Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
Yeah agree big time, I really liked bits and pieces of what he did, he took the ball to the line more, and straightened the carry but really needed that 2nd 5.
Wallabies v England in Melbourne, 18 June
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Yeah agree big time, I really liked bits and pieces of what he did, he took the ball to the line more, and straightened the carry but really needed that 2nd 5.
BarneySF
Bob Loudon (25)
Again, can't some of these other Ellas [my understanding is there are 3 of them FFS] pop on down to training aside from English training?
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Strewthcobber
Andrew Slack (58)
They did do well countering what was put in front of them.
Having said that, every international side should be able to make the tackles that they did.
What was most frustrating and concerning about last night is all that we did was test their tackling and not their defense.
Rugrat
Darby Loudon (17)
And those putting the slipper in to Cheika, who would be your choice for coach? Sure, this international season hasn't started well but his overall record is good. I'll concede he needs to come up with a less predictable game plan though. I reckon the England fans should still be reeling from the last RWC, they are a bloody good side and were poorly coached then. If not us they should have at least beaten Wales and advanced to the quarters.[/quote]
Chieka loves to talk about honesty and owning a failure and talks of taking scars to the next game. Well critizing his performance is in keeping with that mantra. He does it to his players so no fear doing it to him nor would it worry him. No one calling for a change in coach just that his style and therefore selection criteria created this outcome. He picked a team that focused on mobility, forwards spread across the park and one off dare I say league like attack. England counters it not once but twice. Score Eddie 10 Chieka 3
Chieka loves to talk about honesty and owning a failure and talks of taking scars to the next game. Well critizing his performance is in keeping with that mantra. He does it to his players so no fear doing it to him nor would it worry him. No one calling for a change in coach just that his style and therefore selection criteria created this outcome. He picked a team that focused on mobility, forwards spread across the park and one off dare I say league like attack. England counters it not once but twice. Score Eddie 10 Chieka 3
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
Bits and pieces do not win Test matches, Dave. Eddie knew what was coming, and took advantage of it. We have two halves and a full back who cannot kick. That means our attacking options are fatally limited against a good defence. Plus of course we cannot compete for field position, except by running with ball in hand. We saw how well that worked.
gel
Ken Catchpole (46)
There's no doubt they did.
What I'm angry about is Australian rugby players getting away with not fixing their deficiencies.
A simple draw and pass is beyond the ability of most Australian super rugby players. Why? It's a fundamental that we can't execute.
When we win a penalty, we rarely make any decent Territory off the kick compared to other nations. Why? It's a fundamental that we can't execute.
When we need to box kick, we often kick it too long or too short so the clearance and chase are ineffective. Why? It's a fundamental we can't execute.
If we need to slot penalty goals we often have to worry whether our kicker is going to have an off night, whilst our competitors seem to have guys regular as clockwork. Why? It's a fundamental we just can't execute.
The list is endless: the fundamental skills of the game are beyond the abilities of the Australian rugby players.
Is Farrell just naturally awesome at goal kicking, or does he practice it with a skills coach until he gets it right AND THEN CONTINUES PRACTICING IT AGAIN AND AGAIN TO MAINTAIN it?
Based on what I am seeing, the Australians do a short course somewhere in some skill set and then just assume that's enough and never practice it again.
I have no idea if that's t actually true, but there is significant evidence the hypothesis.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Has anyone in Australian rugby ever asked them?
G
galumay
Guest
In reflection of the cold light of dawn, we were beaten by a team who outsmarted us, and that's a reflection on both EJ (Eddie Jones)'s skill as a cocach and a really tight, committed and fit team.
We sorely missed Beale and Pocock, its hard to imagine all that ball and territory would not have led to tries in the second half with them on the paddock.
England's defence was incredible, the fact that they were able to maintain that level of intensity and accuracy in defence up to about the 70th minute is extraordinary. There was a moment around the 70 minute mark where you could see they were shot to pieces, they got a turnover, had no physical abilty to turn from defence into attack and were there for the picking, so what did Australia do, won back possession and in the next sequence kicked possession straight back, EJ (Eddie Jones) got his replacements on and the moment was saved - and the test lost.
We need a better captain, I have never rated Moore and once again his brain explosion cost us, he is hopeless at developing relationships with refs and doesnt appear to provide much leadership.
Joubert had a good game, managed the appalling surface and it's impact on the scrums well, gave the teams good direction about his expectations and let the game flow. Kept his cards in his pocket which makes for a fairer contest.
It looks like a long winter for the Wobblies, they may just have to approach it as a rebuilding season, try and find some more test quality players to bring on like DHP, put a few old nags out to pasture and build for the future.
