S
spirit of cupertino
Guest
Brian, your schitzoid/oedipal rants belong more properly in an article by Foucault and I myself am arranging counselling on the off chance of finding myself stuck in a stuck lift with only you.
The Transition from Schoolboy Rugby to Colts - Is there a better way?
- Status
Brian, your schitzoid/oedipal rants belong more properly in an article by Foucault and I myself am arranging counselling on the off chance of finding myself stuck in a stuck lift with only you.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
At most if not all colts set-ups there is a range of ages - anything from 17 year olds to 20 year olds. New players are actually welcome.
And I'm not quite sure what the past couple of pages has to do with the 2014 GPS competition.
Maybe you could start a new thread in discussions about players transitioning from school to colts and the problems that the face (or don't face)
.On with the rugby - 2014 GPS that is.
S
spirit of cupertino
Guest
I guess people are genuinely interested in the problems faced by boys wanting to back up for one more year. What a pitty you have such a tin ear. If there wasn't a problem it wouldn't be on here and boys wouldn't be so upset. Is that Zen enough for you? Please find an emoticon representing grace and humility in the face of pragmatism.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
Problems faced by a School leavers paying Colts?
99.999% thrive in that environment.
Maybe the problem is you?
99.999% thrive in that environment.
Maybe the problem is you?
S
spirit of cupertino
Guest
You're missing the point. We are talking about the percent of boys who play on.
Trying very hard to play the ball not the man, but you do not make it very easy. I would commend you to do likewise. Never a good idea to be cute with a moderator.
Don't the boys entertain during trial games or do only AAGPS competition matches count as entertainment? I'm pretty sure that the Scots parents who travelled to Safferland were entertained for more than 10 weeks. Other schools had extensive Pre-AAGPS Season activities. Did these not entertain?
I think boys play rugby for more than the entertainment they give the spectators. That is for the professional level of Rugby, not NSW Department of Education Co-Curricular activities which these games are.
I can see no evidence of any racket or disgrace that some kids at AAGPS schools don't seem to get a personal invitation to play rugby post school from a Shute Shield Clubs. Most Junior Village Rugby clubs are independent associated entities, and have links to a Shute shield club on purely geographic basis. Many Junior Village Clubs are in fact the junior division of an existing NSW Suburban Rugby Union Club (Oatley, Newport etc). While exceptionally talented players (Kellaway, Deegan, Sandell etc) get selected into the Under 20's in their first year out of school, they put in a hell of a lot of work in the gym and on the training field to be able to keep up with a cohort that is a year older and more experienced than them. It is not gifted to them on a plate. Also bear in mind that many of these boys have been playing a year up for the last couple of years of high school rugby.
AAGPS open age rugby is Under 18 age group. This means that 17 year olds are playing against 18 year olds for the last two years of high school. Consequently this years graduates will know many of the older boys in the Colts machines, as they have played with and against them when they were Under 17 in open age rugby at school.
You mention that there should be a "system", without giving any real indication what this system may look like or who or what organisation may be in charge of said system.
All junior village club players details are recorded in the MyRugby database which is "owned" by the ARU, and can be accessed either directly or through the SJRU Buddha system. Are you suggesting that there is a conspiracy by SJRU and the village clubs to penalise the AAGPS boys for "leaving their competition" by preventing the Shute Shield Clubs and Subbies Clubs from sending out individualised and targeted emails to kids resident in their traditional recruiting "footprint"? Perhaps the racket is that there is no central registration database of Schoolboy players. This would certainly help the ARU to coordinate an accurate annual rugby player participation figure as opposed to the rather rubbery figures that are usually produced. Are the AAGPS players being specifically ignored by the Colts recruiting machines, or does the disgraceful racket extend to ISA and CAS players as well? Many of these are also "lost" to the Junior Village Club system around U15/U16's.
