Wallabies v Springboks - Suncorp, Brisbane, 10th September 2016
- Thread starter KOB1987
- Start date
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waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
Bokke will be minus Ruan Combrinck (fractured fibula, out for up to six weeks) & possibly Elton Jantjies (groin strain, having scans to determine how bad).
http://www.planetrugby.com/news/injuries-add-to-springbok-woes/
http://www.planetrugby.com/news/injuries-add-to-springbok-woes/
G
galumay
Guest
Really?! So you are the arbitrater of what I can discuss about this game?
If we fail to explore, acknowledge and discuss the causes for our sustained underperformance then how can you expect to understand it?
Its more relevant than posts by couch coaches picking their fantasy teams which tend to fill these threads!
G
galumay
Guest
Will be big losses for the Boks, Combrinck has been fantastic and Janjies seems to be growing into the game too.
dru
Tim Horan (67)
No bloke I am not an arbiter, just trying to keep on track. Which btw the "couch coaches" are, with or without their fantasy teams.
Personally I welcome anything you have to say, actually about the game.
Hi. I am the arbiter of what is discussed, to a point.
If you want to debate grassroots, there are threads for that, and feel free to go hard. If you want to specifically discuss this next Test, that is the topic here.
So, what dru said.
As you were.
G
galumay
Guest
So we are not allowed to discuss the reasons for our performance in recent tests and its effect on future games?
Thanks for letting me know, can you just help me by fully explaining the rules about which subjects pertaining to the next test are allowed to be discussed?
I dont want to upset anyone else by trying to discuss issues relating to the next test that are not allowed.
I guess I can always add to the couch coach fantasy team posts, apparently they are relevant!
EDIT - It might pay you to go back and read the original post that so offended dru, its hard to imagine any reasonable person having an issue with my thoughts about the test that is the subject of this thread. It certainly wasnt a post about the 'grass roots' of the game - just contained a passing reference in the context of the upcoming test and the likely result.
Thanks for letting me know, can you just help me by fully explaining the rules about which subjects pertaining to the next test are allowed to be discussed?
I dont want to upset anyone else by trying to discuss issues relating to the next test that are not allowed.
I guess I can always add to the couch coach fantasy team posts, apparently they are relevant!
EDIT - It might pay you to go back and read the original post that so offended dru, its hard to imagine any reasonable person having an issue with my thoughts about the test that is the subject of this thread. It certainly wasnt a post about the 'grass roots' of the game - just contained a passing reference in the context of the upcoming test and the likely result.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
OK so we've got ?Owens? for the ref and its NOT the All Blacks. That's a plus.
The Boks are going to be hurting. Watching the highlights from their game, neither side had the line speed on defence the ABs had. Also a plus.
I'm thinking we try to build something here in terms of continuity. We need to really outsmart the Boks in Brisbane as we have done before BUT the niggle needs to be left in the quiver UNLESS they start it.
"Retaliate first" only gets us a reputation.
So, keeping in mind its in Brisbane, use the tactic of getting the QLDers deserving into the team:
1 Slipper
2 Moore
3 Kepu
4 Douglas
5 Coleman
6 Fardy
7 Pocock
8 Pick a fucking 8. Can we do that? Put Timani in there FFS!
9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 DHP
12 Foley
13 Kerevi
14 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15 Folau
16 TPN
17 Sio
18 Robertson - give him a shot
19 Skelton
20 Hooper
21 Phipps
22 TK
23 Hodge
The Boks are going to be hurting. Watching the highlights from their game, neither side had the line speed on defence the ABs had. Also a plus.
I'm thinking we try to build something here in terms of continuity. We need to really outsmart the Boks in Brisbane as we have done before BUT the niggle needs to be left in the quiver UNLESS they start it.
"Retaliate first" only gets us a reputation.
So, keeping in mind its in Brisbane, use the tactic of getting the QLDers deserving into the team:
1 Slipper
2 Moore
3 Kepu
4 Douglas
5 Coleman
6 Fardy
7 Pocock
8 Pick a fucking 8. Can we do that? Put Timani in there FFS!
9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 DHP
12 Foley
13 Kerevi
14 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15 Folau
16 TPN
17 Sio
18 Robertson - give him a shot
19 Skelton
20 Hooper
21 Phipps
22 TK
23 Hodge
Finished yet? I'm trying to keep threads on topic. It was a gentle nudge. If that bothers you, or offends your sensibilities, bad luck.
