Wallabies 2020

[Sully]

I’d be shocked if White isn’t the no.9 with McDermott on the bench.

I'll go the other way and say if a rookie back is getting picked it will be McDermott. Especially if O'Connor is the flyhalf.

 

[cyclopath]

I'll admit I have not watched White playing in his time away from Oz much at all. I accept that whatever tactics he would play for the Wallabies would be Rennie's call. But the ponderously slow box-kicks I saw the other week are something I want to see less of, not more. The pace he was doing them robbed the Brumbies of momentum and rhythm in that final. As I wrote at the time, I thought White was comfortably the 3rd out of the 3 halves (in the squad) in that game. McDermott and Powell looked better.

 

[TSR]

I don’t really see what White has done, either recently or historically which has elevated him to a ‘must pick’ in some eyes.

And, on reflection, I hope he isn’t because it seems to me he would be the most conservative option and, whilst I get that conservative often works at test level I don’t reckon it’ll work with the cattle we have.

I think the question with a number of these guys like To'omua, DHP, O’Connor & even maybe Sio is whether Rennie sees then as part of the long term future or just a place holder.

 

[qwerty51]

His kicking game.

 

[TSR]

But he’s always had a great kicking game and yet he’s still never been more than passable at test level.

 

[qwerty51]

Well if you have a great kicking game the Wallabies ain't the place to show that off - until now hopefully.

 

[TSR]

Well if you have a great kicking game the Wallabies ain't the place to show that off - until now hopefully.

Fair point. None the less the other three do all have kicking games, even if the aren’t as good and I think they all offer other stuff.

I do get the impression though that some see him as some sort of safe, dependable option. I don’t really think he has demonstrated that consistently at test level. In which case I am not sure that the fact he has had test experience tips the scales in his favour.

 

[Zero_Cool]

I wouldn't blame Rennie for picking White game one, but even if we assume White is exactly as good as Powell, Gordon and McDermott, and I personally don't think he is, nor do the stats suggest that, he is absolutely not our future. White is beaten by all 3 in pretty much every key stat by all of them or at least one or two of them. So I'd be looking to finish up the Rugby Championship with some combination of McDermott, Powell and Gordon. I'd likely start Tate because IMO he's earned it over the 8 weeks of Super Rugby AU but the others have a case to be made for them too.

 

[DPY91]

How the fuck did I miss all this talk of Simone starting! He's a quality player but perhaps only marginally better than Hamish Stewart. It'd be crazy to start any of the Simone, Lolesio, Ikitau, Harrison. They are quality players but very obviously untested -- starting them against the All-Blacks would be madness. The only real young guns who might have a chance are the guys who have been clearly outstanding during SRAU -- so Philip, McReight, Wilson, Wright (Liam), McDermott, Petaia, Daugunu, & Wright (Tom). These guys were all outstanding during Super Rugby AU -- not the best in there position per se, but all were excellent during SRAU and so could have a chance to start.

Of those guys I'd say Tate is the most likely to start he's been so good at 9 he's almost gotta start. But obviously if Petaia is fit you'd love to have him in your XV. Daugunu has been in scintillating form before stalling a little bit in the Grand Final (likely the the Brumbies dealt with him very well). Obviously any combination of the Reds Backrowers could be in with a look.

I'd expect all of these guys and a lot of the young guys will get a run -- obviously depending on the form of SA & Argy, but I'd expect them to be quite limited. Some of the guys I could see getting game time against them would be Fa’amausili, Johnson-Holmes, Hosea, McReight, Swinton, Valetini, Wilson, Wright, Harrison, Lolesio, Paisami, Simone, Ramm, Wright & Maddocks.

I feel like Rennie would likely rotate up to about 6 of his 'young guns' into those easier games -- and I see little to indicate South Africa or Argentina will be anywhere near there best. Against the Argies you could potentially legitimately start a whole second XV or 'young' XV.

Why would it be "crazy" to start Simone or Lolesio, when you are advocating for McReight, Wilson and McDermott who are all equally green? To say the former (Simone/Lolesio) did not perform to the same standard as the latter is crazy in its own right -- considering they won the title and Lolesio's achievements as MOTM.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Because McReight, Willson and McDermott all have been in fairly imperious form -- McReight was more than double the next player in pilfers; Willson has been arguably our best ball-running option and undoubtedly our best option in the squad; and McDermott has been pretty unarguably the best halfback across the whole comp perhaps other players have had better patches of form or better at specific aspects of there game, but all in all McDermott is probably the best 9 in the comp.

Simone was far from our best 12 (To'omua, O'Connor and Hodge would all likely be ahead of him) - don't get me wrong he was good but he wasn't exceptional. No one watch the SRAU and said after games 'wow that Simone kid has gotta be in the Wallabies' McDermott did that after most his games. Being overly fair Simone is probably around the same level as Stewart and nether of them really set the world on fire. You even look at someone like Petaia not a lot of game time but in his limited involvement he's had a disproportionate impact on the games. Simone is a 'fine' player but he's just a fine player.


