Wales v Australia

[hammertimethere]

I don't see why Lilo's ability to cover 15 would give him the inside track ahead of Cooper for a bench spot considering AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will start and slide back there if something happens to Izzy, and Foley will play who can play 15 at a pinch. Cooper should be on the bench.

Henry did some really good things though vs the BaaBaas. I do think he wasn't perfect defensively but a lot of that was due to being left in no man's land by his inside defenders. Apparently they are changing their defensive system a bit (maybe to more resemble the mega fast line speed and man on man system employed by the Tahs).

I'd like to see Henry in the 23 somewhere with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) starting (and covering 15) and Horne as the other wing option. Ideally AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Henry start with Horne on the bench with Cooper. That way outside backs and centres are both adequately covered. If you need more cover than that you probably need multiple ambulances on standby.

 

[hammertimethere]

I'd be fine with starting AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Horne though with Henry on the bench.

 

[No4918]

1. Slipper
2. Fainga'a
3. Kepu
4. Carter
5. Simmons
6. McMahan
7. Hooper
8. MCCalman
9. Phipps
10. Cooper
11. Speight
12. Lilo
13. Kuridrani
14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15. Folau

Res: Hanson, Robinson, Alexander, Horwill, Hodgson, Genia, Foley, Horne

 

[emuarse]

I suggest you have another look and especially concentrate on Nic's involvements in the four phases leading up to Rob Horne's try. His management of play in those phases directly led to the overlap for Horne on the left flank.

The rest of his game was very good as well. Made some telling covering tackles as well as some dominant front on tackles of bigger blokes. Cleaned up some kicks through by the Baa Baas as well. His speed to the rucks was mostly very good. On the whole, he had a much better game than Will did and I believe Cheika will have him on the bench for Wales if indeed this game was a guide to choosing between Will and Nic.

Stop been bigoted in criticising my remarks.
What you say might be correct, but what I saw is what I saw, White's passing as a halfback was often off in direction. This in turn allowed the Baa Baa defence to get up to our inside backs.
If you doubt this, go back and look at the Foxsport recording if you have it, which I do.

 

[TGFan]

Just my observations.

Genia: Looked rusty / slow (delivery and also pace). always took a couple of steps prior to passing. Noticed a massive difference in tempo when White got on and passed straight from the floor. Phipps my first choice for Wales.

Cooper: Rusty but less rusty than Genia. I imagine is a few games off top condition. Didn't do enough to trouble Foley though surely for Wales game.

Speight: Did nothing wrong but I imagine is a few games off top condition. I'd probably start him against Wales (give him a cap finally!) and give him a half, then have Horne on to close it out.

McMahon: I understand the Barbars didn't have much time together and it was a test but this kid is unreal. Not the biggest lad but plays above his weight (I'm sure he is big but I mean he is not Fardy / Higgers / Jones big). He is the Future. Love to see him get a spot in the 23 for the tests especially against England. Love to see him and Pocock running around together.

Horwill: Thought he got through some work and his tackling was good too. Few right around the bootlaces. Same with Ben Robbo.

Carter: His backhanded off loads worry me. There were a few of these that went to ground / got turned over. His pace worries me (eveident against ABs on Coles try James Try - I think). He seems to get through work though, hits a lot of rucks and generally shifts bodies.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Super Rugby debut
Rebels Rookie of the year
Australian Rookie of the year
NRC Best player
Rising Best Player
Australian U20 captain
Commonwealth games
Wallabies debut

Not sure his done enough for his first year.

This was my point?

I can't for the life of me, on any continent, think of a better first year of professional rugby.

Also his listed weight of 100.5 is ludicrous, he is easily 105 and plays like he is 115 which is all that matters.

He is a 6, and currently our best 6.

 

[Tomikin]

I don't think Speight was bad at all. That's not what I've said.

I'm just less convinced that getting through the game was all he had to do to get a starting wing spot next week.

With the recent test wingers, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Tomane both rested and Horne having a strong game it's by no means a straight forward decision in my mind.

There's already a logjam for bench spots with Cooper and Leali'ifano likely battling for one bench spot.

Who knows, Cheika could stick with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Tomane on the wings, play both Cooper and Leali'ifano on the bench and Horne and Speight could both miss the 23 altogether. I don't think that's likely but it isn't out of the realms of possibility.

Maybe I'm giving him to much credit, But I truly believe he is our best winger and that he will be an absolute star. His upsides are so much higher then the other wingers in the squad, so while his coming back from injury I would pick him.

EDIT: But wouldnt be upset if any of the other players get selected.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Maybe I'm giving him to much credit, But I truly believe he is our best winger and that he will be an absolute star. His upsides are so much higher then the other wingers in the squad, so while his coming back from injury I would pick him.

I agree.

His upside is so considerable, and when on form is clearly our best winger that I believe he deserves first shot. Especially considering the hurdles he has already faced. Let the man play rugby!

 

[BDA]

Wing will be a tough choice this week.

The fact that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was rested indicates he will start.

Speight made a few good runs on the weekend and to be fair to him it was only his second game in the last few months and the first at this higher level. I'd wager he'll take another step up in quality next week if given the chance. Made at least one poor defensive read on the weekend but was/is generally solid in defence.

Horne had another strong game I thought and he is very well suited to Cheika's game. Plays hard and is solid in defence. He doesn't have the pace of the other options, he got chased down on the weekend at least once.

Tomane is another solid option but I think Speight offers more in both attack and defence.

I'd probably go with Horne (reward form) and ACC to start, with Speight on the bench to offer some attacking spark late in the game.

