Wallabies 2023

[Dctarget]

That Nic Bishop article is not good reading. Assuming this low possession game is here to stay for at least this year. Better see some results quick.

 

[Braveheart81]

The kicking game was both terribly executed and at times utilised when there was a better option available. It's really hard to judge it as a tactic when it was done so poorly.

 

[eastman]

history demonstrates that we aren't any good at the running game either, we sacked Cheika because of his want to run the ball too much

we essentially do OK, then get isolated and turn over the ball as we run out of ideas/structure/players - we get rope a doped

to play like Ireland takes years of learning the structures so it is imbedded into their DNA, and if execution - isn't perfect it is read turned over

Jones tried to get the wobs to play quicker, to get wins by not giving the defence time to reset, but we run out of ideas, we play one out the same way to a static runner - as we don't have enough ball runners in motion on other lines continually to put any doubt in the defender's minds.

so the one out runners eventually get smashed, our supporting blockers miss and another turnover

Did we really play any different from the way we played with Rennie? Just a lot worse?

 

[stillmissit]

history demonstrates that we aren't any good at the running game either, we sacked Cheika because of his want to run the ball too much

we essentially do OK, then get isolated and turn over the ball as we run out of ideas/structure/players - we get rope a doped

to play like Ireland takes years of learning the structures so it is imbedded into their DNA, and if execution - isn't perfect it is read turned over

Jones tried to get the wobs to play quicker, to get wins by not giving the defence time to reset, but we run out of ideas, we play one out the same way to a static runner - as we don't have enough ball runners in motion on other lines continually to put any doubt in the defender's minds.

so the one out runners eventually get smashed, our supporting blockers miss and another turnover

Fattie, I am not as down on the players as you are and I think they will and can play better. Another thrashing by the AB's will be the real litmus test. The proof of which will be whether EJ (Eddie Jones) can take his medicine and learn. I am hopeful rather than expecting.

 

[LeCheese]

The kicking game was both terribly executed and at times utilised when there was a better option available. It's really hard to judge it as a tactic when it was done so poorly.

Aside from the Reds' kicking performances against the Chiefs (more so in their win than the quarters), have any Super teams/players consistently displayed the kicking nous required for such a plan to be effective on the international stage? Maybe White?

 

[Tomthumb]

Aside from the Reds' kicking performances against the Chiefs (more so in their win than the semi), have any Super teams/players consistently displayed the kicking nous required for such a plan to be effective on the international stage? Maybe White?

Yeah nothing wrong with kicking at times, but there just seemed to be aimless kicks every time they got the ball and then no plan of how to defend from the kick which made life so easy for South Africa

 

[Drew]

Yeah nothing wrong with kicking at times, but there just seemed to be aimless kicks every time they got the ball and then no plan of how to defend from the kick which made life so easy for South Africa

Yep. And add to that a back three that will lose every kicking duel and a pack selected to be large to win the collision chasing endless kicks at altitude.

 

[Tomthumb]

Yep. And add to that a back three that will lose every kicking duel and a pack selected to be large to win the collision chasing endless kicks at altitude.

I hope Eddie has a plan B or this is gonna be a loooong season

 

[Braveheart81]

Aside from the Reds' kicking performances against the Chiefs (more so in their win than the semi), have any Super teams/players consistently displayed the kicking nous required for such a plan to be effective on the international stage? Maybe White?

I'm not sure. Regardless whether we opt for that tactic to that degree again our kicking needs to be a lot better. Box kicking and kicking for territory will always be an important part of the game.

White wasn't great. He kicked 14 times and few of them were good.

Cooper kicked 7 times, Hodge 3, Ikitau 1 and our back three only kicked 3 times between them.

More of the box kicks needed to be contestable.

 

[LeCheese]

It'll be interesting to see whether Aus A's strategy against Tonga is also kick-to-win, and if so, whether there's any standout performances. I know Campbell's kicking was key to that win over the Chiefs.

 

[Braveheart81]

It'll be interesting to see whether Aus A's strategy against Samoa is also kick-to-win, and if so, whether there's any standout performances. I know Campbell's kicking was key to that win over the Chiefs.

Tonga.

