Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
I'd believe that, have seen scrums struggle after Horwill being the sole change on.
Simmons actually shocks me with his scrummaging ability.
Wales v Australia
- Thread starter boyo
- Start date
- Status
I'd believe that, have seen scrums struggle after Horwill being the sole change on.
Simmons actually shocks me with his scrummaging ability.
Teh Other Dave
Alan Cameron (40)
The first mistake Marto made was to open his mouth.
The problem for Skelton is that he won't really present as an option in the line-out, and needs to learn scrummaging. He's one-dimentional insofar that he's an absolute weapon in attack, but is a liability at set-piece. You could hear the Welsh commentators talking up the solid Australian scrum just when Skelton joined the fray, right before the penalty try - the effect was immediately tangible.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Bit of a massive Tahs bias there. I even said Foley would be our World Cup 10. He's not a winning one in my opinion, though, not if you don't have a massive Saffa like pack from 2007 or England 2003 to play behind.
4 clean breaks all night against a rusty Welsh side with 54% of possession, of which 1 was created by Foley. Which one of our three tries did Foley have any hand in? I guess it was his grubber we regathered led to a try off Lilo to Slipper to Kuridrani. No, Foley is not doing it for me on attack. Our attack looks awesome because of Kuridrani, Folau, and then Tomane in the second half ran over people. Lilo created more space for his runners than Foley.
Our attack on last year's EOYT was significantly better than this year's.
Foley has periods of getting it right, I can think of two 3 - 4 minute periods in the game where Foley took control and we looked dangerous. He needs to do that more.
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
Always a good assessment, Hooper got my three he finished at the same tempo he started.
Foley got 2 for his game management, however couldn't believe he kicked away the ball at the end - stupidity.
QC (Quade Cooper) is still my first choice BUT not now, before anyone jumps. He needs to develop combos and when players start reading him he creates so much more than Foley and To'omua plays a great 12 outside him.
hammertimethere
Trevor Allan (34)
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
You trying to shut down the site?
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Four points that stand out for me after my first watching.
1. The backrow was very unbalanced and whilst very dynamic didn't threaten the defensive line at all. The Welsh had to make the tackles but they were stretched in doing it. As a result I was surprised when Skelton came on for Carter, I would have though a better move would be to replace McMahon with Skelton and Carter with Horwill.
2. Foley - Played wonderfully flat, but the depth runners just weren't there and part of that was the unbalanced back row with everyone looking for the ruck and not the offload. Not helped by the plan of having Carter running wider. The grubber kicks were a direct result IMO and are a problem in the execution of the skill as much as why they were needed in the first place.
3. Defence - Tomane and Kuridrani are having the most trouble adjusting as the Grey system is like nothing they have been playing at the Ponies or the Wallabies in the past. Tomane in particular is getting caught out on the end of the line too often. But the good point is that after the first Welsh raid that the Wallabies scrambled well and defended, just, Chieka was very animated in yelling down the mic. Things improved a bit and after the half time break they were much improved. That gives me confidence that the players are listening to Grey in this regard.
4. Scrum - I thought the Welsh got away with a bit in the first 50, binding on the arm, pulling back from the set, and turning in. I thought that the starting front three had very good games up to that point. However when Skelton came on I had reservations that unfortunately proved true. As I stated above his set up was poor right from the start. Skelton is a young player who has had no real effective set piece training in his professional career. Remember that Chieka admitted that he placed little importance on the Tahs scrum and spent little time on it, and technical scrum training was done by Robinson. Blades has been Wallabies Forwards coach for 3 or 4 years now. I expressed serious concerns about his results after the RWC and nothing has changed my opinion since. As under the Deans era, one aspect of forward play will be shored up only to have other areas decline. To much relies totally on the selection of individuals while there does not appear to be an improvement in weak areas of play for individual players. I had really hoped that Foley would take up the position as he is the best forwards coach remaining in Oz. Certainly IMO at the end of this tour Blades must be moved on.
1. The backrow was very unbalanced and whilst very dynamic didn't threaten the defensive line at all. The Welsh had to make the tackles but they were stretched in doing it. As a result I was surprised when Skelton came on for Carter, I would have though a better move would be to replace McMahon with Skelton and Carter with Horwill.
2. Foley - Played wonderfully flat, but the depth runners just weren't there and part of that was the unbalanced back row with everyone looking for the ruck and not the offload. Not helped by the plan of having Carter running wider. The grubber kicks were a direct result IMO and are a problem in the execution of the skill as much as why they were needed in the first place.
3. Defence - Tomane and Kuridrani are having the most trouble adjusting as the Grey system is like nothing they have been playing at the Ponies or the Wallabies in the past. Tomane in particular is getting caught out on the end of the line too often. But the good point is that after the first Welsh raid that the Wallabies scrambled well and defended, just, Chieka was very animated in yelling down the mic. Things improved a bit and after the half time break they were much improved. That gives me confidence that the players are listening to Grey in this regard.
