Time to throw out the bath water

[Groucho]

Adding Higginbotham, Palu, Pocock and Nau to this group will make a huge difference. Simmons and Fardy as locks, or Horwill back in form. Robinson plus some lump as props. Nau and Moore alternating as before. Now we have a good pack, and no need to build again from scratch.

 

[Hawko]

Adding Higginbotham, Palu, Pocock and Nau to this group will make a huge difference. Simmons and Fardy as locks, or Horwill back in form. Robinson plus some lump as props. Nau and Moore alternating as before. Now we have a good pack, and no need to build again from scratch.

I think you're absolutely right but are ignoring one thing: 18 rounds of Super rugby will leave at least one third of the pack in team rehab, and we'll be in the same position we are this year.

Every year after Super rugby you are building a team from those who survived without major knee and shoulder injuries.

 

[Ash]

Scott Sio and Paddy Ryan must be shaking their heads.

Why?

Sio at LH did worse in the scrums than Slipper when he came off the bench for the Wallabies. Going on performances, Sio would be third choice LH right now behind Robinson and Slipper. That being said, I would have Sio in my squad with Slipper at TH. Sio has huge potential and will be better for his exposure. He's still very, very young for a prop and it's no shame for a 22 or so year old prop struggling off the bench in a Test match.

What did Ryan do in the scrums this year to show he is better than Kepu, Alexander or Slipper? I actually remember the Tahs scrum going from dominant to dominated when Ryan came off the bench this year to replace Kepu. Ryan was very impressive carrying the ball, and the opposite in the scrum. Hell, I am pretty sure the Reds scrum got the better of Ryan in their final game when he came on.

 

[Zander]

Why? Because they're young and Slipper and Alexander are duds. They're going no where. No improvement, no potential.

 

[wamberal]

Why? Because they're young and Slipper and Alexander are duds. They're going no where. No improvement, no potential.

Ryan is actually a year older than Slipper.

 

[Zander]

Ryan is actually a year older than Slipper.

But not as shit.

 

[Groucho]

I think you're absolutely right but are ignoring one thing: 18 rounds of Super rugby will leave at least one third of the pack in team rehab, and we'll be in the same position we are this year.

Every year after Super rugby you are building a team from those who survived without major knee and shoulder injuries.

Absolutely. And we seem to either suffer from it more than other nations, or have less depth, or both. It does seem like we lose many more of our key players.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Absolutely. And we seem to either suffer from it more than other nations, or have less depth, or both. It does seem like we lose many more of our key players.

Not really. We just consider 10 of our players key players because of the lack of adequate alternatives in their position, where as in NZ you would only say that about Reid, McCaw and Carter.

 

[Ash]

But not as shit.

Slipper actually did a better job at holding up his side of the scrum than Ryan this year.

edit: So did Alexander, of course! Who did better than Slipper on TH, on average.

 

[Zander]

That's a rubbish call.

 

[wamberal]

That's a rubbish call.

Ryan is very average, frankly. Not as bad as Jeremy Tilse, but in the same category. Not good enough.

 

[Muttonbird]

Not really. We just consider 10 of our players key players because of the lack of adequate alternatives in their position, where as in NZ you would only say that about Reid, McCaw and Carter.

Agreed. You are living in a dream state if you think Palu and Polota Nau are going to contribute anything consistent for the rest of their careers.

 

[swingpass]

Absolutely. And we seem to either suffer from it more than other nations, or have less depth, or both. It does seem like we lose many more of our key players.

this excatly
we simply do not have the depth of playing talent and i suspect we never will.
australian rugby is slowly (rapidly?) returning to its natural position in world rugby. for quite a bit of the last 30 years ~1980 - 2009, the wallabies have performed well above their longterm history. we were blessed with a generation or two of great talent, innovative coaches and in the early days of professionalism administrators better than anyone else. that is now all gone and the rest of the world has caught up.
with everyone fit, available and in form, we can put on the field a very impressive 23, but i cant think of the last time that happened, ? v France EPOYT 2010.
unfortunately i think as supporters we have to get used to mediocre performances, i will continue to support them passionately but i am under no illusion they are world beaters now or in 2015

 

[p.Tah]

unfortunately i think as supporters we have to get used to mediocre performances, i will continue to support them passionately but i am under no illusion they are world beaters now or in 2015

Even if we lost to Italy tonight I hope I never share your pessimism. Glad you still support them passionately but Come On (insert Lleyton Hewitt duck salute), never give up hope, 2015 is ours!

 

[Groucho]

Not really. We just consider 10 of our players key players because of the lack of adequate alternatives in their position, where as in NZ you would only say that about Reid, McCaw and Carter.

Nonsense. We're currently missing a number of first choice players who would easily start for most national teams. Last year we were missing 14 first choice players for most of the year. Key players only means Macaw and Carter to you Kiwis, or crypto-Kiwis, whichever you are.

 

[BPC]

Ryan was very impressive carrying the ball, and the opposite in the scrum. Hell, I am pretty sure the Reds scrum got the better of Ryan in their final game when he came on.

Except that Link has clearly stated his preference for props who are mobile and add something around the park as part of the justification for dropping Robinson. Paddy Ryan should fit right in on that basis.

Personally I would like to see props picked for scrummaging first and foremost, but perhaps that's just crazy talk.

 

[wamberal]

Except that Link has clearly stated his preference for props who are mobile and add something around the park as part of the justification for dropping Robinson. Paddy Ryan should fit right in on that basis.

Personally I would like to see props picked for scrummaging first and foremost, but perhaps that's just crazy talk.

It's a balance, obviously, I would trust Link to make the best overall decision. A former World Cup winning prop, former Wallabies assistant coach, Waratahs coach, Reds premiership-winning coach. I suspect he knows a bit more about the game than most of us put together.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Except that Link has clearly stated his preference for props who are mobile and add something around the park as part of the justification for dropping Robinson. Paddy Ryan should fit right in on that basis.

Personally I would like to see props picked for scrummaging first and foremost, but perhaps that's just crazy talk.

He hasn't though. He has picked a player slightly inferior in the scrum on the basis he is better around the park. You're making it sound like he's called up Ben Daley or something.

 

[BPC]

He hasn't though. He has picked a player slightly inferior in the scrum on the basis he is better around the park. You're making it sound like he's called up Ben Daley or something.

Who are you saying is slightly inferior in the scrum but superior around the park, Slipper, Alexander or both?

 

[jay-c]

the major issue for me is that this ploy of 'slightly inferior in the scrum to gain someone better around the park' has failed repeatedly for the last decade and has gained us a reputation for being so poor in the scrum that if refs are unsure they just assume we are the weaker scrum.
and its not going away while we continually pick our best scrumagers on the bench
i actually have a massive problem with our scrum not being demolished last weekend because its going to be the one example where we were'nt smashed which justifies us playing weak scrumagers for another year