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The Moana Pasifika Franchise

The Moana Pasifika Franchise

  • Gone in 2 years

    Votes: 21 36.2%
  • Very Cool

    Votes: 6 10.3%
  • Why the FUCK does NZRFU have to bankroll this bullshit?

    Votes: 4 6.9%
  • Will get the dregs of The Auckland Blues

    Votes: 12 20.7%
  • may as well just call it "The Southern Kings"

    Votes: 7 12.1%
  • "Players will come back from million $ Toulon contracts to play for free in bumhole Papatoetoe"

    Votes: 12 20.7%
  • This team will kick arse

    Votes: 3 5.2%
  • Gone in 10 years

    Votes: 7 12.1%
  • Least NZ Rugby could do after years of harvesting islands for talent.....

    Votes: 25 43.1%
  • .....Straya not exactly innocent there.....

    Votes: 14 24.1%

  • Total voters
    58

Wilson

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Refer to my earlier post.

Either it reaffirms everyone's beliefs that Moana is another feeder club to NZRU/The All Blacks as Ardie can be picked.

Or, it's a silent way of bending the eligibility rules of All Blacks playing outside of the designated 5 sides. Which should mean we can open super rugby to being a free market and All Blacks play in Aus and Wallabies Play in NZ if picked.
To be clear, I don't agree with this at all (with regard to Ardie's move). I think it's good for the competition, good for Moana and good for the young islander players coming up through their system to have him there with them. Yes it would be better if he shifted to his Samoan eligibility, but I don't think it's realistic to expect one of the best players in the world to take 3 years out from the international game at the prime of his career.

I do agree there is a particularly interesting narrative around All Blacks eligibility here though, as much as it might look like a special case for Ardie, it's also a softer approach then they've ever taken. It seems to me it will only be so long before a Fijian heritage player tries to explore this for the Drua and if the money is there for it other players looking towards Australia. We're along way from open eligibility in Super Rugby, but this is the biggest step towards it we've seen since the Giteau Rule was introduced in Australia.
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Refer to my earlier post.

Either it reaffirms everyone's beliefs that Moana is another feeder club to NZRU/The All Blacks as Ardie can be picked.

Or, it's a silent way of bending the eligibility rules of All Blacks playing outside of the designated 5 sides. Which should mean we can open super rugby to being a free market and All Blacks play in Aus and Wallabies Play in NZ if picked.
So it's what's in it for Aussie? And fair enough mate, as you should as that's your team. As can be seen by the fact you don't appear to be worried that Aussie players can play in France etc and play for Wallabies and not in NZ?
It just kind of shows you can never probably have a strict policy for everything? NZR is like everyone and changes rules as needed. Once when you signed overseas you didn't play for ABs , then there were contracts with a clause in them allowing for players to have super season off etc to get a break or big coin. All countries (RA with Giteua etc) know it's a changing landscape and so work within it.
 
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Ignoto

Greg Davis (50)
So it's what's in it for Aussie? And fair enough mate, as you should as that's your team. As can be seen by the fact you don't appear to be worried that Aussie players can play in France etc and play for Wallabies and not in NZ?
What's in it for Australia?

If NZRU are happy to explore this with Ardie, then they should be open to re-examining this for the broader teams and players.

I and I'm sure many/if not all of us, want a better Super Rugby competition. I believe a free-market approach goes a long way to helping Super Rugby become a better product for a number of reasons.

Australia seemed opened to the idea a couple of years ago, however, NZRU were closed shop about the idea for some silly reasons.

If Ardie playing for Moana means that dial has shifted, then NZRU needs to express this, otherwise, it just seems as NZRU taking over a 6th Super club.
 

Adam84

Rod McCall (65)
They receive WR (World Rugby) (World Rugby) funding right? Wonder how keen WR (World Rugby) (World Rugby) are on funding an NZ super side.

That said - they are kind of a joke at the moment so something needs to give.

That funding agreement was for 3 years covering 2022-2024, be interesting to see whether WR (World Rugby) have extended it.
 

Bullrush

Geoff Shaw (53)
I have LONG been a proponent on the NZRU changing it's policy to allow ABs to be selected from any Super Rugby franchise but this particular case is not really anywhere close to them taking on a 6th side.

Ardie has expressed that he feels that playing for the MP (Moana Pasifika) is the best way can contribute and 'give back' to his heritage and his Samoan ties.