Where did U21 side suddenly come from? Subbies Colts is Under 21's, while Shute shield is Under 20's. It is an exception that a player does more than 2 years in the Shute Shield Colts system. Talented players may make it to Colts 1 in their first year out from school, fairly good players make it to Colts 2, with the masses of "normal" kids playing a mix of Colts 3 and bench for Colts 2 in their first year. Second year out of school the majority are regular Colts 2 and bench for Colts 1, with the above average players being regular Colts 1 players. I fail to see how these kids in their second year out of school will suddenly turn their back on their former team mates from two years prior.
The Colts Coaches have a policy of selecting and playing the best team of players that they week by week. It is up to them to manage any disharmony in a team that a rockstar being parachuted in may cause. Typically the Parachutist either proves their worth to the team by scoring tries, putting players through gaps, winning breakdown turnovers, dominating lineouts, or whatever they are supposed to do for the team. If they fail to produce the goods, then it is back to second grade, with the status quo restored. Where is the problem there?
Perhaps you are talking about a 18 1/2 year old boy going into a Div 1 Subbies Colts team, where some of the kids may be 21 years old, and the club may only have one colts team for our 18 1/2 year old school leaver to join, and our school leaver is not skilled enough, fit enough or strong enough to displace a 21 year old from their position in the Colts squad. The policy here is two fold: either get better and displace the older player, or go to another club that has openings for players more suited to the school leavers skills and abilities.
I fail to see how a simple reminder to stay on the topic of the thread is evidence of a lack of desire to grow the game. You clearly do not read all that widely in G&GR if you have formulated the view that I have no desire to see the game grow.
You have been around these threads for a while and probably have acquired the rights to start a thread. If you feel so strongly about the issue, have you considered starting a thread in Club Rugby, Rugby Discussion or even Schoolboys Rugby, where you can have full frank and fearless dialogue on the disgrace that is the post school recruiting racket as practiced by Colts Directors with Junior Village Club assistance against AAGPS players. In fact, don't bother, I've already done it.
I used "Nearly all" and "would" because believe it or not some clubs, not many, have their books full already, and with only 3 grades of colts, a club can really only manage to provide an effective rugby experience to about 70 kids.
One of the most frequent reasons quoted why kids play rugby and where is because they want to play with their mates. On that basis, I used the term "gang" to indicate that a group of kids who were looking for a club where they could all play together. In my experience very few clubs turn either individuals or small or large groups of kids away. If their books are "full" or the kid is just not good enough to get regular game time at the club, then most clubs (Ted S, note that I do not use the definite term "all") will try to assist the player to find a club that may be able to use their talents "Where do you live?", "Where do your mates play?" "Have you got any mates at other clubs?", "Have you considered Subbies rugby?", "What about <insert club name>? I know they are looking for players, you should give this number a call <insert number of coach/manager at local club>".
I am not sure precisely what you are looking for. Perhaps you could propose your alternate system so we can all better understand what the issues really are and what should be done to redress them.
Don't the boys entertain during trial games or do only AAGPS competition matches count as entertainment? I'm pretty sure that the Scots parents who travelled to Safferland were entertained for more than 10 weeks. Other schools had extensive Pre-AAGPS Season activities. Did these not entertain?
I think boys play rugby for more than the entertainment they give the spectators. That is for the professional level of Rugby, not NSW Department of Education Co-Curricular activities which these games are.
The $200 levy on junior clubs was to cover fiscal shortfalls at the ARU. In NSW, no club was charged as NSW RU decided that they would cover the cost for the Village clubs. Are you suggesting that NFJ should have passed that levy on to the junior clubs to pay, and used that money on an advertising campaign to get graduating AAGPS players into the Shute Shield (and Subbies) Colts system instead?
I can see no evidence of any racket or disgrace that some kids at AAGPS schools don't seem to get a personal invitation to play rugby post school from a Shute Shield Clubs. Most Junior Village Rugby clubs are independent associated entities, and have links to a Shute shield club on purely geographic basis. Many Junior Village Clubs are in fact the junior division of an existing NSW Suburban Rugby Union Club (Oatley, Newport etc). While exceptionally talented players (Kellaway, Deegan, Sandell etc) get selected into the Under 20's in their first year out of school, they put in a hell of a lot of work in the gym and on the training field to be able to keep up with a cohort that is a year older and more experienced than them. It is not gifted to them on a plate. Also bear in mind that many of these boys have been playing a year up for the last couple of years of high school rugby.