HoldingOn
Alfred Walker (16)
His tackling is poor now as well
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Just for shits and giggles because I don't know how much difference it will make:-
1. Slipper
2. TPN
3. Kepu
4. Douglas
5. Coleman
6. Mumm
7. Hooper
8. Timani/Houston I don't know a real 8 not McCalman
9. Genia
10. Foley or Cooper don't care.
12. Kerevi
13. Folau
11. Mitchell
14. Hodge
15. DHP
16. Hanson
17. Sio
18. Robertson
19. Fardy
20. Skelton
21. Phipps
22. Cooper/Foley whoever doesn't start
23. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) back three and 13 coverage
Basically I want a 15 who can actually kick and actually does so and this has the advantage that Folau can be more involved. It has shitted me no end that DHP has been in the side for 4? tests now and hasn't been used as an exit strategy or even been in a position to be an option despite having a far bigger boot than anybody else in previous squads. Maybe Hodge will be used now FFS. Also Foley not to kick for touch ever again in any side he plays for. Missing touch from a penalty is just unforgivable with him doing at least once every game.
The twin playmaker shit is old. It has had some limited success but just doesn't offer a balanced side. Foley this year actually played his best game for the Tahs with Horne at 12.
Mumm has shown two weeks in a row that the lineout improves with him on and he actually makes metres in contact. Fardy has been down on form all year.
Moore gone altogether. Form is rubbish and captaincy has been poor as well.
On the coaching front I'd like to see the Wallabies have a total overhaul of the defensive pattern because what they have been using all year just isn't working against the ABs who beat it with ease and the English as well. Secondly I'd like to see Larkham sign with the Brumbies and F^%$ off from the Wallabies with the rubbish he calls attack. Since he came on board the Wallabies have gone backwards at a massive rate of knots. With 70% of the ball against England they did absolutely nothing with it and in both ABs tests again they offered absolutely no threat whatsoever.
I have stayed within the Squad for wingers and just think that Mitchell offers more on potential than AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).
Unless Larkham's attack pattern is dropped I doubt the Wallabies will score more than two tries. If the ineffective defence structure is kept as well two tries will not be enough and the Wallabies will lose by 12.
1. Slipper
2. TPN
3. Kepu
4. Douglas
5. Coleman
6. Mumm
7. Hooper
8. Timani/Houston I don't know a real 8 not McCalman
9. Genia
10. Foley or Cooper don't care.
12. Kerevi
13. Folau
11. Mitchell
14. Hodge
15. DHP
16. Hanson
17. Sio
18. Robertson
19. Fardy
20. Skelton
21. Phipps
22. Cooper/Foley whoever doesn't start
23. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) back three and 13 coverage
Basically I want a 15 who can actually kick and actually does so and this has the advantage that Folau can be more involved. It has shitted me no end that DHP has been in the side for 4? tests now and hasn't been used as an exit strategy or even been in a position to be an option despite having a far bigger boot than anybody else in previous squads. Maybe Hodge will be used now FFS. Also Foley not to kick for touch ever again in any side he plays for. Missing touch from a penalty is just unforgivable with him doing at least once every game.
The twin playmaker shit is old. It has had some limited success but just doesn't offer a balanced side. Foley this year actually played his best game for the Tahs with Horne at 12.
Mumm has shown two weeks in a row that the lineout improves with him on and he actually makes metres in contact. Fardy has been down on form all year.
Moore gone altogether. Form is rubbish and captaincy has been poor as well.
On the coaching front I'd like to see the Wallabies have a total overhaul of the defensive pattern because what they have been using all year just isn't working against the ABs who beat it with ease and the English as well. Secondly I'd like to see Larkham sign with the Brumbies and F^%$ off from the Wallabies with the rubbish he calls attack. Since he came on board the Wallabies have gone backwards at a massive rate of knots. With 70% of the ball against England they did absolutely nothing with it and in both ABs tests again they offered absolutely no threat whatsoever.
I have stayed within the Squad for wingers and just think that Mitchell offers more on potential than AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).
Unless Larkham's attack pattern is dropped I doubt the Wallabies will score more than two tries. If the ineffective defence structure is kept as well two tries will not be enough and the Wallabies will lose by 12.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
The English didn't either with Farrell but even with 70% of the pill the Wallabies could do nothing with two play makers. The two play maker thing is rubbish, there is no structure to the attack and the hard work that Beale does in support is missing and that is what has made it look good in the past.
tragic
John Solomon (38)
Cooper and Timani to start and I'd be pretty happy with that.
Lots of solid kicking options in the back 3 for once.
Maybe Arnold for Skelton if he puts in a solid performance this weekend.
Edit: just noticed no pocock - not happy Jan...
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
The diminishing of expectations is the mission of all concern trolls, galumay. If you were honest about not not being a Wallabies supporter, then your aguments might find more fertile ground.
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
We do have to try new things now, or else we'll continue to lose.
Moore is out of form and out of favour. Drop him.
Douglas and Coleman are actually quite good.
Give Timani a run. Who cares if he might not work? What's the worst that can happen? We lose?
9 and 10 are a major weakness, whoever we pick. Phipps is flaky. Genia is slow to clear the ball. Both can't pass, although Genia used to have a great pass. What happened? Maybe he can re-learn it. I'd personally put Powell in there and instruct him to copy Faf de Klerk, by passing everything with urgency in front of the chest of his runners. How hard can that be, if you're a professional rugby halfback, and it's the only thing you have to do in a game, and you know your future international career depends on it?