“If you were to ask me four years ago, I would have loved to play for Samoa and put the jersey on,” Savea told Jim Hamilton on Walk the Talk earlier this year.

“But right now, I’m getting older and I think I’d be doing a disservice to the jersey if I was to just go there when I’m older.

“We’ll see, but with the rules of stand-down being three years, it’s just a long time.

For me, I want to give back to Samoa in different ways,” he added.

“It might be going back home and helping out the kids there or doing something like that in my village.

“It might not be representing them on an international stage but just doing something to give back.”


NZRU doesn't really get anything from it. Ardie is a homegrown Aotearoa player and talent so NZRU haven't taken any talent away from Samoa. But a strong, successful MP (Moana Pasifika) is good for Samoa and Tonga.
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Also it seems that Ardies has a sabbatical again in 2026, and Canes weren't keen on it. Well according to their head honcho.
@Adam84 , didn't WR (World Rugby) say the funding for Drua and MP (Moana Pasifika) were for 3 years set up, and said last year it stopped this year? Sure it was always only for first 3 years for both teams?
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Just on whether MP (Moana Pasifika) should or shouldn't be in existence, and whether they are developing supplying players for their countries? MP (Moana Pasifika) last year had 13 players in the Samoan squad at WC and 11 in the Tongan team, so at 24 players in WC squads I would guess they were most successful at producing test players of any super teams?
 
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Tomthumb

Desmond Connor (43)
Surely Moana should play more games in Samoa and Tonga though. This season they played a whopping 1 game in Tonga and none in Samoa
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
From stuff.co.nz way back on 31/08/21:

"Moana Pasifika are permitted to sign three current All Blacks “effectively on secondment” from New Zealand Rugby on top of former All Blacks or Wallabies returning from overseas, New Zealand players association boss Rob Nichol has revealed."

 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Surely Moana should play more games in Samoa and Tonga though. This season they played a whopping 1 game in Tonga and none in Samoa
Think everyone agrees with that Tom, just getting someone to pay costs is the problem?
Was interested to see tv news here tonight, and how excited MP (Moana Pasifika) are in getting Ardie, with the big hope it will lead to more high profile players looking at doing it.Also obviously he a name that kids etc know! I know the whisper is Vaea Fifita is thinking of it. Don't think they will get players from France etc, but if they can pick up a few returning etc, will help.
 

Bullrush

Geoff Shaw (53)
Surely Moana should play more games in Samoa and Tonga though. This season they played a whopping 1 game in Tonga and none in Samoa
They don't have the stadium to do it.

I was talking to someone who is connected in Fiji and I suggested that moving the Super Round away from Melbourne to Fiji would be awesome.

He agreed but said that the ground there simply wouldn't be able to handle that much rugby. I'm sure MP (Moana Pasifika) would love to take more games to Tonga and Samoa but I'm not sure there is the infrasturcture.
 

Tomthumb

Desmond Connor (43)
They don't have the stadium to do it.

I was talking to someone who is connected in Fiji and I suggested that moving the Super Round away from Melbourne to Fiji would be awesome.

He agreed but said that the ground there simply wouldn't be able to handle that much rugby. I'm sure MP (Moana Pasifika) (Moana Pasifika) would love to take more games to Tonga and Samoa but I'm not sure there is the infrasturcture.
They do have the stadium though, otherwise they would never have had any games there

If it’s good enough for Italy to play a game in Samoa, it’s good enough for these super teams
 

zer0

John Thornett (49)
[Moana] Chief executive Pelenato Sakalia said while they want to play more games in front of their home fans in the islands, the reality is such games are expensive to take across the ocean.

"Without a doubt Moana Pasifika is very committed to playing games in the Pacific," he said.

"But there is a cold, hard economic reality to these things. Taking games to the Pacific is really an expensive affair."

Sakalia said although there have been some suggestions for the franchise to re-locate to the islands like rivals Fijian Drua, the reality is the infrastructure on the islands does not support hosting a team base.

He said this means they will continue to be based in Albany here in New Zealand unless and until things change on the islands.

"Unfortunately, both Tonga and Samoa, it's not a criticism, it's just a reality. When you've got a population of 100,000 in Tonga and about 250,000 in Samoa, you don't necessarily have the size and scale to be able to support the specialist support services that you need to have access to, to support a Super Rugby franchise," he said.

Sakalia spoke with RNZ Pacific senior sports journalist Iliesa Tora. Below is the full transcript of the conversation:

IT: You have just returned from Tonga, playing at home there and had played one game in Samoa last year. What is the possibility of having more games in the islands moving forward?