AAGPS open age rugby is Under 18 age group. This means that 17 year olds are playing against 18 year olds for the last two years of high school. Consequently this years graduates will know many of the older boys in the Colts machines, as they have played with and against them when they were Under 17 in open age rugby at school.
You mention that there should be a "system", without giving any real indication what this system may look like or who or what organisation may be in charge of said system.
All junior village club players details are recorded in the MyRugby database which is "owned" by the ARU, and can be accessed either directly or through the SJRU Buddha system. Are you suggesting that there is a conspiracy by SJRU and the village clubs to penalise the AAGPS boys for "leaving their competition" by preventing the Shute Shield Clubs and Subbies Clubs from sending out individualised and targeted emails to kids resident in their traditional recruiting "footprint"? Perhaps the racket is that there is no central registration database of Schoolboy players. This would certainly help the ARU to coordinate an accurate annual rugby player participation figure as opposed to the rather rubbery figures that are usually produced. Are the AAGPS players being specifically ignored by the Colts recruiting machines, or does the disgraceful racket extend to ISA and CAS players as well? Many of these are also "lost" to the Junior Village Club system around U15/U16's.
Where did U21 side suddenly come from? Subbies Colts is Under 21's, while Shute shield is Under 20's. It is an exception that a player does more than 2 years in the Shute Shield Colts system. Talented players may make it to Colts 1 in their first year out from school, fairly good players make it to Colts 2, with the masses of "normal" kids playing a mix of Colts 3 and bench for Colts 2 in their first year. Second year out of school the majority are regular Colts 2 and bench for Colts 1, with the above average players being regular Colts 1 players. I fail to see how these kids in their second year out of school will suddenly turn their back on their former team mates from two years prior.
The Colts Coaches have a policy of selecting and playing the best team of players that they week by week. It is up to them to manage any disharmony in a team that a rockstar being parachuted in may cause. Typically the Parachutist either proves their worth to the team by scoring tries, putting players through gaps, winning breakdown turnovers, dominating lineouts, or whatever they are supposed to do for the team. If they fail to produce the goods, then it is back to second grade, with the status quo restored. Where is the problem there?
Perhaps you are talking about a 18 1/2 year old boy going into a Div 1 Subbies Colts team, where some of the kids may be 21 years old, and the club may only have one colts team for our 18 1/2 year old school leaver to join, and our school leaver is not skilled enough, fit enough or strong enough to displace a 21 year old from their position in the Colts squad. The policy here is two fold: either get better and displace the older player, or go to another club that has openings for players more suited to the school leavers skills and abilities.
I fail to see how a simple reminder to stay on the topic of the thread is evidence of a lack of desire to grow the game. You clearly do not read all that widely in G&GR if you have formulated the view that I have no desire to see the game grow.
You have been around these threads for a while and probably have acquired the rights to start a thread. If you feel so strongly about the issue, have you considered starting a thread in Club Rugby, Rugby Discussion or even Schoolboys Rugby, where you can have full frank and fearless dialogue on the disgrace that is the post school recruiting racket as practiced by Colts Directors with Junior Village Club assistance against AAGPS players. In fact, don't bother, I've already done it.
I used "Nearly all" and "would" because believe it or not some clubs, not many, have their books full already, and with only 3 grades of colts, a club can really only manage to provide an effective rugby experience to about 70 kids.
One of the most frequent reasons quoted why kids play rugby and where is because they want to play with their mates. On that basis, I used the term "gang" to indicate that a group of kids who were looking for a club where they could all play together. In my experience very few clubs turn either individuals or small or large groups of kids away. If their books are "full" or the kid is just not good enough to get regular game time at the club, then most clubs (Ted S, note that I do not use the definite term "all") will try to assist the player to find a club that may be able to use their talents "Where do you live?", "Where do your mates play?" "Have you got any mates at other clubs?", "Have you considered Subbies rugby?", "What about <insert club name>? I know they are looking for players, you should give this number a call <insert number of coach/manager at local club>".
