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Wallabies v Italy, Florence, Sun 13th Nov 12am AEDT

The Nomad

Dick Tooth (41)
Here's the decade of Aussie flyhalves for the u20s. Not like we've missed any gems.

2019: Will Harrison, Isaac Lucas, Lolesio (played centre)
2018: Lucas, Lawson Creighton
2017: Hamish Stewart, Jack McGregor
2016: Nick Jooste, Mack Mason, Jordan Jackson-Hope
2015: James Dalgleish, Paia'aua
2014: Jake McIntyre
2013: McIntyre
2012: whoever played flyhalf here I don't recognise. Maybe it was Godwin or Lucas.
2011: Ben Volavola
2010: To'omua - last time we had a proper test player
The scary thing on top of this is the lack of development from the 2020/21/22 while the 6 Nations were still playing Academy games and U20's. We have been standing still/ going backwards compared to the NH when it comes to develpoment at an age group level. When you throw in our Super Rugby squads being in Covid bubbles for most of 2020/21, it means your young development players aren't even playing much club rugby where they can at least gain valuable game time against quality opposing in a genuine match enviroment. Our young talent is just plain underdeveloped and lacking in match experience compared to other nations.

No NRC or U20's, plus Covid bubbles over the last few seasons has lead to our development players not getting enough game time. The U16/19 National Comp this year was a welcome step back towards age group development, just wonder what cost the lack of development has been since 2019.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Has there been anyone playing a lot better than Lolesio in Super Rugby? I don't watch a lot of the Aussie derbies but the only other name that comes up on the forums with any consistency is James O'Connor - and he is pretty much done.

I would have liked to have seen the QC (Quade Cooper) (Quade Cooper)/Lolesio relationship be managed better at Test level. If I remember this correctly, when Dan Carter was breaking into the ABs, he played a handful of Tests at 12 outside Merhtens. I think he also did so at the Crusaders. I think BB also played at 15 with Carter at 10 on a number of occasions.

Right now....who is mentoring Lolesio at Test level - fuck, even at Super Rugby level? There are probably guys who can just slot into Test level rugby without much needed from anyone else but some guys need that experience etc alongside them for a while.

I dunno....I just think that as bad as some may think Lolesio is (and I don't think he is has been THAT bad) - who else is there?

This is the reason why I don't think Rennie has hindered Lolesio's development by not playing him consistently. I believe part of the reason he doesn't play him as often is because he has brought in guys he can learn off and mentor him.

Hopefully Larkham can provide added mentorship to him next year.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Spot on. He's been the best of the Australian sides quite comfortably in my opinion so he kind of has to be picked.

Might be a bit of competition now if the Tahs keep heading in the right direction and can be injury free.

I think Harrison and Lolesio were pretty close in form in there breakout seasons, with Lolesio benefiting from being a team with a higher winning percentage. Rennie could have easily taken Harrison in the wider squad then.

Obviously the following years Lolesio was the clear form 10 with only JOC (James O'Connor) challenging him at times.
 

dru

John Eales (66)
Ok I'm going to put my thoughts on the team here and see what I thought across the board for this game.

Props
Sio should have been selected in the squad as Gibbon is at best a reserve loosehead, play him like you have across the other games as a reserve but with Bell out we should have had Sio here to start.
AAA didn't have his best day, probably start Thor next game but they are our two best so doesn't really Cabramatta..

Hookers,
FF (Folau Fainga'a) (Folau Fainga'a) what to do with this guy, he can be a star or a dud, not sure we can move on this tour but hopefully someone better next year. Lonergan is for the future but isn't there yet, not ready to toss him yet.

Locks
I actually think the 3 of them where our best players on the field Skelton / Swain and then Neville all put in good shifts pity about the rest of the team.

Backrow
Samu didn't do his starting role any favors and should slip back to the bench
Hanigan is pretty much a Holloway light probably just a backup six at the moment, and helps if Skeltons on the field
McReight played ok but is behind Hooper and it's pretty easy to see that after this game.

9 - Gordon and Tate both had pretty bad games. I've said it else where I think we win this if White is starting or finish this game. Neither showed much here to change my mind.

10 - What to do with Lolesio I think he probably hasn't done enough to earn a start, so its back to Foley this week, I'm not sure if I would pick him or Donldson against the Welsh. He hasn't kicked on yet.

Wingers - Wright copes it from this forum even if he has a good game, I don't think he was bad or good here same as Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) (Nawaqanitawase) both too many mistakes to go with all their good things... not much of an issue, going into the world cup it is Koroibete and Kellaway so once again doesn't matter they are just reserves. Petaia

Centres - Pasimai had one of his better games I think but he'd be 3rd for me behind Samu and Foketai for 12, Obviously Ikitau is our 13 for the moment, not sure who is his backup hopefully someone stands up this year.

Fullback - Not Jocks best game, one good one bad, deserves another go.

Dont think the reserves stood up enough to change the 1st team too much .. most players did more harm then good here.

Barring your thoughts on Wright, I agree completely. The flop here was coaching not players.
 

Tomikin

Steve Williams (59)
Barring your thoughts on Wright, I agree completely. The flop here was coaching not players.
Gordon's card really killed us they scored two tries in that period...

All I could think of is get off a winger and bring on Tate... You can't play without a 9. Petaia to come on after the ten and Donaldson to cover any injuries.
 

gel

Ken Catchpole (46)
Lynagh doesn't come up very often in any future 10 discussion. Is he playing much in matches, or just training? I saw that he was in the Reds dev squad, but I missed the games so have no idea how he went. Is he just not in the picture?

