Wallabies v Lions Game 2 MCG 26 July

[Yoda]

Interesting comments re Lynagh BR which I tend to agree with. I appreciate it was his first Test start but I thought he had no impact on the game whatsoever. Supposedly selected for his superior kicking game, he missed his only conversion, missed a crucial touch finder, gained minimal distance with his line kicks and many of his general kicks were too deep. But most importantly, as you mention, he failed to ignite his backline. Any chance we had to win the game was by attacking the spaces provided out wide. Most of the time he simply shovelled the ball whilst standing still. A lot of hype around him but yet to be convinced.

He's a boy v men and massively overrated.

 

[JRugby2]

Wilson was one of our best and he can go for 80. I would actually bring in Valetini at 6 and put CDC on the bench. He does not quite have Gleesons running game but his defence was mammoth. He is also a legitimate lineout target and can cover 6/7/8. Gleeson is off OS soon and CDC looks like he belongs.

If NCDC isn't starting I don't think he plays, especially after the performance of Tizzano off the pine.

Half expecting a 6-2 bench with Gleeson wearing 21 to add more starch. That could also be NCDC's jersey.

 

[Joe Blow]

He's a boy v men and massively overrated.

Thats very harsh. His kicking game is better than Donaldson and Lolesios. He reads the play better than both and his passing is equal to Donaldsons and better than Lolesios. Donaldson can run but rarely does. Joe keeps going on about Lynagh innate toughness and commitment. Lolesio has a some of it and Donaldson very little. Donaldson is more suited to late in the game when it has opened up. So who would you have in there instead Yoda? JOC (James O'Connor)? Donaldson has had his chances.

 

[BDA]

the suggestion of getting rid of McReight is crazy. I re-watched the game last night. the guy was at every second ruck. In the first half alone he effected 2 turnovers; one on our try line. I feel pretty confident in saying we would have got beaten by more if he wasn't in the side.

I frankly think its crazy how many people on here are acting like half of our starting side are now useless and were never good and should be replaced. Man for man it's not really possible for us to match the Lions' selection, given the amount of world class players they have to choose from. All we can do is play our best side to suit the game we want to play. The idea of just cramming as many big ball running forwards into the team at the expenses of everything else ain't the answer.

Having just re-watched the game, it was noticeable that the Lion's line speed slowed considerably as the game went on. Had we not been so poor in the opening half, we could have been a genuine chance. Our execution was just shit.

I'm ok with a few tweaks to the side (Valetini in particular), but continuity and cohesion is our best chance.

 

[Joe Blow]

If NCDC isn't starting I don't think he plays, especially after the performance of Tizzano off the pine.

Half expecting a 6-2 bench with Gleeson wearing 21 to add more starch. That could also be NCDC's jersey.

We cannot carry 2 x 7s in the 23. Tizzano did go very well but a bigger body is preferable. He is competing with McReight for a starting spot. Valetini is short of a gallop and is unlikely to go the full 80. I think Hooper was excellent and will likely retain his bench spot even if Skelton starts.

 

[Major Tom]

We cannot carry 2 x 7s in the 23. Tizzano did go very well but a bigger body is preferable. He is competing with McReight for a starting spot. Valetini is short of a gallop and is unlikely to go the full 80. I think Hooper was excellent and will likely retain his bench spot even if Skelton starts.

Agreed. McReight and Wilson go the full 80. Gleeson and Hooper on the bench replace Bobby V and one of the 2nd rowers respectfully. I would be telling Valetini to go hell for leather for 60mins. I support CDC playing when Gleeson and Hooper go offshore next year.

 

[Brumby Runner]

He's a better ball runner and hits harder in defence. Just what we need against this conglomerate opposition.

 

[Slim 293]

I expect...

- minimal unforced changes
- the players who only missed out last week due to injury to return, so Valetini straight back into the starting side, possibly Skelton too, and Gleeson to the bench
- 5/3 bench, with CDC, Tizzano, and potentially Hooper to miss out

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Bobby V and Gleeson should give us a reasonable amount of punch from a ball running POV and I like starting with Skelton and Hooper on the bench.