4. Scrum - I thought the Welsh got away with a bit in the first 50, binding on the arm, pulling back from the set, and turning in. I thought that the starting front three had very good games up to that point. However when Skelton came on I had reservations that unfortunately proved true. As I stated above his set up was poor right from the start. Skelton is a young player who has had no real effective set piece training in his professional career. Remember that Chieka admitted that he placed little importance on the Tahs scrum and spent little time on it, and technical scrum training was done by Robinson. Blades has been Wallabies Forwards coach for 3 or 4 years now. I expressed serious concerns about his results after the RWC and nothing has changed my opinion since. As under the Deans era, one aspect of forward play will be shored up only to have other areas decline. To much relies totally on the selection of individuals while there does not appear to be an improvement in weak areas of play for individual players. I had really hoped that Foley would take up the position as he is the best forwards coach remaining in Oz. Certainly IMO at the end of this tour Blades must be moved on.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
On Wales:-
I said two years ago that Wales under Gatland had stagnated. They offer little different game to game and play a very low risk "safe" game regardless of who is selected. This will work OK against other defensive oriented teams but against attacking teams who can score a few points they will lose more often than not.
I said it two years ago and that to hasn't changed, the Welsh RU made a big mistake when they re-signed Gatland. He had taken the side as far as he could and achieved very good results. They were not going to improve further and they haven't. I would say that Ireland has much more improvement in them under Schmidt than Gatland is likely to get out of Wales. I would also point to the rhetoric of Gatland and the similarities to that of Deans at the same point in his Wallabies career. Gatland stated after last nights game that he was happy with how Wales played if not the result, the same response that he has had over the last X number of games.
I said two years ago that Wales under Gatland had stagnated. They offer little different game to game and play a very low risk "safe" game regardless of who is selected. This will work OK against other defensive oriented teams but against attacking teams who can score a few points they will lose more often than not.
I said it two years ago and that to hasn't changed, the Welsh RU made a big mistake when they re-signed Gatland. He had taken the side as far as he could and achieved very good results. They were not going to improve further and they haven't. I would say that Ireland has much more improvement in them under Schmidt than Gatland is likely to get out of Wales. I would also point to the rhetoric of Gatland and the similarities to that of Deans at the same point in his Wallabies career. Gatland stated after last nights game that he was happy with how Wales played if not the result, the same response that he has had over the last X number of games.
B
Bobby Sands
Guest
Lunatic.
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
Like others. I'm not sold on the starting locks combo of Simmons & Carter..this is groundhog day on this issue for about the 8th time this season. Carter has a go at just about everything, I'll give him that, but he is effective at not much of it. Simmons rarely stands out except for the 2 or 3 mandatory penalties he gives away each game, but if one of the two has to keep starting it should be he. All that said, I am unable to offer a solution - Skelton has the potential to be a world class lock but if that's to happen it's more likely to be around RWC2019 than next year's running - and it could simply be the case that Simmons and Carter at present are the best of a bad bunch.
Genia is still nowhere near the Genia of old but he has done enough the last 2 weeks to show he is better than the Genia of recent, and that's enough to elevate him to the position of #2 halfback in the country IMO.
All of the backs had reasonable games, as others have said they are clearly trying to adjust to a new defensive structure.
Genia is still nowhere near the Genia of old but he has done enough the last 2 weeks to show he is better than the Genia of recent, and that's enough to elevate him to the position of #2 halfback in the country IMO.
All of the backs had reasonable games, as others have said they are clearly trying to adjust to a new defensive structure.
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
Super Rugby is going to be very interesting between these two. Momentum of their respective teams may play a big part. Foley has to control a side who is about to defend a title so everybody is going to be gunning for them much the same as the Reds in 2012. The Reds have recruited big signings and developing players have shown big impact in the NRC. There is big expectation for Cooper to make this back line fire because everybody is gushing about it on paper.
It will be very interesting how it plays out.
Personally I like both these players and respect what they bring to the game. We are well served at 10
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
BDA
Peter Johnson (47)
thoughts on a rewatch.
- Defensive and attacking structure in the first half was very poor. No doubt due to the new structures Cheika and Grey are implementing. much better in the second half.
- Fainga'a had another great game. worked hard at the ruck, and walked the line expertly. Managed to slow the ball over without giving away penalty. He often has games where he just lies all over the ruck but he got things just right this week.
- the backrow of McCalman/Hooper/McMahon was imbalanced. I thought McMahon worked hard but I think we need a 6 with a bit more size (Fardy/Higgers). McCalman is having his best season for the wallabies imo. No.8 for next year are set (Palu/McCalman).
- Lilo had a solid night. I still think To'omua is the better option, but im not sure you could drop the bloke for that performance.
- Halfpenny's injury probably changed the complexion of the game.
- Defensive and attacking structure in the first half was very poor. No doubt due to the new structures Cheika and Grey are implementing. much better in the second half.
- Fainga'a had another great game. worked hard at the ruck, and walked the line expertly. Managed to slow the ball over without giving away penalty. He often has games where he just lies all over the ruck but he got things just right this week.