As for Lolesio, he played well for ... 2 games then a grand final. Yes playing well in a finals counts for something, but so does playing consistently well week in week out, a player needs a body of work and Lolesio has none, had he played all of SRAU at that level then maybe you could justify picking him but he only played 2 games and a grand final. It's not SUPER hard to have one or two good games, it's quite possible Lolesio has a massive hole in his game that has yet to be exposed because he's just not played at that level. Beyond that what we saw from Lolesio IMO at least has him probably slightly below O'Connor but slightly above Harrison. But ultimately, we've not seen enough to pick him at 10 game one in New Zealand.

I'm all for getting our young kids some burn (you can look at my previous comments over the years I VERY much am), but I'm also for not throwing them to the wolves. Guys like McReight and Willson IMO have the tools to perform at test level. McDermott has been the form 9 of the comp week in week out. While Simone has been ho-hum and Lolesio just didn't play enough. I would love to see Lolesio maybe come off the bench game 1 or 2 and probably given the starting job against South Africa but he's not 'taken' the starting job he's not said 'this is mine' granted because he's not had the opportunity -- he's done well with what opportunity he has had but ultimately he's not done enough. Plus we'll also have to have a look at Harrison too.

Even Daugunu a player nether of us brought up, he was/is the top winger of the comp all year, Wright was fairly close in attack but was largely absent in defense and some of the things Daugunu did were exceptional but I could see either starting but IMO Daugunu really took that jersey.

 

[TSR]

I dunno - I thought Simone was pretty exceptional. He certainly made me take notice a few times and I thought he was pretty consistent. I thought he was the best 12 in the comp but with the caveat that To'omua played mostly at 10. Also, Simone is not a kid. Likewise I thought Lolesio was the best 10, but I thought JOC (James O'Connor) was very good too. I questioned Lolesio’s place in the pecking order earlier in the year and I still think Harrison has lots of potential too - but Lolesio did everything he could to push his place IMO.

The difference is that Rennie has experienced test players he can pick a lot 10 & 12 and give these guys a softer introduction further into the comp. This approach will help them reach their potential in the longer term and it gives us a better chance of initial success too IMO as well experience is vital at test level.

The same could be said for McDermott behind White - and despite my earlier post I can see why Rennie would go that way. I can also see the argument that White’s kicking game will be better suited at test level. Personally I just feel the case to pick White isn’t as compelling.

The one thing that definitely won’t happen (IMO) is 3-4 rookies all starting at once. I let seems highly likely to me we’ll have a rookie on the wing and, whilst he is an enormous talent, Petaia is still very green at test level. We may also have a less experienced fullback if DHP is out injured. Personally I still think they could pick one of McDermott or Simone, but maybe they won’t.

 

[rodha]

Why is White even in the conversation? He's done fuck all for the Brumbies this year. Joe Powell has continued to deliver. Meanwhile Jake Gordon single-handedly carried the Tahs in many games.

McDermott should start with Gordon on the bench.

 

[TSR]

Why is White even in the conversation? He's done fuck all for the Brumbies this year. Joe Powell has continued to deliver. Meanwhile Jake Gordon single-handedly carried the Tahs in many games.

McDermott should start with Gordon on the bench.

I’d be happy with that, but White is in the conversation because he is the only one with test experience and the first test is against the All Blacks, so we are assuming Rennie will want to balance the introduction of new talent. He also has the biggest kick of any of the half backs. I don’t have any issue with him being considered - and I won’t have a beef if he is picked to start.

I just think his credentials have been somewhat overstated by some and I do see him as a place holder rather than a long term solution.

 

[Rebels3]

White was just about the best no.9 in the premiership for a 2yr period. He came back and showed some great touches on extremely limited prep. He’s the clear option, Tate is the clear usurper and will be given every chance to blend into the team and dominate the position for the next 10yrs.

Powell is going to duke it out for a bench spot if someone is injured, given the PONI announcement earlier in the year it’s probably not to far of a stretch to say he’s 4th in line, also given how spectacular Gordon was in his 4 or so games he played.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Because McReight, Willson and McDermott all have been in fairly imperious form -- McReight was more than double the next player in pilfers; Willson has been arguably our best ball-running option and undoubtedly our best option in the squad; and McDermott has been pretty unarguably the best halfback across the whole comp perhaps other players have had better patches of form or better at specific aspects of there game, but all in all McDermott is probably the best 9 in the comp.