All credit to England and EJ (Eddie Jones) for a terrific series win in Australia, they have transformed the team and certainly deserve their number 2 ranking, its good for the game to have a northern hemisphere team in the top 5 and wont hurt to dispel the myth that we are somehow the default number 2 that sometimes loses games we shouldnt.
We sorely missed Beale and Pocock, its hard to imagine all that ball and territory would not have led to tries in the second half with them on the paddock.
England's defence was incredible, the fact that they were able to maintain that level of intensity and accuracy in defence up to about the 70th minute is extraordinary. There was a moment around the 70 minute mark where you could see they were shot to pieces, they got a turnover, had no physical abilty to turn from defence into attack and were there for the picking, so what did Australia do, won back possession and in the next sequence kicked possession straight back, EJ (Eddie Jones) got his replacements on and the moment was saved - and the test lost.
We need a better captain, I have never rated Moore and once again his brain explosion cost us, he is hopeless at developing relationships with refs and doesnt appear to provide much leadership.
Joubert had a good game, managed the appalling surface and it's impact on the scrums well, gave the teams good direction about his expectations and let the game flow. Kept his cards in his pocket which makes for a fairer contest.
It looks like a long winter for the Wobblies, they may just have to approach it as a rebuilding season, try and find some more test quality players to bring on like DHP, put a few old nags out to pasture and build for the future.
All credit to England and EJ (Eddie Jones) for a terrific series win in Australia, they have transformed the team and certainly deserve their number 2 ranking, its good for the game to have a northern hemisphere team in the top 5 and wont hurt to dispel the myth that we are somehow the default number 2 that sometimes loses games we shouldnt.
waiopehu oldboy
Stirling Mortlock (74)
A few pages back someone was wondering what the result does to Australia's world ranking. There's a site for that:
http://www.lassen.co.nz/pagmisc.php#hrh
If my calculations are correct the updated rankings will be:
1. New Zealand 96.10 (were 1)
2. England 87.79 (3)
3. Australia 86.14 (2)
4. South Africa 86.03 (4)
5. Argentina 82.59 (5)
6. Wales 82.49 (6)
7. Ireland 81.96 (7)
IF England & South Africa both win by 1-15 next week, Australia would drop to fourth:
1. NZ 96.10
2. Eng 87.93
3. SA 86.32
4. Aus 85.00
A heavier loss would obviously harm Australia's rating points, but not their ranking: even if Argentina were to beat France by 15+ in both Tests, the highest their points can go is 83.20.
http://www.lassen.co.nz/pagmisc.php#hrh
If my calculations are correct the updated rankings will be:
1. New Zealand 96.10 (were 1)
2. England 87.79 (3)
3. Australia 86.14 (2)
4. South Africa 86.03 (4)
5. Argentina 82.59 (5)
6. Wales 82.49 (6)
7. Ireland 81.96 (7)
IF England & South Africa both win by 1-15 next week, Australia would drop to fourth:
1. NZ 96.10
2. Eng 87.93
3. SA 86.32
4. Aus 85.00
A heavier loss would obviously harm Australia's rating points, but not their ranking: even if Argentina were to beat France by 15+ in both Tests, the highest their points can go is 83.20.
KOB1987
Rod McCall (65)
Yeah I agree, I'm not saying he shouldn't be criticised or judged, only that he is generally a good coach who has been outmaneuvered so far this series. Calling for his head is unwarranted, the players need to take a lot of the rap too, if the game plan was executed properly we could well have won. I actually just saw this headline on the ARU site "I've got to really own that: Cheika".
Anyways, the cup is lost but we have a chance at redemption - next weekend and then at Twickenham on December 3. And in between that we have the RC, the Bledisloe and 4 other tour matches.
Onwards - I'm off the next weekend's game thread.
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
True,
I think we are missing a forward that bends the line in the 9 / 10 channel.
If everyone was on deck would Kerevi be 4th choice 12? (Beale, Toumua, Lilo), so to manage depth and versatility on the bench Lilo is 12 and we simplify our game.
What is not acceptable is the handling errors. Whilst we had most of the possession you'd expect us to have more, but the ratios do not stack up.
70% possession.
88% of the handling errors.
33% of the tries.
Dismal Pillock
Simon Poidevin (60)
sorry guys but Moore is not a captain's arsehole. unless cheap shots and biff are now leading by example. Hartley's gone the other way, and it's been the making of him.
A wildly mixed bag from Foley.
Joubert, great ref, great communication, blah blah, .... but what a hippie. I thought he was gonna give Hartley and Moore a fuckin hug at one stage. "Guys it's a dirty field so could we please not push in the scrums, those stains are a devil to get out."
