to grow the game but it is a global non-entity despite being professional for how long? btw - a premiership game in china - no one in china would have any idea what league is ....this is 10x more stupid than AFL playing a pre-season game in china which itself was moronic).

i personally think rugby is only having a hard time in australia and that is for two primary reasons - the bad taste from the horribly boring style of play that the english and south africans played (and dominated with) from 2003 - 2007 which, if it had persisted, would've ruined the game and the limited success by the wallabies since 2003.

turn that around and the fair weather NSW sports fans will come out again (same applies to waratahs). if you had the rebels in melbourne playing rugby like the brumbies or the reds, the crowds and membership numbers would be 50% higher or better. rugby is the fastest growing team sport in the states, growing in england and france, growing significantly in spain, russia, italy, georgia (number 1 sport in georgia) and growing throughout southern africa.
Brazil has apparently fully embraced 7s and that is filtering into XVs as well - largely due to the olympics as they want to field a strong team at home. if the game grows in brazil, which doesn't have a contact team sport, that will be huge. That filters into Argentina (where the game is going from strength to strength) and uraguay which still has a great rugby culture and tradition.

end rant.

 

[wamberal]

Just a couple of observations on the last two posts. Firstly, AFL, NRL and soccer have two very important advantages. They are all very simple games that are relatively easy to watch even if you know nothing about the rules. Soccer and NRL both televise extremely well.

Secondly, all three are on FTA (in soccer's case, only internationals at this stage, but I believe the ALeague will be on SBS next season).

Thirdly, both the NRL and the AFL control their own rule books, so they are able to tweak their games whenever they want to. In contrast, our game is complicated - yes, we all love the complications, but what about a viewer who is new to the game?

As for the expansion of rugby into places like Asia, and the Americas, I will believe it if and when it happens. Japan used to tour here and play Test matches, many years ago. South Korea had a very competitive national team, I used to enjoy watching them when I lived in Hong Kong. China was going to be the next big thing in rugby, just as it was going to be the next big thing in just about everything.

Argentina is a bright spot, but they have had a strong national side off and on for many years.

Brazil? I doubt it. Let us wait to see whether or not they can get into the HSBC Sevens circuit first.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

disagree re AFL being simple to understand for a new observer. try explaining the logic of prior opportunity (and how it is judged), holding the ball (which at best seems policed at random), and the 360 rule to someone who is new to the game. i've taken quite a few canadians to games when they've visited and they have all said the same thing - it's very entertaining to watch, but the rules are very weird and a lot of them seem to make no sense or have any basis in reason. the same is said for a good rugby match.
soccer is the easiest game to understand and play and it benefits for that so i agree, but i don't agree with afl - large swathes of the game make absolutely no sense (and i can speak from experience having played it for 4 years).
re NRL televises well - really? i just don't find that at all. afl is also very poor on television compared to real life - you really need to be able to see the entirety of the play as it evolves to grasp what is happening and the skill involved. NRL - you see it on tv for the grown up version of british bulldog that it is. we all loved british bulldog as kids, but you play something else when you grow up.

USA got 20,000 fans to a test in houston last year. canada will get 20-25k to their tests against ireland and USA this summer. canada previously used to get 10k to the equivalent tests.
i can't speak to japan, i dont' know how the game is really tracking there to be honest and same with china (didn't mention either of them in my initial post - didn't mention asia at all actually). don't underestimate the impact of 7s in NA. Canada now has an annual national university championship for 7s that is televised, this has filtered into a proper cross canada rugby competition for universities. I graduated from mcgill in 2006 and rugby wasn't a varsity sport - nor was it at most of the eastern canadian unis. it's now properly varsity (meaning it gets funding from the uni) and there is a competition that is highly contested amongst Queens, UWO, McMaster, Bishops, McGill and U of T on the east coast. Same in the states. college 7s is broadcast on NBC and you can watch college XV as well now. more schools are now offering rugby programs and offering rugby scholarships.

 

[emuarse]

I was chatting with an influential employee of an Australian team and he is adamant for things to improve the scrums need to be sorted (everyone knows that) and that there are two too many players on the field.

Yes - and change the name to Rugby league.