I am not sure precisely what you are looking for. Perhaps you could propose your alternate system so we can all better understand what the issues really are and what should be done to redress them.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Just give us a hint: who is upset? Where was it they wanted to be invited to play?
Or is it the fact that colts is a whole new order with its own pecking orders into which you have to fit?
I just dint see what the issue is: ring the rugby director at your nearest Shute shield club and he'll come and speak to the kid(s) is my bet. They are desperate for kids if only to run an eye over them because they know how fickle junior selections are.
I have never heard of anyone being turned away without being looked at, even at buildcorp.
How did Luke burgess get a game?
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
Actually,every club to my knowledge has a practice of picking the best XV every week,regardless of whether they are new to the club or not.
Many of them require newcomers to earn their stripes in 3's and then 2's to prove their worth.
If someone is too precious for that,then maybe Rugby is not their go.
Good luck to them in the brave new world in the workforce.
No one is going to invite them into a new job,and make sure everyone rolls out the red carpet to ensure they are the centre of attention from their first day.
S
spirit of cupertino
Guest
I fail to see why asking for a simple invite to all GPS players to stay in the game and list the phone numbers of all these eager colts clubs has caused such grief. It's just being a little pro-active and rugby will benefit.
With all the guessing done here does anyone actually know the percentage of boys backing up?
As you probably know, there are plans for GPS and its sister associations to take a much greater role in junior rugby. Without a cleaner handback to the clubs at colts level this would not be wise.
With all the guessing done here does anyone actually know the percentage of boys backing up?
As you probably know, there are plans for GPS and its sister associations to take a much greater role in junior rugby. Without a cleaner handback to the clubs at colts level this would not be wise.
S
spirit of cupertino
Guest
Sorry, not my experience.
S
spirit of cupertino
Guest
Wrong question. You show me any club policy that forces the club to be proactive and attract as many players as possible back from its juniors and give them a game.
S
spirit of cupertino
Guest
Thank you for your detailed post. If only I could get you to see the problem you would be a fantastic advocate for some changes for the better.
1. Do I think the $200 should be spent on recruiting? Most def. Espec. since there is a database close at hand.
2.Is it enough that there are coaches to select the best team? No, we need a way bringing back young players.
3.Is Kellaway et al relevant to this discussion. No, not at all.
4. Did I realize that some colts clubs already have their books full? Thank you for this frank admission.
5. Would a coach at a full club really ring around to get someone a job? Only in a perfect world. Sorry.
6. Proposed system: A special personalised invite should be made to all boys on all databases to regroup and play on. They will be welcomed at a sausage sizzle put on to recruit them. They will be told of a great new policy of getting game time, even if it is in a reserves side. They will be selected for some trial games...
Thank you for your understanding.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
The problem is now apparent.
In my day they'd put on a good old fashioned piss up with no strings attached.
I have heard it said this is still done.
If kids need an invitation Im betting theyre not going to like club rugby much, frankly.
S
spirit of cupertino
Guest
Hearsay and innuendo not a substitute for policy. Please try again.
Shute Shield competition is about winning, not socialising. NSW Suburban Rugby is the Social level of Rugby, and by all accounts some of the Divisions of that are also focused on winning more than having a fun time. Shute Shield Colts is limited to 3 Grades. While there have been 4 and at times 5 Grades of Colts at times in the past, the majority of the Clubs voted for a 3 level Colts competition.
Who has full "books"?
