Wallabies 2023

[Dctarget]

Thought I'd have a crack at building a team off Reg's stats to see if the stats align with what we and the selectors think.

WALLABIES STATS XXIII
1.
2. Longeran
3. Fa'amausili
4. Canham
5. Frost
6. Gleeson
7. McReight
8. Wilson
9. Fines-Leleiwasa
10. Gordon
11. Nawaqanitawase
12. Stewart
13. Foketi
14. Toole
15. Kellaway
16. Vailanu
17.
18. Johnson-Holmes
19. Neville
20. Wilkin
21. J. Gordon
22. Kuenzle
23. Pulu

No loose heads received positive points

I summed the inverse ranking of each player, so Stewart got 1 in work rate, he gets 10 points. Petaia got 8 in disruptor he gets 3 points. Then I subtracted the Uh Oh ranking from their total. Honourable mention to Hodge & Van Nek who received -7 and -9 points each.

Caveats
- This rates all categories for all positions the same. For instance Hamish Stewart is easily the best centre off stats but that's all off a high involvement and good defense, he doesn't feature at all in the attacking rankings and maybe that's something you as a coach would want in a centre, so you' favour it more.

- These stats don't favour scrumhalves or props (props dominate the uh oh category). Fa'amausili was really the only prop who genuinely scored, same as Fines-Leleiwasa for scrumhalves. Assuming Ala'alatoa hasn't played enough, though interesting to see where is Slipper. Also where's Ikitau?

 

[stillmissit]

Biggest difference I can see between Gleeson and guys like Wilson and Valetini is in minutes per game. Gleeson has only played 80 once and averages below 60 minutes a game, while Wilson and Valetini are almost always playing 80 - Wilson has missed 10 minutes for a yellow card and Valetini came off at the 59th minute of one game, playing 80 in the rest of his starts. Playing a role based around limited minutes is always going to help Gleeson's impact comparatively (though it's a great impact).

I don't know why many here see Gleeson as the answer. He may well be but he needs to be able to play the 60 minutes and at the moment he is big bursts but with no continuity.
Agree that he has a solid future assuming he develops high performance for longer.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Good effort DCT. While those stats have identified a few (actually very few) who will undoubtedly make the squad, I reckon this actually proves how meaningless they are. Also, by the stats the Brumbies should be at or near the bottom of the Aussie contingent. LOFL.

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't know why many here see Gleeson as the answer. He may well be but he needs to be able to play the 60 minutes and at the moment he is big bursts but with no continuity.
Agree that he has a solid future assuming he develops high performance for longer.

He's fine. He's played 66, 67 and 74 minutes in three of his five games this season.

His average minutes are low because in round 1 he came off the bench and in round 10 he was returning from injury and was tactically subbed at halftime because they were easing him back in.

 

[qwerty51]

My RWC squad with a 19 / 14 split. Bracketed are next guys up if injuries occur.

LHP: Bell, Slipper, Gibbon [Sio]
Hookers: Porecki, Mafi, Uelese [Lonergan/Fainga'a]
THP: Tupou, Ala'alatoa, Pone [HJ-H]
Locks: Frost, Skelton, Phillip, Rodda [Richie Arnold]
Backrow: Valetini, Holloway, Gleeson, Wilkin, Hanigan, Wilson [Wright/Leota]
Scrumhalves: White, Lonergan, McDermott [J Gordon]
Flyhalves: Quade, Foley [C Gordon]
Centres: Kerevi, Ikitau, Foketi, Hodge [JO'C]
Outside backs: Korobiete, Kellaway, Wright, Petaia, Mark Na. [Pietsch]

Backrow was the toughest, thinking below. No room for midgets Hooper and McReight for me.

6. Holloway | Hanigan
7. Gleeson | Wilkin
8. Valetini | Wilson

Look at these stats, we stand no chance against Ireland, France, NZ & SA with small 7s.

Hooper - 1.82
McReight - 1.84
--
Wilkin - 1.87
Gleeson - 1.88

Kolisi - 1.88
Papalii - 1.93
Josh vdF - 1.88
Cros - 1.90
Jelonch - 1.95

 

[Dctarget]

My RWC squad with a 19 / 14 split. Bracketed are next guys up if injuries occur.