Neither Foley nor Cooper show any signs of being a first-tier international flyhalf at this time, although obviously both have in the past.
Folau to 13 is a must. It's the only tweak that has actual merit, at a time when tweaks are undeniably required. Kerevi must be persisted with. There's no reason at all to pick Kuridrani. Pick him when he starts running over people in regional rugby.
Hodge should be given a shot. Let's see if he has the right stuff. We're not exactly in a luxury situation.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) needs to retire from international rugby now. We were arguing his merits five years ago, when he was much better.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
The front row does need a bit of a shake-up. Slipper/Sio remain as LHPs; Moore to the bench or out of the 23, Kepu to remain as starting THP because there's no-one else, and Tom Robertson to replace Allan Ala'alatoa to let him concentrate on improving on the LH side. Slipper has probably earned a start over Sio.
Second row should have Arnold now on the bench, with Coleman and Douglas in the starting spots. Skelton to be dropped from the 23. He was no better when he came on in Bledisloe 2 than he has been all year. Not test standard.
Starting backrow should be Fardy, Pocock and Timani. Two extra lineout jumpers and one of the world's best playing in his best spot. Not rocket science.
Will and Phipps stay at 9. Quade looked a hell of a lot more comfortable and able at 10 that Foley has for a long, long time. Stays at 10. Foley probably to the bench as injury cover.
Mid field needs Kerevi at 12 to form a long term partnership with Quade. I'd be content with either Folau or Kuridrani at 13. TK can at least handle the defensive work required at 13 and has made more gains over the advantage line than most of our backs so far tried. I would not play Matt To'omua again this year because of the head knock issues he's been suffering. Giteau I believe has returned to France and that should be the end of his appearances with the Wallabies.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is almost certainly not available through injury and contract issues with Bordeaux(?). Let's just move on. Options are DHP, Hodge and Speight until Naivalu becomes eligible sometime in September. Morohan as cover.
No 15 then becomes a choice between Folau, if not 13, and DHP or Hodge if not on the wings.
I would have suggested Ready to replace Moore, but he was particularly unimpressive on Saturday at NRC level. Maybe needs more time and exposure at Super level before he gains test selection.
I see no need for Michael Hooper to be in the game day 23. No doubt he is our second best No 7 and will start there next year in Pocock's absence. But we don't need a specialist No 7 on the bench. McMahon offers a lot more versatility and as much aggression but closer to the ruck, as does MH.
On form to date, Mumm remains an option for the bench but I'm not confident about just how long his turn of reasonable form will continue.
Neither of the Bokke or the Pumas hit the breakdown with the ferocity and accuracy (Pushing the laws) as the ABs. They will not present anywhere near the test that the ABs do. I think our defense will not be tested nearly as much, and we ought to be able to get more clean ball at the breakdown. So I can see us in with a good chance of beating both the Bokke and the Pumas in coming weeks.
Second row should have Arnold now on the bench, with Coleman and Douglas in the starting spots. Skelton to be dropped from the 23. He was no better when he came on in Bledisloe 2 than he has been all year. Not test standard.
Starting backrow should be Fardy, Pocock and Timani. Two extra lineout jumpers and one of the world's best playing in his best spot. Not rocket science.
Will and Phipps stay at 9. Quade looked a hell of a lot more comfortable and able at 10 that Foley has for a long, long time. Stays at 10. Foley probably to the bench as injury cover.
Mid field needs Kerevi at 12 to form a long term partnership with Quade. I'd be content with either Folau or Kuridrani at 13. TK can at least handle the defensive work required at 13 and has made more gains over the advantage line than most of our backs so far tried. I would not play Matt To'omua again this year because of the head knock issues he's been suffering. Giteau I believe has returned to France and that should be the end of his appearances with the Wallabies.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is almost certainly not available through injury and contract issues with Bordeaux(?). Let's just move on. Options are DHP, Hodge and Speight until Naivalu becomes eligible sometime in September. Morohan as cover.
No 15 then becomes a choice between Folau, if not 13, and DHP or Hodge if not on the wings.
I would have suggested Ready to replace Moore, but he was particularly unimpressive on Saturday at NRC level. Maybe needs more time and exposure at Super level before he gains test selection.
I see no need for Michael Hooper to be in the game day 23. No doubt he is our second best No 7 and will start there next year in Pocock's absence. But we don't need a specialist No 7 on the bench. McMahon offers a lot more versatility and as much aggression but closer to the ruck, as does MH.
On form to date, Mumm remains an option for the bench but I'm not confident about just how long his turn of reasonable form will continue.
Neither of the Bokke or the Pumas hit the breakdown with the ferocity and accuracy (Pushing the laws) as the ABs. They will not present anywhere near the test that the ABs do. I think our defense will not be tested nearly as much, and we ought to be able to get more clean ball at the breakdown. So I can see us in with a good chance of beating both the Bokke and the Pumas in coming weeks.
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