Wallabies 2023

[Braveheart81]

England have 7 professional Soccer leagues not to mention the most watch sports league in the world. Ireland have both Gaelic Football, Soccer and Hurling. France are the current Football World Cup Champions.

Past a pretty early age though there isn't competition for the talented players though.

There aren't exactly a whole bunch of English kids deciding whether they'll sign a pro contract with a rugby club or a football club. They have some competition from league but the profiles of the two sports in the UK are reversed and league is only really big in the north of the country.

Same goes for Ireland and France.

 

[Derpus]

Rubbish. Soccer isn't stealing talent from rugby.

Every country plays soccer; that's not a differentiating factor between countries' rugby talent pools.

'stealing' is a strong term but in the broader scheme there are probably pro soccer players that could've gone to rugby.

 

[qwerty51]

'stealing' is a strong term but in the broader scheme there are probably pro soccer players that could've gone to rugby.

Maybe but at a young age you'd decide whether you're going to be a pro soccer or pro rugby player, like 13 years or younger.

Like Braveheart said, it's about the top echelon of athletic contact sport talent choosing other sports over rugby. The other countries get the best contact athletes in rugby.

 

[Tomthumb]

The age is irrelevant. The point is all these other countries best young athletes aren't playing rugby either

 

[PhilClinton]

The point is all these other countries best young athletes aren't playing rugby either

Is that fact or opinion?

 

[Tomthumb]

Is that fact or opinion?

As an example, Scotland has 38,000 registered rugby players and 470,000 registered Soccer players

 

[PhilClinton]

Rugby is the number 1 sport in both Wales and NZ but Australia has more than 3 times the population of those two countries combined.

So if the argument is simply based on population - why aren't the USA destroying everyone?

 

[qwerty51]

The age is irrelevant. The point is all these other countries best young athletes aren't playing rugby either

The best athletes who gravitate towards contact sports are, that's the point.

No one cares about "registered players" it's a completely meaningless statistic that isn't consistent at all.

 

[Tomthumb]

Because t

The best athletes who gravitate towards contact sports are, that's the point.

No one cares about "registered players" it's a completely meaningless statistic that isn't consistent at all.

So, stats are completely meaningless, but your unverifiable opinion isnt?

Keep making excuses for rubbish rugby

 

[PhilClinton]

As an example, Scotland has 38,000 registered rugby players and 470,000 registered Soccer players

I'm not sure how that makes the NRL and AFL impact argument invalid though?

The best contact sports players are gravitating towards other codes in Australia. It's not just a numbers game, but also talent game.

It's very hard to prove or disprove anything we are arguing about here - but wouldn't you say it's a fair shout that if the top 5 athletes (again, this is subjective) from the NRL moved to rugby, the Wallabies would likely improve?

I'm not sure the top 5 soccer players joining the Scottish team would have the same impact.

 

[Tomthumb]

I'm not sure how that makes the NRL and AFL impact argument invalid though?

The best contact sports players are gravitating towards other codes in Australia. It's not just a numbers game, but also talent game.

It's very hard to prove or disprove anything we are arguing about here - but wouldn't you say it's a fair shout that if the top 5 athletes (again, this is subjective) from the NRL moved to rugby, the Wallabies would likely improve?

I'm not sure the top 5 soccer players joining the Scottish team would have the same impact.

No, I don't think they would to be honest

The Wallabies problem is not talent, it's a lack of game awareness and tactical understanding

 

[qwerty51]

No, I don't think they would to be honest

The Wallabies problem is not talent, it's a lack of game awareness and tactical understanding

Obviously, we can improve with what we have but at the end of the day, if you give the USA the best coach in the world and their players perform to their best ability every match - they're not going to win the RWC are they?

They don't have the talent in rugby.

Now, if the NFL didn't exist, they'd probably beat everyone by 100. Their "registered rugby players" probably are more than a lot of top 10 rugby nations.

This argument isn't so much about making excuses, it's more so that expectations need to be adjusted. The Wallabies should be ranked 7th-8th in the world with the status of rugby here. If anything, we overachieve. No one expects the Socceroos to be top 10 or even top 20 in the world. Given how popular basketball has become here and the talent we have in the NBA, there were expectations on us to get a medal at the last Olympics. Expectations should be realistic based on the game's popularity.

 

[Tah Man]

Rubbish. Soccer isn't stealing talent from rugby.

Every country plays soccer; that's not a differentiating factor between countries' rugby talent pools.

I've had Kiwis acknowledge if the NRL and AFL didn't exist, we'd smash them by 50 every game.

How many AFL/NRL players have seriously considered pursuing Rugby?

Probably less than 5 NRL players and zero AFL players. They aren't stealing much if any talent.

 

[qwerty51]

How many AFL/NRL players have seriously considered pursuing Rugby?

Probably less than 5 NRL players and zero AFL players. They aren't stealing much if any talent.

That's not the point at all? If there weren't professional opportunities in the NRL and AFL, how many of them would be in rugby?

All of the NRL ones I'd say and a fair chunk of the AFL players too.

 

[Tomthumb]

If anything, we overachieve.

This right here, is a straight up losing mentality

Ireland is the best team in the world right now. You're telling me that Ireland talent pool is so superior to Australia's?

Mack Hansen couldn't even make the Brumbies squad

 

[qwerty51]

This right here, is a straight up losing mentality

Ireland is the best team in the world right now. You're telling me that Ireland talent pool is so superior to Australia's?

Says who? SA and especially France would argue that heavily. France beat Ireland in the recent 6Ns.

Well done to Ireland recently but also they've never made it past the RWC quarters. I wouldn't be lauding them as some kind of success just yet.

 

[Tah Man]

That's not the point at all? If the NRL and AFL weren't professional opportunities, how many of them would be in rugby?

All of the NRL ones I'd say and a fair chunk of the AFL players too.

And if Soccer didn't exist England and France would thump us all.

Shame they all do, and from the looks of things all three codes aren't going anywhere

 

[qwerty51]

And if Soccer didn't exist England and France would thump us all.

Not Brazil, Germany and Spain?

 

[Tomthumb]

Says who? SA and especially France would argue that heavily. France beat Ireland in the recent 6Ns.

Well done to Ireland recently but also they've never made it past the RWC quarters. I wouldn't be lauding them as some kind of success just yet.

The fact that Ireland are even in consideration flies in the face of your opinion that poor little Australia doesn't have the talent of Juggernauts like Ireland, Scotland and Wales

 

[Joe Blow]

We are where we are and changing the coach is not going to help. We have a lot of young talent coming through, particularly at 10, and the future looks pretty good.
At times when you are short in a position for any given generation you either hold on to an older player who can still perform(like Sexton) or you throw a young up and comer into the roll too early. Rennie has done both. It was the previous two coaches who failed to bring a couple of decent 10s through and keep them around.
DR (Dave Rennie) has tried both approaches with limited success. It has to be said that the best rugby of DRs tenure has been played with QC (Quade Cooper) at 10 and Kerevi at 12. Both unavailable right now.
So we feel some pain in the short term but hopefully come out the other side of that better equipped.
Rugby Australia has a role to play as well. Walking away from Super Rugby and the NZ provincial sides will not help.