A summary of the players sheets from this years Shute Shield Competition reveals the following numbers of players used by Clubs, and by each team in that club, bearing in mind that while Player X is counted once for the club, he could be counted two or three times in the team totals if he has played (even off the bench) in more than one grade of Colts throughout the season. It is very rare than a player will solely play in one grade of Colts footy for the entire season:
Parramatta: 92 Players used, (56 Colts 1, 67 Colts 2, 64 Colts3)
Manly: 92 Players used, (47 Colts 1, 53 Colts 2, 71 Colts3)
Randwick: 91 Players used, (43 Colts 1, 57 Colts 2, 52 Colts3)
Warringah: 90 Players used, (53 Colts 1, 61 Colts 2, 70 Colts3)
Sydney University: 90 Players used, (48 Colts 1, 66 Colts 2, 49 Colts3)
Eastern Suburbs: 88 Players used, (37 Colts 1, 64 Colts 2, 54 Colts3)
Eastwood: 85 Players used, (50 Colts 1, 59 Colts 2, 62 Colts3)
Southern Districts: 85 Players used, (47 Colts 1, 58 Colts 2, 61 Colts3)
West Harbour: 84 Players used, (45 Colts 1, 57 Colts 2, 64 Colts3)
Penrith: 74 Players used, (60 Colts 1, 63 Colts 2)
Northern Suburbs: 65 Players used, (44 Colts 1, 50 Colts 2, 46 Colts3)
Gordon: 57 Players used, (38 Colts 1, 46 Colts 2)
All up, that is just shy of 1000 players across effectively two age groups (U19 and U20). Basically Colts need an annual injection of around 500 players to sustain the 3 team format. About 10% of those 500 kids will be the NSW I, NSW II and Combined States boys that attend National Schoolboys Championships. The Clubs will crawl over themselves to land these lads on their roster, and by the tone of previous posts, the issue is not how the Clubs are neglecting these lads.
Perhaps there is concern that some of these RockStars are registering with Shute Shield clubs other than the one that was associated with the Junior Village Club they played with in the Under 13's. Gordon has serious problems here. They are massive numbers playing Village Club footy with Junior Clubs in and around Chatswood, but they have struggled to attract Colts recently. Things are on the up in Highlander land and by all accounts the current Committee are taking positive steps to improve their player numbers.
Where do the 450 (90%) other players come from that Colts annually need? For a start lets assume that AAGPS 1st XV's each provide 20 kids to Colts plus 10 from Grammar and High (approx 130 players). CAS do similar from their 6 member schools (120 players). ISA big schools provide 20 each, not so big schools provide 10 each, and Div II schools provide 5 each (approx 100 Players). There is another 50 kids from CHS I and II, most of whom are already playing Colts rugby, and the CCC association team could provide 10 kids. There is 410 players accounted for, before getting into AAGPS 2nd XV numbers.
By the sheer weight of mathematics, and ignoring the old chestnut of Player X in the 2nd XV is better than Player Y in the 1st XV at School C, it is going to be hard for a kid (but not impossible) from 2nd XV to break into Colts. Very difficult if the boy does a shoulder or knee or the like during pre-season and misses out on the trial games before the season proper, particularly if they were 2nd XV or lower, or from a School that is perceived to have a weak rugby programme. They may miss their chance to show that cream does rise to the top.
That is the cold hard reality of life in 2014 Colts.
There are about 20000 kids playing Junior Rugby in the Sydney JRU competition. The numbers in the older age groups get a bit rubbery as kids disappear into the Private Schools system. In round (very gross) terms that suggests that there are about 2000 kids in each age cohort that are previously "known" to the Junior Village Clubs, yet Colts can only accommodate 500 of them. While a % of the 1500 will not be interested in playing rugby once they leave school due to work, study, other sporting and recreational interests, travel, gap years, etc, the others have NSW Suburban Rugby Colts programmes to keep themselves in the sport.
There are 6 Divisions of Rugby available for the 1500 former SJRU players, who are "surplus" to Shute Shield Club requirements, to participate in.
1. I reckon that most Shute Shield Club committees know what they are doing and are pretty good at it in terms of their recruiting strategies. When they fail to meet their objectives for player numbers, those responsible are usually removed from the Committee and replaced by others eg Gordon. I agree that there should be a concerted effort each year to target the 1500 + former juniors into NSW Suburban Rugby Clubs Colts programmes. These Clubs run on the proverbial, and would most likely welcome some recruiting assistance from those experienced in such matters. Don't ARU/NSW RU have development officers and interns that could assist this.