LHP: Bell, Slipper, Gibbon [Sio]
Hookers: Porecki, Mafi, Uelese [Lonergan/Fainga'a]
THP: Tupou, Ala'alatoa, Pone [HJ-H]
Locks: Frost, Skelton, Phillip, Rodda [Richie Arnold]
Backrow: Valetini, Holloway, Gleeson, Wilkin, Hanigan, Wilson [Wright/Leota]
Scrumhalves: White, Lonergan, McDermott [J Gordon]
Flyhalves: Quade, Foley [C Gordon]
Centres: Kerevi, Ikitau, Foketi, Hodge [JO'C]
Outside backs: Korobiete, Kellaway, Wright, Petaia, Mark Na. [Pietsch]

Backrow was the toughest, thinking below. No room for midgets Hooper and McReight for me.

6. Holloway | Hanigan
7. Gleeson | Wilkin
8. Valetini | Wilson

Like it except for a few things for me:
- Don't know what Hanigan brings that Leota doesn't
- I'd rather Longeran in there
- I think with Kellaway and Petaia there we don't need Hodge any more, take Perese

 

[rugbyAU]

Also going for a 19/14 split

LHP: Slipper, Bell, Gibbon
Hookers: Porecki, Lonergan, Uelese
THP: Ala'alatoa, Topou, Pone
Locks: Frost, Skelton, Phillip, Rodda
Backrow: Valentini, Holloway, Hooper, Samu, Wilson, Gleeson
Scrumhalves: White, Lonergan, McDermott
Flyhalves: Cooper, Foley, Gordon
Centres: Kerevi, Ikitau, Foketi
Outside Backs: Korobiete, Kellaway, Wright, Petaia, Nawaqanitawase

 

[rugbyAU]

Based off that I guess our best XV would look something like this;

1. Slipper
2. Porecki
3. Ala'alatoa
4. Frost
5. Skelton
6. Holloway
7. Hooper
8. Valentini
9. White
10. Cooper
11. Korobiete
12. Kerevi
13. Ikitau
14. Kellaway
15. Wright

 

[stillmissit]

He's fine. He's played 66, 67 and 74 minutes in three of his five games this season.

His average minutes are low because in round 1 he came off the bench and in round 10 he was returning from injury and was tactically subbed at halftime because they were easing him back in.

I am referring to his impact as well and he seems to me to put on a big show in the first 15 and slump from there. This is not what you want from a backrower, look at Valetini, Hooper and McRight they go the whole game. I would love to see a guy like him in the 7 jersey but not until he can make an impact during all his minutes.
PS how did he get measured over 80 mins in RR's analysis? Just asking.

 

[D-Box]

What's interesting from a Force is they only have one UH Oh player on both lists.

Spreading the uh ohs or just too consistent with our the big game breakering playd

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Yeah, it's an interesting one. I can't say I'm aboard the Valetini hype train - solid performer who can no doubt be influential at the international level, and who I fully expect to be given the 8 jersey, but I just don't see him as the standout performer that many here do. Likewise, maybe I'm not looking for it.

On Vunivalu, he has his moments throughout games, but can understand why the 'per minute' stats would do him no favours - particularly as he's only started really looking for work in the last couple of weeks

Over the last couple of years he has been the most consistently damaging forward in Test Rugby. I'm not talking down Super Rugby performances by any means because it's how we identify our Wallabies but certain players step up at the next level and some don't even with strong performances at Super Rugby. This is pretty common in sports like Cricket especially. Valetini rises to the next level even if he is sometimes quite in games for the Brumbies.

I haven't been the biggest Carter Gordon fan previously but those defensive stats are very impressive. There is every chance we see a game with Gordon and Foketi at 10,12 and I like it defensively. Nothing wrong with putting up a wall and forcing a team to kick it away or push them to the sidelines. I don't see Hamish Stewart as a Test Rugby player with the other players available.

 

[Braveheart81]

What's interesting from a Force is they only have one UH Oh player on both lists.