- the backrow of McCalman/Hooper/McMahon was imbalanced. I thought McMahon worked hard but I think we need a 6 with a bit more size (Fardy/Higgers). McCalman is having his best season for the wallabies imo. No.8 for next year are set (Palu/McCalman).
- Lilo had a solid night. I still think To'omua is the better option, but im not sure you could drop the bloke for that performance.
- Halfpenny's injury probably changed the complexion of the game.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
If you think we are going to beat a top 3 team with that performance you are crazy. 2 forward passes, 2 aimless grubbers (one lead to a try against us), missed touch, that last kick in the dying seconds could have easily lost us the game, he is predictable on attack and his defence is still questionable.
Your crazy if you think he is the reason our attack looks anything like awesome. Pretty sure the blinders by Lilo and Kuridrani over the last games have something to do with it too.
Sure there was a lot of positives about his game, but much of the criticism on these forums are justified. He may well be first choice at the moment, rightly so given injuries, but he has a lot of improving to do if he wants to start the RWC - this you cannot deny.
You may have Tah-love for him but I don't see him, and many others don't see him as a long-term option.
P
Paradox
Guest
Wow, and you're the guy posting that Alexander should have made more carries off the bench when he actually made about 4 in a row in the lead up to the drop goal. Genia, Alexander and Foley worked the most to make that drop goal happen.
Have some self awareness and cease being shrill.
Benaud
Tom Lawton (22)
Really enjoyable game.
Thought 7-15 for us were all great. The scrum was the weakness again, like most tests for the last 20 odd years, and I like Cheika's attempts at fixing that through attitude - it can't hurt. 4-6 seemed to be the regular answers in the "fuck, who was that idiot!" category. But the backs + Hooper picked up the slack really well. Izzy and Kuridrani in particular were exceptional.
What's the best source for stats for these games? My usual sources - sanzar and fox sports - don't appear to cover it.
Thought 7-15 for us were all great. The scrum was the weakness again, like most tests for the last 20 odd years, and I like Cheika's attempts at fixing that through attitude - it can't hurt. 4-6 seemed to be the regular answers in the "fuck, who was that idiot!" category. But the backs + Hooper picked up the slack really well. Izzy and Kuridrani in particular were exceptional.
What's the best source for stats for these games? My usual sources - sanzar and fox sports - don't appear to cover it.
This line is uttered literally every time we beat a lesser-ranked side. Every time. And it's meaningless. Because we do beat top 3 teams, you rise to the opposition. We always do, and yet this still gets pulled up every time we beat Wales, or France, or Scotland, or whoever.
.
Agree with much of what has been said here. A few points:
1. Skeptical that the Wales penalty try was that. Thought we clearly popped them on one scrum, and they were just as responsible for the last wheel as us. And even then their forward momentum wasn't huge. Pen try? Hmmm.......
2. Benny McCalman was the unsung hero of that game. Haven't seen the stats but he was everywhere. Just does the hard yards every game.
3. Joe Tomane also had his best game of the year. Good to see him in smash mode again.
4. Thought Wales were on top of us physically, but we kept composed and held our nerve to get the choccies. A lot to be happy with overall.
5. Locks still underperforming. Not sure what the answer is. Carter was very poor I thought, spilled a couple of pills under no pressure.
6. Genia was better, but he still has a lot of work to do to catch Phipps. It was noticeable how much slower Genia's pass is than Phipps, who just rockets them. Genia showed a few nice sparkles, but I reckon he's still only at 70%.
.
1. Skeptical that the Wales penalty try was that. Thought we clearly popped them on one scrum, and they were just as responsible for the last wheel as us. And even then their forward momentum wasn't huge. Pen try? Hmmm.......
2. Benny McCalman was the unsung hero of that game. Haven't seen the stats but he was everywhere. Just does the hard yards every game.
3. Joe Tomane also had his best game of the year. Good to see him in smash mode again.
4. Thought Wales were on top of us physically, but we kept composed and held our nerve to get the choccies. A lot to be happy with overall.
5. Locks still underperforming. Not sure what the answer is. Carter was very poor I thought, spilled a couple of pills under no pressure.
6. Genia was better, but he still has a lot of work to do to catch Phipps. It was noticeable how much slower Genia's pass is than Phipps, who just rockets them. Genia showed a few nice sparkles, but I reckon he's still only at 70%.
.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
HJ you are absolutely on the money. First time I've ever seen the second rower's head popping out of the scrum while the contest is still on. Confirmed for me that Skelton cannot (yet) scrum along with his lack of jumping ability in the lineout. Looks awfully like he doesn't have any of the core skills of a second rower. Needs to go back to club'Super level for another 12 months or so before ever being tried at test level again.
Kane Douglas leaving for Europe is such a shame right now. He'd be a perfect complement for Simmons to take us into the RWC next year. Horwill is an ideal guy to have off the bench, an experienced, strong head but Douglas' ruthless aggression would be very handy right now.
- Status