2. Colts Coaches are there to help their players to win games. They will select the players they believe are best able to achieve that goal. If they do well, they are invited to coach again the following year, or get promoted to higher levels of coaching within the club. If they don't achieve success, they get demoted, not promoted, or are not invited back to coach.
3. A point was raised that 18 year olds would not fit in to established 21 year old groups. I agree that not all may but if the kid is good enough they will and the 21 year olds won't mind. Recent rockstars like Kellaway prove that fact, and in terms of the point initially raised, it is relevant to use them in rebuttal.
4. See figures above.
5. I didn't say job. I said team. I would do so, and have done so previously. Many Coaches I know would do similar. You have obviously had some bad experiences with some Coaches. There are some out there like that, and I'm sorry you have been on the receiving end of them.
6. There is merit in what you propose but not for the 12 Shute Shield clubs. The Rugby Pathway is poorly paved, lit and signposted with too many masonic entry and exit points many of which are controlled by groups and individuals with self serving vested interests.
There is a degree of clarity in the pathway for the rockstars as the Clipboards clamber over themselves to bask in the reflected glory of the chosen few. For the rest of the rugby pyramid, it is a tough gig navigating along the Pathway. We don't just need players, we also need more and better skilled coaches, referees, administrators and grounds.
We need more effort to be put into articulating the pathway to "averageness", because the reality is that is where the vast majority of us end up. Those in charge of the "averageness" destinations on the pathway need assistance in building, maintaining, lighting and signposting their off ramps. There is no shame in being average.
Having said all that, if the kid wants to play footy, then they must take some responsibility for getting off their chuff and doing a bit of research themselves instead of waiting for a personalised invitation. The NSW Suburban Rugby Union Web site is rather user friendly, and easy to find.
There are 55 NSW Suburban Rugby Clubs across Sydney for the "average" players to go to in order to enjoy a game of rugby at the level they are prepared to commit to.
More info on Div 1: http://www.rugby.net.au/page/Division-One-x-691-132-586.html
More info on Div 2: http://www.rugby.net.au/page/Division-Two-x-694-132-587.html
More info on Div 3: http://www.rugby.net.au/page/Division-Three-x-695-132-596.html
More info on Div 4: http://www.rugby.net.au/page/Division-Four-x-6654-132-14495.html
More info on Div 5: http://www.rugby.net.au/page/Division-Five-x-706-132-597.html
More info on Div 6: http://www.rugby.net.au/page/Division-Six-x-707-132-598.html
More info on Radford Cup Colts: http://www.rugby.net.au/page/Radford-Cup-Colts-x-696-132-599.html
Not much info on Halligan Cup:http://www.rugby.net.au/page/Halligan-Cup-x-716-132-600.html
Who has full "books"?
A summary of the players sheets from this years Shute Shield Competition reveals the following numbers of players used by Clubs, and by each team in that club, bearing in mind that while Player X is counted once for the club, he could be counted two or three times in the team totals if he has played (even off the bench) in more than one grade of Colts throughout the season. It is very rare than a player will solely play in one grade of Colts footy for the entire season:
Parramatta: 92 Players used, (56 Colts 1, 67 Colts 2, 64 Colts3)
Manly: 92 Players used, (47 Colts 1, 53 Colts 2, 71 Colts3)
Randwick: 91 Players used, (43 Colts 1, 57 Colts 2, 52 Colts3)
Warringah: 90 Players used, (53 Colts 1, 61 Colts 2, 70 Colts3)
Sydney University: 90 Players used, (48 Colts 1, 66 Colts 2, 49 Colts3)
Eastern Suburbs: 88 Players used, (37 Colts 1, 64 Colts 2, 54 Colts3)
Eastwood: 85 Players used, (50 Colts 1, 59 Colts 2, 62 Colts3)
Southern Districts: 85 Players used, (47 Colts 1, 58 Colts 2, 61 Colts3)
West Harbour: 84 Players used, (45 Colts 1, 57 Colts 2, 64 Colts3)
Penrith: 74 Players used, (60 Colts 1, 63 Colts 2)
Northern Suburbs: 65 Players used, (44 Colts 1, 50 Colts 2, 46 Colts3)
Gordon: 57 Players used, (38 Colts 1, 46 Colts 2)
All up, that is just shy of 1000 players across effectively two age groups (U19 and U20). Basically Colts need an annual injection of around 500 players to sustain the 3 team format. About 10% of those 500 kids will be the NSW I, NSW II and Combined States boys that attend National Schoolboys Championships. The Clubs will crawl over themselves to land these lads on their roster, and by the tone of previous posts, the issue is not how the Clubs are neglecting these lads.