Re the White v Genia debate, it is funny to see how different people assessed their performances differently. I'd suggest some internal biases driving a lot of those opinions. Watching/reading the news report gave you the impression that Genia and Cooper played really well. On channel 10 last night they said Genia showed "sparks of attacking brilliance", a bit of a stretch I think. My personal view (and I'll acknowledge my own biases towards Genia) is that Genia was ok. Not poor or brilliant. He did a few things in the first half (cleaning up counter attack ball, nice creative passes, etc) that you wouldn't see from White. Those things are not in White's repertoire. Genia service raged from fair to excellent. He still needs to increase his speed at the ruck to get to where Phipps is, but some of his passing was top quality. The first two tries were scored off perfectly placed flat passes to runners coming at speed. Top class stuff. Also there was nothing will did that was very poor. No poor chip kicks or the like.

White's speed at the ruck was maybe better than previous games but he still slowed things down too much in my opinion. On at least two occasions he let the ball sit at the base of the ruck for about 4 or 5 seconds. His passing wasn't as good as Genia's either. He didn't have the sweet flat passing game of Genia nor did he put any blokes through a gap. Cant remember him going for a run either (Genia was at least probing around the ruck in the first half and went for a few snipes)White's biggest strength during the super season was his kicking game but we haven't seen it during the test season. I think if we are going to play a ball in hand running game, Genia still offers much more, as he did on the weekend.

 

[Biffo]

at the revered "face value", Speight's play on Saturday did not earn a place in the 23 for Cardiff.
in rugby merit, that performance was some way below the last peformances of Ashley-Cooper, Horne and Tomane.
however, a performance in an exhibition game can not be compared to one in a test, in any sense.

if Speight had not played on Saturday, everyone on this forum would be screaming for him to start against Wales.
in hard-nosed thinking, the exhibition game should be ignored and that outcome should prevail.
start him.

i, like many others, have been on the Speight bandwagon for a long time, although i was a late addition.
i must say that Speight's display on Saturday made me investigate the next stop of that wagon and to look at the ground for a soft landing spot.
it was poor, very poor.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Big deal.

Speight > Horne any day.

Even if he isn't fully fit.

 

[fatprop]

1. Slipper
2. Fainga'a
3. Kepu
4. Carter
5. Simmons
6. Higgers/McMahon, still not sure, great game, but starting?
7. Hooper
8. McCalman
9. Phipps
10. Foley
11. Speight
12. Lilo
13. Kuridrani
14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15. Folau

Res:
Hanson,
Robinson,
Alexander, although Faulkner maybe a less hinging option
Horwill,
Hodgson/McMahon/Jones - not sure if necessary "if" McMahon starts, Luke Jones maybe a more physical/bigger option against a big physical pack
White,
Cooper,
Horne

 

[Biffo]

Big deal.

Speight > Horne any day.

Even if he isn't fully fit.

last Saturday?

 

[matt james]

I am still a bit unsure about what approach Australia should take to these games.
I think the coming games should be viewed in the context of the coming World cup.
That means players should not necessarily be played on form alone, but potential.
As such Speight has to start ahead of Horne; he has so much more potential. McMahon needs top be on the bench at a minimum. You cannot split To'omua and Lealifano of recent form (well maybe you can if favour of leli) so I would favour To'omua as I think he is a better long term prospect.
I also think Quade is a better player when fully fit than Foley so should be given some opportunity to play - albeit from the bench.
We need to move on from Alexander and Robinson, they don't deserve game time in my opinion.

 

[something]

I think the coming games should be viewed in the context of the coming World cup.
That means players should not necessarily be played on form alone, but potential.

great line and great approach.

 

[Froggy]

I said it before, but I think Lilo outside Foley, or To'omua outside Cooper. Also, for mine Speight and Horne on the wings, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) on the bench. Having said that, I know neither of these things will happen.

 

[Slim 293]

last Saturday?

A tale of two halves.........

In the first half Speight got some crappy ball (I put much of this down to Cooper unnecessarily flinging it wide too often) but still managed to get across the gain line, and was very busy off the ball.............

He wasn't as involved in the second half, and Horne got some good touches............

But you'd have to go with Speight for next week.

That was his first proper match after an injury layoff, and I think we need to give him as much time as possible because he ultimately offers so much more than Horne, who at best is a very solid player.

 

[Tomikin]

Its interesting people think Speight was poor or very poor. I thought he was ok too good. Made good yards with the ball, sent Mccalmen down the sideline after a shocking pass to him. Generally made his tackles, The Thomson try looked bad but hardly his fault as he had Ben Alexander inside him and 3 barbarians outside him.

Only get better, I guess we have 4 really good wing players at the moment. Speight ceiling is just higher.

 

[Paradox]

it was poor, very poor.

Can you please explain why it was poor? I didn't see him miss a tackle, drop a ball or get stripped of the ball twice like Horne or make a shocking defensive miss like Folau. A try was scored on his wing with a 3 man overlap and Benn Robinson standing at outside centre in the defensive line. The Wallaby forwards on numerous occasions failed to stop the Baa Baas offloading which created huge problems in the W defense.

 

[BDA]

yes no way was Speight "poor". He had one bad defensive miss read but was otherwise solid and seemed to move over the gain line well enough. For a guy who's having his first top level game for a few months it was pretty good really. He played literally one game of NRC footy since returning from injury and I watched that game - from memory he didn't get much ball. One NRC game on the wing is not great preparation for your Wallabies debut. Big step up in quality this week. That Barbarian's team were a big step up from the NRC teams

I reckon there is every chance he could dominate next week, certainly by the end of the tour. Needs more time either from the bench or in the starting side.