PS
: There was an amazing experience into Tonga. The work by the Tonga government and the Tonga Rugby Union, working Moana Pasifika to host the events was an amazing achievement. There was a lot of work put in by people to get up to a standard for Super Rugby.

All the operational works to get the broadcast. It was just a fantastic event. It was just a shame the weather conditions were what they were on the day. Otherwise, I think there would have been even more people come in, under the torrential rain, but it was a fantastic occasion.

The second part is what is the appetite for having more games in the Pacific. Without a doubt Moana Pasifika is very committed to playing games in the Pacific. But there is a cold, hard economic reality to these things. Taking games to the Pacific is really an expensive affair. A lot of people will say, well if Fiji are able to do it, why can't you do it in Tonga and Samoa?

But when you have a look at what I call the economic disparities between even Fiji and the likes of Tonga, and Samoa, you look at the differences in infrastructure, you know, the economic trades, the economic in-flows in terms of financial assistance that comes into Fiji relative to what comes into Samoa and Tonga, it's really challenging.

But Moana Pasifika will continue to work really closely with SANZAR, with all the partners including the broadcasters, and with the respective home nations, to see how we can come up with a more effective economic model that will enable us to play the games in Samoa and Tonga.

IT: With Moana Pasifika still yet to have a permanent home base, is there any discussions on how that will look moving forward?

PS:
Is there a possibility that Moana Pasifika can be based in the Pacific? I think if you set the aspiration stuff to one side and you look at the practical realities to host a professional Super Rugby franchise, you will see there are challenges that we need to take care off first.

If you just have a look at the health requirements, a big part of a professional Super Rugby franchise is having access to the necessary medical equipment, you know, for both the rehab and medical assessments.

Look at things as simple as MRIs. I don't think a week goes by without having a need to make reference to an MRI. You then got to have access to radiologists, you've then got to have access to your specialist sports physician as well.

Unfortunately, both Tonga and Samoa, it's not a criticism, it's just a reality, when you've got a population of 100,000 in Tonga and about 250,000 in Samoa, you don't necessarily have the size and scale to be able to support the specialist support services that you need to have access to, to support a Super Rugby franchise.

So, the practical realities are the standard is of professionalism is what we need to have to support a team. If you look at the Drua. Fiji has got a population of lose to a million people, which is four times the size of Samoa and 10 times the size of Tonga. And they just have the bare minimum to be able to be competitive as a Super Rugby franchise.

I think for the future, until such time as the infrastructure is there to support a professional team, it's just not feasible to have a franchise based there. That doesn't mean that we don't want to. It's just the practical realities of what's required to have a super team, what's required to support a team.

Therefore, it means for the foreseeable future, where we are based at the moment, that's where we need to be really focused on. But at the same time, we want to take whatever games that we can within reason, that is economically viable, to the home nations of Tonga and Samoa.

 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
They do have the stadium though, otherwise they would never have had any games there

If it’s good enough for Italy to play a game in Samoa, it’s good enough for these super teams
Understand your point Tom, but unfortunately reality kicks in mate, in another thread about Tonga, there is talk of about $100,000 to broadcast game from there. And imagine doing it from Samoa would be similar, so unless like the game played in Tonga etc this season someone is prepared to sponsor some good coin it could well be a struggle to have more games from over there.
I guessing it would be same for any country with population base similar to these. Samoa is in itself made up of 9 islands and even Tonga has population spread over 30 islnds (I think).
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
MP (Moana Pasifika) weren't successful in signing Vaea Fifita, but...

Pat Pellegrini, a first five-eighths with the rising Coventry club in England, has been bought out of his last year of contract with the side to join Moana Pasifika."


The fact they were able to buy him out of his contract suggests at least some WR (World Rugby) and/ or NZR funding is still in place.
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
MP (Moana Pasifika) (Moana Pasifika) weren't successful in signing Vaea Fifita, but...

Pat Pellegrini, a first five-eighths with the rising Coventry club in England, has been bought out of his last year of contract with the side to join Moana Pasifika."


The fact they were able to buy him out of his contract suggests at least some WR (World Rugby) (World Rugby) and/ or NZR funding is still in place.
I think we might find there a few bussiness putting in a few $s WOB. There are a few with a couple of bob that seems have good relationship with Iveman and BeeGee.
 
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