Itoje toned it down, must've got the hard word from Eddie. "you dont need all that carry-on mate, just play the f**in game"
Really like that "Welcome to Country" thing at the start, even though Cyclo's nana rambled on a bit in her burl last week. Never heard one before
here's a transcript for those that missed it:
"As custodians of the land, we welcome the forked tongue foreigners and can guarantee their safety from the Coolangatta Ridge up to Old Lee Grant's hut. Anywhere beyond there and they'll be chased with knives. They are welcome to drink from either the boomerang-to-the-face well OR the dead dingo well for the entire duration of their stay.
Area Protocol dictates the white interlopers accept these eucalyptus leaves, to be placed inside of their shoes during ritualistic dance or sporting encounters to ward off evil spider spirits. If some of the leaves survive the contest, the Gods have been appeased and the visiting dancers may use the remaining leaves to wipe each other's bums at the centre of the dance arena, or AAMI park as you may call it today. This is in keeping with ancient local practices. Thank you."
Lots of woe in this thread but Aus didnt look too far off, get in one bloke who can kick for territory (haha, Ford, it7s ALL he did out there) a few thousand wet weather handling drills (Fardy, jesus) and she'll be right. England in that forxhole at Normandy trench D mentality wouldve flummoxed the NZ of last night too
A wildly mixed bag from Foley.
Joubert, great ref, great communication, blah blah, .... but what a hippie. I thought he was gonna give Hartley and Moore a fuckin hug at one stage. "Guys it's a dirty field so could we please not push in the scrums, those stains are a devil to get out."
Itoje toned it down, must've got the hard word from Eddie. "you dont need all that carry-on mate, just play the f**in game"
Really like that "Welcome to Country" thing at the start, even though Cyclo's nana rambled on a bit in her burl last week. Never heard one before
here's a transcript for those that missed it:
"As custodians of the land, we welcome the forked tongue foreigners and can guarantee their safety from the Coolangatta Ridge up to Old Lee Grant's hut. Anywhere beyond there and they'll be chased with knives. They are welcome to drink from either the boomerang-to-the-face well OR the dead dingo well for the entire duration of their stay.
Area Protocol dictates the white interlopers accept these eucalyptus leaves, to be placed inside of their shoes during ritualistic dance or sporting encounters to ward off evil spider spirits. If some of the leaves survive the contest, the Gods have been appeased and the visiting dancers may use the remaining leaves to wipe each other's bums at the centre of the dance arena, or AAMI park as you may call it today. This is in keeping with ancient local practices. Thank you."
Lots of woe in this thread but Aus didnt look too far off, get in one bloke who can kick for territory (haha, Ford, it7s ALL he did out there) a few thousand wet weather handling drills (Fardy, jesus) and she'll be right. England in that forxhole at Normandy trench D mentality wouldve flummoxed the NZ of last night too
Garry Owen
Chris McKivat (8)
I disagree that the problem is at no.12. That backline is one of the worlds best, potentially. We need a fly half with vision and skill to take advantage of it. For too long Foley has been going awol at vital times ( he gets sucked into rucks, etc), like when the opposition is in disarray. His failings have been hidden by having a second fly half outside him, to cover his failings. This becomes apparent when we run a steamroller at 12, rather than a playmaker. We need a 10 with the ability to organise our backline, and better vision in the kick/pass/run options than Foley.
T
Tip
Guest
Correct on both counts. Gits@10 is a terrible idea.
I don't think Cheika's overrated, I never rated him in the first place.
He's lost 8 out of his 19 games, with wins against America, Fiji & Uraguay.
Excluding them, he's got a 50% win rate against Tier 1 teams. When you look closely, it's a bleaker picture. Wales 2/2 (we haven't lost to them in a decade), England 1/4, Scotland 1/1, NZ 1/3, SA 1/1, Arg 2/2. Ire&Fra 0/1
He's being hailed the messaiah for beating England, Fiji, Wales, Scotland and Argentina at a WC. The reality is the Wallabies have lost just 3 games against Scotland, Fiji, Wales and Argentina combined in the past decade!
If you think about it, he's only had 3 performances to be proud of.
Two of those were in the meaningless Tri-Nations staged pre WC 2015, and the third was against England at the WC.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
BarneySF
Bob Loudon (25)
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
Great post Quickhands.
To put things in perspective, Think about Larkham back in the day. He could put in an accurate bomb, a cross field kick, kick to space out the back if needed, chip kick, And he didn't have a great amount of distance to his kicks.
He was considered a poor kicker in those days, but compared to Foley and the rest of the kickers in Aus he is miles ahead of them.
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