It gives us options depending on the state of the game.

 

[CoachN]

I'm actually not really too down on the players after the first test. But Schmidt and Lord are going to have to admit quickly that they got selection and tactics wrong. If they do, it's not actually going to take much to put out a team with much more cohesion, combinations and a coherent game plan. The key take aways for me are
a) Ikitau and JAS are two of our most important attacking threats but we got absolutely fuck all out of them in Test 1 because Lenny was sent rocketing into the rush defence off set piece in most of our starter plays, and Su was skip passed to Potter or Jorgo who just are never going to make something out of a 1-on-1 or 2-on-2 against these guys. Such a waste. They would be much more effective both one further out, where their feet/power and offloads are actually more likely to turn half chances into linebreaks and points.
b). If you want to start Lynagh I think that's ok but make it easy for him to do what they did well at the Reds in attack this year (when they were on song) by picking their whole attacking axis 7-12. The Wallabies on attack used the 12 to go route 1 on the first phase of a starter play which is fine. We also need to go at them with line speed and big hits (see what the tahs and Brums were able to do). Paisami is an obvious, fit and servicable solution for this. Sure, he had a stop-start and injury interrupted year since the Spring tour (though so did Jorgo etc.) but for the role they seem to want/need, he'd do more than adequate job.
c) If we don't get some gain line success early we're fucked. Guys coming back from injury will help, but we don't have the luxury of not starting our best ball runners.
d) We have enough flexibility in our centres and back 3 players that we could go a 6-2 and use a bomb squad of our own to keep the pressure on these guys across the 80.

I'd go
1. Bell
2. Pollard
3. AAAA
4. Frost
5. Skelton
6. Valetini
7. McReight
8. Wilson
9. Tate
10. Lynagh
11. Jorgensen
12. Paisami
13. Ikitau
14. Sua'ali'i
15. Wright

16. Faessler
17. Slipper
18. Tupou (or Robbo, whatever)
19. Williams
20. Hooper
21. Tizzano
22. Gordon (covers wing)
23. Donaldson (covers 10/15)

None of these are hard changes, but it would completely change the picture for next week.

Just drop slipper and move Robbo into loose head. and Tupou or Nongor at least the can get up off the ground. Slipper looks like his knees are shot. otherwise I think you have nailed it.

 

[Major Tom]

I don't see us not starting with the preferred backrow from last year of Valetini/McReight/Wilson...

Gleeson can really make an impact coming on in the second half, but I would be bringing off Wilson for him, and not Valetini.

I’m not sure Bobby will get through the 80. His last game was a while ago. For me Gleeson is there to do what Valetini does for the first 60.

 

[Major Tom]

I expect...

- minimal unforced changes
- the players who only missed out last week due to injury to return, so Valetini straight back into the starting side, possibly Skelton too, and Gleeson to the bench
- 5/3 bench, with CDC, Tizzano, and potentially Hooper to miss out

I like CDC but he’s behind Gleeson and hooper in the pecking order. They were after all our best forwards in super rugby for a reason. And the only reason he was there was because both Bobby and langi were ruled out. Tizzano has played well this year but there’s just no need to play him when McReight goes all game. And if he goes down Hooper can cover him.

 

[Ignoto]

5/3 bench, with CDC, Tizzano, and potentially Hooper to miss out

I think given Hooper covers both 4, 5 and 6, he should be on the bench. I don't think Williams and to a certain extent, Frost did enough to warrant holding their spot. We really needed one of them to put in a shift and both didn't really bend the line at all.

Swain would have been nice to absolutely belt Russell's ribs.

 

[TSR]

Just drop slipper and move Robbo into loose head. and Tupou or Nongor at least the can get up off the ground. Slipper looks like his knees are shot. otherwise I think you have nailed it.

I thought Slipper was pretty good.

At the end of last year I thought his international career was done and he got picked a couple of times that I didn’t think he should have. But his super form this year was much better and I thought he put in a decent shift on the weekend.

