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TRC2021 - Wallabies v Pumas @ Townsville 25/09

PhilClinton

John Solomon (38)
McMahon was not an automatic selection when he was last in Australia b4 pulling the pin for Japan. Maybe he is a gun but I still will reserve judgment still we see what he offers in wallaby collours. More so as at 6 and 8 have some decent options here.

Don’t get me wrong would love to see what he can offer but also my head tells me would be unfair to other players in the mix.

I don't really get this 'fairness' argument. This is a representative team, not the under 6 school team where the bloke who rocks up for training on time gets to play flyhalf.

We've won some games against, lets be honest, a fairly disappointing Boks outfit. They had a rubbish game plan both games and looked flat. In both games the backrowers showed some good things but also things to work on.

Rennie hasn't called McMahon back to make up training numbers.

If he believes he's the best option to take the Wallabies to the next level, just pick him. Kerevi and Cooper have been great. Lets not forget, before Cooper was actually picked, people on these forums were pulling their hair out that we would select a 33yr old has been. McMahon is probably the player out of these Japanese contingent who actually held the most value before going overseas.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
He was first choice whenever we didn't have both Hooper and Pocock available. In 2017, his last season in Australia he started the entirety of the Rugby Championship and EOYT at number 8.

70% of his starts for the Wallabies have been at number 8.

I expect that's where he'll be selected either as the starter or as the bench option.


he was equal GAGR Wallaby Player of the Year in 2017, his last year.

He should definitely play the last two tests
 

Ignoto

Ken Catchpole (46)
i don’t get the angst to drop swinton personally as he looks to be the one to persist with as well as Samu off the bench.

I'm a fan of accountability. Rennie has expressed publicly twice now that Swinton needs to do more work on his tackle height. By picking Swinton again this weekend, you reinforce the notion that accountability is just a word that is thrown around, but never enforced.

In the past, the three amigos were allowed to do whatever they wanted because of the power they held. We have talent at that position, so there's no excuse not to drop Swinton.
 

TSR

Geoff Shaw (53)
I don't really get this 'fairness' argument. This is a representative team, not the under 6 school team where the bloke who rocks up for training on time gets to play flyhalf.

We've won some games against, lets be honest, a fairly disappointing Boks outfit. They had a rubbish game plan both games and looked flat. In both games the backrowers showed some good things but also things to work on.

Rennie hasn't called McMahon back to make up training numbers.

If he believes he's the best option to take the Wallabies to the next level, just pick him. Kerevi and Cooper have been great. Lets not forget, before Cooper was actually picked, people on these forums were pulling their hair out that we would select a 33yr old has been. McMahon is probably the player out of these Japanese contingent who actually held the most value before going overseas.
I agree that players within the squad need to earn their jersey and convince Rennie he doesn’t need to look outside for options. The ‘fairness’ on the system is that guys in the squad are getting the chance day-by-day to prove their worth.

What I don’t really get though is the view expressed by some that McMahon would have been given an assurance he would definitely be picked before he decided to enter quarantine and that not picking him would send the wrong message to the OS guys. With all of the restrictions of COVID anyone in the squad has had to make sacrifices. Shaun should have to earn his jersey the same as anyone else. Rennie may well be very clear on the fact that he does intend to use McMahon and he may well have indicated to him that he is definitely in his plans - but I hope he stopped short of promising him a run. To do otherwise would be, IMO, Rennie making a rod for his own back. As soon as any player is given a guarantee you run the risk that the will compromise the team culture of earning the jersey.
 

PhilClinton

John Solomon (38)
What I don’t really get though is the view expressed by some that McMahon would have been given an assurance he would definitely be picked before he decided to enter quarantine and that not picking him would send the wrong message to the OS guys. With all of the restrictions of COVID anyone in the squad has had to make sacrifices. Shaun should have to earn his jersey the same as anyone else. Rennie may well be very clear on the fact that he does intend to use McMahon and he may well have indicated to him that he is definitely in his plans - but I hope he stopped short of promising him a run. To do otherwise would be, IMO, Rennie making a rod for his own back. As soon as any player is given a guarantee you run the risk that the will compromise the team culture of earning the jersey.
I disagree.

Lets not forget McMahon left Australian rugby for Japan knowing that he would never be selected for the Wallabies again, unless he returned to Super Rugby. He did so because of financial reasons and also because he believed playing in Japan would give his career more longevity (injuries were already holding him back). Now some rule changes have occurred and he has become eligible again without having to change his circumstances.