Spreading the uh ohs or just too consistent with our the big game breakering playd

I'd say an element of that is that Reg is only doing stats for Wallabies eligible players and the Force are starting up to four non-Wallabies eligible backs.

 

[stillmissit]

Eddie actually said he needs to "work harder"...

Eddie has limited ideas of what a decent backrower does and his England side had Underhill and I can't see anybody else worth mentioning.

 

[Slim 293]

Eddie has limited ideas of what a decent backrower does and his England side had Underhill and I can't see anybody else worth mentioning.

I'm going to blame Borthwick...

 

[fatprop]

Based off that I guess our best XV would look something like this;

1. Slipper
2. Porecki
3. Ala'alatoa
4. Frost
5. Skelton
6. Valentini
7. Hooper
8. Wilson/Gleeson
9. White
10. Cooper
11. Korobiete
12. Kerevi
13. Ikitau
14. Kellaway
15. Petaia

I think Kellaway or Wright will be the 15, I would have Kellaway as he is the most likely to take the best option most of the time, he will beat defenders in contact, kick effectively or get the ball to a support runner in a better position

Petaia would be Koro's back up in the squad I think

I can't see Wilson as a starting 8, his metres in contact (he either breaks the tackle or is tackled easily) and his workrate without the ball needs to be better and we then have the perennial balance question with Skelton playing lock - it means the backrow needs at least one quality lineout option. I don't think any of the above fit that criteria

 

[stillmissit]

Over the last couple of years he has been the most consistently damaging forward in Test Rugby. I'm not talking down Super Rugby performances by any means because it's how we identify our Wallabies but certain players step up at the next level and some don't even with strong performances at Super Rugby. This is pretty common in sports like Cricket especially. Valetini rises to the next level even if he is sometimes quite in games for the Brumbies.

I haven't been the biggest Carter Gordon fan previously but those defensive stats are very impressive. There is every chance we see a game with Gordon and Foketi at 10,12 and I like it defensively. Nothing wrong with putting up a wall and forcing a team to kick it away or push them to the sidelines. I don't see Hamish Stewart as a Test Rugby player with the other players available.

Ghost, agree with what you are stating and I'd like to add that an international team with a foundation built on solid D will always apply pressure on the opposition, regardless of how well they can throw the ball around. It's an old adage but 'It's hard to run with no legs!'.
Then if you get both in balance, which I think we have the potential to do, we can win a lot more than we have in the last 20 years.

 

[stillmissit]

I'm going to blame Borthwick...

Who brought in Ben Curry a better version? What are you flapping about anyway?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Over the last couple of years he has been the most consistently damaging forward in Test Rugby. I'm not talking down Super Rugby performances by any means because it's how we identify our Wallabies but certain players step up at the next level and some don't even with strong performances at Super Rugby. This is pretty common in sports like Cricket especially. Valetini rises to the next level even if he is sometimes quite in games for the Brumbies.

I haven't been the biggest Carter Gordon fan previously but those defensive stats are very impressive. There is every chance we see a game with Gordon and Foketi at 10,12 and I like it defensively. Nothing wrong with putting up a wall and forcing a team to kick it away or push them to the sidelines. I don't see Hamish Stewart as a Test Rugby player with the other players available.

I don't mind that combo one bit, especially in the medium to long term. Gordon has plenty of attacking tricks in the kit bag too.

 

[Wallaby Man]

One of the impressive things about Gordon and not just been a product of a ‘system’ is the rebels have been scoring points when an opposition is down a player. His creativity and ability to find a man in space is great. It might not seem like much, but I swear most Aus teams haven’t been able to capitalize on yellow cards etc, in recent years. If a team is a man down, he will punish you.

 

[qwerty51]

One of the impressive things about Gordon and not just been a product of a ‘system’ is the rebels have been scoring points when an opposition is down a player. His creativity and ability to find a man in space is great. It might not seem like much, but I swear most Aus teams haven’t been able to capitalize on yellow cards etc, in recent years. If a team is a man down, he will punish you.

That’s a strange comment after the Rebels struggled against 13 last week