 

[Hogan]

Thats very harsh. His kicking game is better than Donaldson and Lolesios. He reads the play better than both and his passing is equal to Donaldsons and better than Lolesios. Donaldson can run but rarely does. Joe keeps going on about Lynagh innate toughness and commitment. Lolesio has a some of it and Donaldson very little. Donaldson is more suited to late in the game when it has opened up. So who would you have in there instead Yoda? JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor)? Donaldson has had his chances.

Poor form to question player’s toughness and commitment when they’re playing at the highest level. Every player that steps onto the field has it in spades. But easy I guess when you’re commenting from your lounge room.

 

[Jumping_jack]

Thats very harsh. His kicking game is better than Donaldson and Lolesios. He reads the play better than both and his passing is equal to Donaldsons and better than Lolesios. Donaldson can run but rarely does. Joe keeps going on about Lynagh innate toughness and commitment. Lolesio has a some of it and Donaldson very little. Donaldson is more suited to late in the game when it has opened up. So who would you have in there instead Yoda? JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor)? Donaldson has had his chances.

If you watch the game none of those skills you highlight were executed on the weekend.

He missed a kick for touch.
He missed a kick for goal.
He missed the mark for a chip kick.
He missed the mark for a cross field kick.
He missed the mark for his mid field bomb.

He can’t pass left to right.

And his toughness, do people say this because he gets his head in terrible positions while tackling and doesn’t break something each time he goes into contact? Because other than that I don’t see how he gets the toughness moniker. Even his team mates are over the fact he barely trains because he always has a niggle.

What did he show in the weekend? He isn’t up to the standard we require. At least Donaldson came on and showed how to pass kick and run. Praying we see some sense.

 

[Joe Blow]

Poor form to question player’s toughness and commitment when they’re playing at the highest level. Every player that steps onto the field has it in spades. But easy I guess when you’re commenting from your lounge room.

Maybe. Donaldson is the most gifted athletically but his application has fallen short when given opportunity so far. There are reasons why Lynagh has leapfrogged him in the order and Joe keeps coming back too his commitment, calm under pressure etc etc.

 

[Joe Blow]

If you watch the game none of those skills you highlight were executed on the weekend.

He missed a kick for touch.
He missed a kick for goal.
He missed the mark for a chip kick.
He missed the mark for a cross field kick.
He missed the mark for his mid field bomb.

He can’t pass left to right.

And his toughness, do people say this because he gets his head in terrible positions while tackling and doesn’t break something each time he goes into contact? Because other than that I don’t see how he gets the toughness moniker. Even his team mates are over the fact he barely trains because he always has a niggle.

What did he show in the weekend? He isn’t up to the standard we require. At least Donaldson came on and showed how to pass kick and run. Praying we see some sense.

I am not a selector or coach but those ex-players and coaches commenting just about all seem to think he went well considering the circumstances and Joe Schmidt is widely considered one of the best rugby brains going around. I concede to them.
I would love to see Donaldson come through and take the spot for his own but so far, albeit with limited opportunity, we have not seen anything to suggest it will happen. Very happy to be proven wrong in the next couple of months.

 

[Jumping_jack]

Maybe. Donaldson is the most gifted athletically but his application has fallen short when given opportunity so far. There are reasons why Lynagh has leapfrogged him in the order and Joe keeps coming back too his commitment, calm under pressure etc etc.

When he was given the opportunity he didn’t take it?

Like his man of the match performance in the World Cup in 2023, or leading the team to beat Wales in his first test?

Everyone highlights the Fiji game as though there aren’t other examples of when he has performed where we needed him to for us to win.

 

[Jumping_jack]

I am not a selector or coach but those ex-players and coaches commenting just about all seem to think he went well considering the circumstances and Joe Schmidt is widely considered one of the best rugby brains going around. I concede to them.
I would love to see Donaldson come through and take the spot for his own but so far, albeit with limited opportunity, we have not seen anything to suggest it will happen. Very happy to be proven wrong in the next couple of months.

He has performed for some games. But he hasn’t been given the chance to consistently be in that role for the Wallabies. He showed when he came on that he was a level above what we had on the field. I have no doubt the halfback delivery was better as well.