For those reasons you'd imagine representing the Wallabies long term probably wasn't a key factor in McMahon's playing career. The fact that he has cut his holiday short and spent two weeks in quarantine to make himself available is probably an indicator that he was given more than just a 'hey I'd like you to come into the squad' text from Rennie. Any discussions between McMahon and Rennie would have been private, plenty of coaches give players the inside word that a certain position is theirs to lose, what they need to do to take back that position etc. I'm not sure the wider playing group would be privy to those conditions to the extent of compromising team culture.
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
For those reasons you'd imagine representing the Wallabies long term probably wasn't a key factor in McMahon's playing career. The fact that he has cut his holiday short and spent two weeks in quarantine to make himself available is probably an indicator that he was given more than just a 'hey I'd like you to come into the squad' text from Rennie. Any discussions between McMahon and Rennie would have been private, plenty of coaches give players the inside word that a certain position is theirs to lose, what they need to do to take back that position etc. I'm not sure the wider playing group would be privy to those conditions to the extent of compromising team culture.

I think Rennie can certainly say to him that if he shows he is good enough he'll be selected and then the player can make that choice whether they go through quarantine etc.

I highly doubt there is ever a guarantee of selection given because it opens up the coach to a debacle if the player he's given that assurance to clearly isn't up to it once he's with the group and then the coach either needs to renege on his word or make himself look inconsistent selecting a player who the playing group has observed is not deserving from a form perspective.
 

PhilClinton

John Solomon (38)
Really doesn't seem like the kind of thing Rennie would say.

It's not the sort of thing he would say in public. But are we really well placed enough to comment on the conversations he would have behind closed doors with his players? I don't know Rennie personally, maybe you do, but knowing generally the types of conversations that happen between a player and coach, I think it's feasible he would have given McMahon at least some degree of certainty of selection.

Re your point BH - I agree it can be an egg on the face situation if the coach has to go back on his word to a player. But I imagine he could always pull the 'sorry mate you're not fit enough' card and try and work it that way. In McMahon's situation though Rennie has already come out and said how good his conditioning is.

Probably time for me to move on from this and wait for the selections anyway. All things considered it's quite possible McMahon doesn't even play this weekend and I look like an idiot, again.
 

TSR

Geoff Shaw (53)
I disagree.

, plenty of coaches give players the inside word that a certain position is theirs to lose, what they need to do to take back that position etc.
I’m happy to agree to disagree.

I’ll have to take your word on the second bit - but that’s certainly not the impression I’ve ever got. Certainly coaches dangle the carrot when they want a player to commit to the program, but I’ve always got the impression coaches avoid giving guarantees. There’s a big difference between giving players incentive and/or clear feedback on expectations and/or opportunities. I’d personally be surprised if they went as far as giving them a binding commitment.
 

Tahtrajic

Ward Prentice (10)
He was valued and rated very highly after some blockbusting games for Australia against quality opposition. I recall him having some barnstormers against the All Blacks for example.
Don’t forget he was behind Pocock and Hooper with Fardy as the extra Lineout option
 

Tahtrajic

Ward Prentice (10)
I disagree.

Lets not forget McMahon left Australian rugby for Japan knowing that he would never be selected for the Wallabies again, unless he returned to Super Rugby. He did so because of financial reasons and also because he believed playing in Japan would give his career more longevity (injuries were already holding him back). Now some rule changes have occurred and he has become eligible again without having to change his circumstances.

For those reasons you'd imagine representing the Wallabies long term probably wasn't a key factor in McMahon's playing career. The fact that he has cut his holiday short and spent two weeks in quarantine to make himself available is probably an indicator that he was given more than just a 'hey I'd like you to come into the squad' text from Rennie. Any discussions between McMahon and Rennie would have been private, plenty of coaches give players the inside word that a certain position is theirs to lose, what they need to do to take back that position etc. I'm not sure the wider playing group would be privy to those conditions to the extent of compromising team culture.
I seam to remember he had quite a few injuries in the last 12 months of his time in Aus. He went to Japan because the game there is not as hard on the body and the season is short
 

upthereds#!

Peter Fenwicke (45)
For me Mcmahon was always better off the bench. A few times I remember him starting, his lack of mass was a bit more telling in the tight stuff when the big boys of top tier were fresh. But when brought on later, holy crap did he make an impact.

I'd be happier with him starting if we had bigger locks like Arnold and Skelton.
 

swingpass

John Thornett (49)
McMahon is built like a 7.
but plays like a 6 + 8 combined, and i dont mean a 14! as someone alluded too above he left australia partly because of how beat up he was, partly for money and in part because he and his management were really pissed at the Wallabies staff (Cheik principally) who continued to play him during the EOYT, on his what turned out to be a badly injured ankle.
 

Brumby Runner

Tim Horan (67)
Samu's value on the bench is he can step into any back row slot and make it work.

Would keep Valetini at 8 so he can continue to grow into the role. Minutes in Test matches are precious.
True Pfitzy but I reckon McMahon is the same. In my book Sean should come on to the bench, if at all in this match, and Pete should get the reward of the starting spot.
 

Dctarget

Steve Williams (59)
Think Argies should make our breakdown messier, SA got zero pilfers. Don’t think we should change much. Same forward pack but McMahon straight swap to 6. Petaia promoted to 15, JOC to take his bench position.
 
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