Perhaps there is concern that some of these RockStars are registering with Shute Shield clubs other than the one that was associated with the Junior Village Club they played with in the Under 13's. Gordon has serious problems here. They are massive numbers playing Village Club footy with Junior Clubs in and around Chatswood, but they have struggled to attract Colts recently. Things are on the up in Highlander land and by all accounts the current Committee are taking positive steps to improve their player numbers.
Where do the 450 (90%) other players come from that Colts annually need? For a start lets assume that AAGPS 1st XV's each provide 20 kids to Colts plus 10 from Grammar and High (approx 130 players). CAS do similar from their 6 member schools (120 players). ISA big schools provide 20 each, not so big schools provide 10 each, and Div II schools provide 5 each (approx 100 Players). There is another 50 kids from CHS I and II, most of whom are already playing Colts rugby, and the CCC association team could provide 10 kids. There is 410 players accounted for, before getting into AAGPS 2nd XV numbers.
By the sheer weight of mathematics, and ignoring the old chestnut of Player X in the 2nd XV is better than Player Y in the 1st XV at School C, it is going to be hard for a kid (but not impossible) from 2nd XV to break into Colts. Very difficult if the boy does a shoulder or knee or the like during pre-season and misses out on the trial games before the season proper, particularly if they were 2nd XV or lower, or from a School that is perceived to have a weak rugby programme. They may miss their chance to show that cream does rise to the top.
That is the cold hard reality of life in 2014 Colts.
There are about 20000 kids playing Junior Rugby in the Sydney JRU competition. The numbers in the older age groups get a bit rubbery as kids disappear into the Private Schools system. In round (very gross) terms that suggests that there are about 2000 kids in each age cohort that are previously "known" to the Junior Village Clubs, yet Colts can only accommodate 500 of them. While a % of the 1500 will not be interested in playing rugby once they leave school due to work, study, other sporting and recreational interests, travel, gap years, etc, the others have NSW Suburban Rugby Colts programmes to keep themselves in the sport.
There are 6 Divisions of Rugby available for the 1500 former SJRU players, who are "surplus" to Shute Shield Club requirements, to participate in.
1. I reckon that most Shute Shield Club committees know what they are doing and are pretty good at it in terms of their recruiting strategies. When they fail to meet their objectives for player numbers, those responsible are usually removed from the Committee and replaced by others eg Gordon. I agree that there should be a concerted effort each year to target the 1500 + former juniors into NSW Suburban Rugby Clubs Colts programmes. These Clubs run on the proverbial, and would most likely welcome some recruiting assistance from those experienced in such matters. Don't ARU/NSW RU have development officers and interns that could assist this.
2. Colts Coaches are there to help their players to win games. They will select the players they believe are best able to achieve that goal. If they do well, they are invited to coach again the following year, or get promoted to higher levels of coaching within the club. If they don't achieve success, they get demoted, not promoted, or are not invited back to coach.
3. A point was raised that 18 year olds would not fit in to established 21 year old groups. I agree that not all may but if the kid is good enough they will and the 21 year olds won't mind. Recent rockstars like Kellaway prove that fact, and in terms of the point initially raised, it is relevant to use them in rebuttal.
4. See figures above.
5. I didn't say job. I said team. I would do so, and have done so previously. Many Coaches I know would do similar. You have obviously had some bad experiences with some Coaches. There are some out there like that, and I'm sorry you have been on the receiving end of them.