I imagine they'll play much more ball in hand. I'll be very surprised if they play a low possession game similar to the Wallabies vs Springboks. I also think we'll play a different game against Argentina.

 

[LeCheese]

Tonga.

Whoops, cheers - fixed

I imagine they'll play much more ball in hand. I'll be very surprised if they play a low possession game similar to the Wallabies vs Springboks. I also think we'll play a different game against Argentina.

Yeah that's my thought as well on both counts. There are definitely pros and cons for both sticking and switching, but Eddie's rhetoric seems to indicate he won't be afraid to shake things up week-to-week.

 

[fatprop]

Yep. And add to that a back three that will lose every kicking duel and a pack selected to be large to win the collision chasing endless kicks at altitude.

Pack too large?

Our two big French based locks play in probably the best comp in the world laden with massive humans and they continually kick the shit out of it

 

[stillmissit]

Tonga.

I imagine they'll play much more ball in hand. I'll be very surprised if they play a low possession game similar to the Wallabies vs Springboks. I also think we'll play a different game against Argentina.

Different coach in Jason Gilmore for Aus A and a better one I suspect. Will be an interesting game to watch re tactics and if Gilmore takes any notice of what EJ (Eddie Jones) did on Saturday night.

 

[Tomthumb]

Different coach in Jason Gilmore for Aus A and a better one I suspect. Will be an interesting game to watch re tactics and if Gilmore takes any notice of what EJ (Eddie Jones) (Eddie Jones) did on Saturday night.

Haha c'mon now

 

[stillmissit]

TT. I'm serious. I liked the tactics he employed in U20s and think he is a coach who can make the most of what he's got, as opposed to EJ (Eddie Jones) putting a plan in place, then expecting square peg players to adjust to his round hole tactics.

Unrelated but interesting quote from a preview of NZ v SA this Sat. This is what I believe happened in our game apart from the non-confrontational bit was kicking as opposed to sending the ball wide:

England, and Ireland and South Africa in 2018, had shown that the All Blacks were prone to drifting into a non-confrontational approach where they pushed the ball side-to-side, hoping that if they kept flinging the ball wide, something would happen.

That worked against Australia and a few other teams, but against the big power teams, it was a doomed approach as the All Blacks too often were caught behind the gainline and couldn’t find any means to advance.

The All Blacks have finally found that missing physical edge

Every time the All Blacks had the ball in Mendoza, they ran straight, hard and with real purpose - and it wasn’t just the forwards.

www.rugbypass.com

 

[Wallaby Man]

I'm not sure. Regardless whether we opt for that tactic to that degree again our kicking needs to be a lot better. Box kicking and kicking for territory will always be an important part of the game.

White wasn't great. He kicked 14 times and few of them were good.

Cooper kicked 7 times, Hodge 3, Ikitau 1 and our back three only kicked 3 times between them.

More of the box kicks needed to be contestable.

Back 3 only kicking 3 times is a big issue. Think that will change this week. I’d like to see Wright moved to the wing, he’s brilliant but just can’t help himself so against good teams can have brain farts and Kellaway to 15.

 

[Tomthumb]

TT. I'm serious. I liked the tactics he employed in U20s and think he is a coach who can make the most of what he's got, as opposed to EJ (Eddie Jones) (Eddie Jones) putting a plan in place, then expecting square peg players to adjust to his round hole tactics.

I think Eddie's Japan tenure was the definition of making the most of what you've got

I get that it was a dreadful start, but Eddie has coached the greatest upset in international rugby history, won a World Cup as an assistant coach and taken two other nations to World Cup finals

 

[Froggy]

Just a genuine question regarding the kick-chase, which most other top level teams seem way better at than us.
Is it because our chasers just don't make the effort? Is it because the kicks are just poorly timed and poorly placed? Is it because no-one is aware the kick is on and is in a position to chase? Perhaps some combination of all three? I'd be keen to hear other's take on it.

 

[Froggy]

Yes, TT he's done that. However, he previously took over a Wallabies side that held the WC, The Tri-nations (as the TRC then was), the Bledisloe Cup, the Cook Cup and the Mandela Trophy. By the time he left we had lost every one. He then went on to take the Reds to their first and only last place in Super Rugby!