(I am not talking about him being 10 now btw, I'm just curious to know how he is going)
 

Joe Blow

Greg Davis (50)
Gordon's card really killed us they scored two tries in that period...

All I could think of is get off a winger and bring on Tate... You can't play without a 9. Petaia to come on after the ten and Donaldson to cover any injuries.

I have said it before. He is not suited to test footy. That card was a killer but once again his stalling play snuffed out a lot of opportunity.
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
Gordon's card really killed us they scored two tries in that period...

All I could think of is get off a winger and bring on Tate... You can't play without a 9. Petaia to come on after the ten and Donaldson to cover any injuries.

You certainly need to make a change if there is a red card but a yellow? I don't think so. It's only 10 minutes. We should have just used McReight at 10. We caused ourselves issues by having our fullback out of position.

Everything about that 10 minute period was handled poorly.
 

Wilson

Mark Loane (55)
Lynagh doesn't come up very often in any future 10 discussion. Is he playing much in matches, or just training? I saw that he was in the Reds dev squad, but I missed the games so have no idea how he went. Is he just not in the picture?

(I am not talking about him being 10 now btw, I'm just curious to know how he is going)
Played colts this year and got a bit of time in the challenger series and in Japan. Looks like a proper 10 with a big boot and a feel for controlling a game, but he's got a ways to go yet. I expect he'll get a bit of game time in super this year but mostly be off with the under 20s. Assuming O'Connor moves on after the world cup he should then start to get good time through 2024. As far as the wallabies go I don't think he'll be in the conversation until after the Lions series at least.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Played colts this year and got a bit of time in the challenger series and in Japan. Looks like a proper 10 with a big boot and a feel for controlling a game, but he's got a ways to go yet. I expect he'll get a bit of game time in super this year but mostly be off with the under 20s. Assuming O'Connor moves on after the world cup he should then start to get good time through 2024. As far as the wallabies go I don't think he'll be in the conversation until after the Lions series at least.

MOM in the 2nd challenger match. Was ace. But agree with Wilson, not a Wallaby contender for sometime
 

Tomikin

Steve Williams (59)
You certainly need to make a change if there is a red card but a yellow? I don't think so. It's only 10 minutes. We should have just used McReight at 10. We caused ourselves issues by having our fullback out of position.

Everything about that 10 minute period was handled poorly.
Yeah maybe, I was thinking it because of how much of a cluster fuck it was, and if we handled it better then maybe I wouldn't have thought, bring Tate on.

I'd still probably have gone for Tate with Petaia to come on after the 10, but it was just an absolute game-killer..
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
I'd still probably have gone for Tate with Petaia to come on after the 10, but it was just an absolute game-killer..

I don't think I've ever seen a team do that for a yellow card so would certainly be a first.

The standard is to get your openside to play 9. They can join the breakdown if required and largely you're not trying to do anything particularly expansive for those 10 minutes.

We conceded two tries during those 10 minutes. That would seem more about how we structured ourselves in defence rather than not being able to play with the ball effectively.
 

stillmissit

Vay Wilson (31)
MOM in the 2nd challenger match. Was ace. But agree with Wilson, not a Wallaby contender for sometime
Tom Lynagh is 19, in Larkhams first year as a Wallaby fullback he was 22 and 23 in his first 10 role. So he could be good to go in 3 years if his development continues. In our current situation, we need to focus on the young 10s we have to ensure they get the best training and coaching so they are good enough to go as soon as possible. ATM we are likely to be in a desert with no obvious 10 to take us into 2024.
 

The Ghost of Raelene

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Just glad hes been playing footy.

Not sure what the Reds situation may be by the end of the year in regard to 10. JOC (James O'Connor) may be done or head overseas, I quite liked what Creighton was doing last year but after that I'm not sure who's in line. He may be 1 injury away from Super Rugby by the time he's 21. A lot to happen before he's genuinely spoken about any higher.
 

Tomikin

Steve Williams (59)
Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) looking at starting against Ireland, I'd suggest this probably (at a guess) that Campbell is out and Kellaway is going to fullback, or to 0 the joy of the masses here... Wright to be dropped.
 

Derpus

David Wilson (68)
Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) (Nawaqanitawase) looking at starting against Ireland, I'd suggest this probably (at a guess) that Campbell is out and Kellaway is going to fullback, or to 0 the joy of the masses here... Wright to be dropped.
IMO dropping Wright to 23 is the best option but I suspect its Campbell who will be giving way.
 

Tomikin

Steve Williams (59)
IMO dropping Wright to 23 is the best option but I suspect its Campbell who will be giving way.
I think I read Campbell might be out injured HIA or something.. but to be fair I haven't been following it that closely.
 

stillmissit

Vay Wilson (31)
Just glad hes been playing footy.

Not sure what the Reds situation may be by the end of the year in regard to 10. JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) may be done or head overseas, I quite liked what Creighton was doing last year but after that I'm not sure who's in line. He may be 1 injury away from Super Rugby by the time he's 21. A lot to happen before he's genuinely spoken about any higher.
Brad Thorn could have done a better management job and kept Carter Gordon. The 10 issues have been hanging over most Super Rugby teams.
 

Wilson

Mark Loane (55)
Brad Thorn could have done a better management job and kept Carter Gordon. The 10 issues have been hanging over most Super Rugby teams.
Not sure that one was on Brad, if it was the fault of someone in the Reds organization it lands at the feet of Cordingley, but even then I'm not sure he shoulders too much of the blame. Either way it's getting pretty off topic at this stage.
 
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