Simone was far from our best 12 (To'omua, O'Connor and Hodge would all likely be ahead of him) - don't get me wrong he was good but he wasn't exceptional. No one watch the SRAU and said after games 'wow that Simone kid has gotta be in the Wallabies' McDermott did that after most his games. Being overly fair Simone is probably around the same level as Stewart and nether of them really set the world on fire. You even look at someone like Petaia not a lot of game time but in his limited involvement he's had a disproportionate impact on the games. Simone is a 'fine' player but he's just a fine player.


As for Lolesio, he played well for . 2 games then a grand final. Yes playing well in a finals counts for something, but so does playing consistently well week in week out, a player needs a body of work and Lolesio has none, had he played all of SRAU at that level then maybe you could justify picking him but he only played 2 games and a grand final. It's not SUPER hard to have one or two good games, it's quite possible Lolesio has a massive hole in his game that has yet to be exposed because he's just not played at that level. Beyond that what we saw from Lolesio IMO at least has him probably slightly below O'Connor but slightly above Harrison. But ultimately, we've not seen enough to pick him at 10 game one in New Zealand.

I'm all for getting our young kids some burn (you can look at my previous comments over the years I VERY much am), but I'm also for not throwing them to the wolves. Guys like McReight and Willson IMO have the tools to perform at test level. McDermott has been the form 9 of the comp week in week out. While Simone has been ho-hum and Lolesio just didn't play enough. I would love to see Lolesio maybe come off the bench game 1 or 2 and probably given the starting job against South Africa but he's not 'taken' the starting job he's not said 'this is mine' granted because he's not had the opportunity -- he's done well with what opportunity he has had but ultimately he's not done enough. Plus we'll also have to have a look at Harrison too.

Even Daugunu a player nether of us brought up, he was/is the top winger of the comp all year, Wright was fairly close in attack but was largely absent in defense and some of the things Daugunu did were exceptional but I could see either starting but IMO Daugunu really took that jersey.

Red. Red. RED! Red is great, blue, white and gold is average to ho hum, everyone else is shit.

ZC I often get accused of unbridled bias supporting Brumbies players but I think you take the cake for favouring your own.

It won't be long before the likes of Wilson, Wright and McReight are regular Wallabies but similarly Lolesio, Simone and Tom Wright have the form to make it to the national team as well. Add in players like HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes), Bell, Harrison, Maddocks, Ramm, Hosea and Faumasili and its apparent that there are more than just good Reds coming through to the Wallabies.

 

[Derpus]

Why is White even in the conversation? He's done fuck all for the Brumbies this year. Joe Powell has continued to deliver. Meanwhile Jake Gordon single-handedly carried the Tahs in many games.

McDermott should start with Gordon on the bench.

First thing youve said that i agree with. Gordon or Powell with McDermott starting would be my preference.

Whatever way we go this is a clear area of dominance for the ABs. Smith is incredible. Id take him over Faf as best 9 in the world any day of the week.

 

[drewprint]

Red. Red. RED! Red is great, blue, white and gold is average to ho hum, everyone else is shit.

ZC I often get accused of unbridled bias supporting Brumbies players but I think you take the cake for favouring your own.

It won't be long before the likes of Wilson, Wright and McReight are regular Wallabies but similarly Lolesio, Simone and Tom Wright have the form to make it to the national team as well. Add in players like HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes), Bell, Harrison, Maddocks, Ramm, Hosea and Faumasili and its apparent that there are more than just good Reds coming through to the Wallabies.

Blind loyalty, bringing everything back to ones own team, and chipping away at rival players that directly compete against one of your own is pretty tedious hey,

 

[TSR]

He came back and showed some great touches.

Not meaning to single you out - but this exact comment is where I reckon a lot of us go wrong. Sure White did some good things, but he was mundane for big periods in between and the Brumbies were worse with him on the field. Picking guys on their highlights doesn’t cut it at test level. You may argue that was a case of him being underdone, but I’d argue that is the type of player he’s been through his career. It doesn’t cut it at test level and there is a reason he was rarely first choice. If we want a solid player who covers the fundamentals (nothing wrong with that) I’d prefer Powell to be honest. If we want guys with a bit more spark and have been playing consistently well - who admittedly have some work ons but nothing, IMO, which would make them a failure at test level - I’d prefer McDermott & Gordon.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Why is White even in the conversation? He's done fuck all for the Brumbies this year. Joe Powell has continued to deliver. Meanwhile Jake Gordon single-handedly carried the Tahs in many games.

McDermott should start with Gordon on the bench.

Umm white hardly played any games for the brumbies as was overseas for the most part

 

[Braveheart81]

The biggest thing that could hinder McDermott getting selected is his complete lack of a box kick.

It definitely places more pressure on clearances knowing that the halfback will definitely be passing back to a player standing deeper. It's clearly not a dealbreaker. We've had halfbacks before who haven't had much of a box kick. It will come down to how important Rennie perceives it as being versus the other qualities McDermott brings over and above the other candidates.