6. There is merit in what you propose but not for the 12 Shute Shield clubs. The Rugby Pathway is poorly paved, lit and signposted with too many masonic entry and exit points many of which are controlled by groups and individuals with self serving vested interests.
There is a degree of clarity in the pathway for the rockstars as the Clipboards clamber over themselves to bask in the reflected glory of the chosen few. For the rest of the rugby pyramid, it is a tough gig navigating along the Pathway. We don't just need players, we also need more and better skilled coaches, referees, administrators and grounds.
We need more effort to be put into articulating the pathway to "averageness", because the reality is that is where the vast majority of us end up. Those in charge of the "averageness" destinations on the pathway need assistance in building, maintaining, lighting and signposting their off ramps. There is no shame in being average.
Having said all that, if the kid wants to play footy, then they must take some responsibility for getting off their chuff and doing a bit of research themselves instead of waiting for a personalised invitation. The NSW Suburban Rugby Union Web site is rather user friendly, and easy to find.
There are 55 NSW Suburban Rugby Clubs across Sydney for the "average" players to go to in order to enjoy a game of rugby at the level they are prepared to commit to.
More info on Div 1: http://www.rugby.net.au/page/Division-One-x-691-132-586.html
More info on Div 2: http://www.rugby.net.au/page/Division-Two-x-694-132-587.html
More info on Div 3: http://www.rugby.net.au/page/Division-Three-x-695-132-596.html
More info on Div 4: http://www.rugby.net.au/page/Division-Four-x-6654-132-14495.html
More info on Div 5: http://www.rugby.net.au/page/Division-Five-x-706-132-597.html
More info on Div 6: http://www.rugby.net.au/page/Division-Six-x-707-132-598.html
More info on Radford Cup Colts: http://www.rugby.net.au/page/Radford-Cup-Colts-x-696-132-599.html
Not much info on Halligan Cup:http://www.rugby.net.au/page/Halligan-Cup-x-716-132-600.html
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
^^^^^^top post HJ - great stats etc.
No one but you can see the problem. I get the feeling that's because you're not telling us something that is very important to your outlook on the topic.
Most of those involved in this thread have no hesitation in putting the boot into the rugby authorities and yet not one of them perceives your problem.
I think that means solving it is up to you.
If in doubt go to Gordon - they only fielded 2 teams last year and half (statistically) if not more (because of poor recruiting) will be gone to grade - so you never know who might get a good gig.
And despite my long term misgivings about the joint the blokes i know that are presently involved in colts are tippy tops.
Or better still come to Easts - pretty sure Darren Coleman will give you the time of day: http://www.eastsrugby.com.au/the-club/staff/
No one but you can see the problem. I get the feeling that's because you're not telling us something that is very important to your outlook on the topic.
Most of those involved in this thread have no hesitation in putting the boot into the rugby authorities and yet not one of them perceives your problem.
I think that means solving it is up to you.
If in doubt go to Gordon - they only fielded 2 teams last year and half (statistically) if not more (because of poor recruiting) will be gone to grade - so you never know who might get a good gig.
And despite my long term misgivings about the joint the blokes i know that are presently involved in colts are tippy tops.
Or better still come to Easts - pretty sure Darren Coleman will give you the time of day: http://www.eastsrugby.com.au/the-club/staff/
I have no idea what you are talking about. My son is at a "minnow" school. I recently had a pleasant call with the guy running Randwick Colts asking what he and his team mates are doing with their rugby next year. I had no sense that Randwick are only looking for "stars". They are just looking for kids to play footy. The kids I know of who have played Colts do this really complex thing; they turn up at training, make new mates, and enjoy themselves.
Boof
Ward Prentice (10)
S
spirit of cupertino
Guest
Agreed. Unfortunately this has been my experience. The old nepotisms resurface, and those 1st XV players who on any independent assesment have gone backwards are not able to be challenged for their positions. It is precisely for this reason that we should look to a more transparent and inclusive system.
S
spirit of cupertino
Guest
Fair enough. I will try Gordon. But if that fails I will wheel my barrow of discontent to the door of a Nathan Tinkler and set up a new, innovative rugby franchise for those that play for the love of the game.
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