Wallabies vs England, Sydney, 3rd Test, 25 June @ 8:00pm

[Mr Doug]

Question to all you former-backs: What impact do you feel Andrew Johns has had with his coaching of England's back line?

 

[Sully]

Phipps should be on the bench . Give frisby the start

I don't think Frisby is there yet.

 

[Pfitzy]

I don't think Frisby is there yet.

Aw come on! That's one of the least crazy selections in this thread! At least he's in the right position.

 

[Pfitzy]

Question to all you former-backs: What impact do you feel Andrew Johns has had with his coaching of England's back line?

I'll bet they can run a line better than ever.

 

[Mr Doug]

I'll bet they can run a line better than ever.

I meant on-field, Pfitzy!!!

 

[Viking]

I don't think Frisby is there yet.

Phipps ain't there yet either.

 

[Viking]

Our main problem in this series is that we are missing quite a few established players from the RWC squad. Douglas, Genia, Giteau, Beale, Tomane, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and there are others and we are now missing Pocock.
We switch our mode of play away from the 2nd playmaker and we try and replace the other missing spots.
Suggesting that Hooper, Moore, Phipps and Foley should go and dropping Simmons is ridiculous. We will end up with a vastly less experienced side that will just get walloped to round out the series.
They all need to be there and need to front up. I hope we shelve the KK experiment for now and play either Lilo or To'omua and Palu or Houston in place of McMahon. He is a decent bench option to cover the back row.
It is very important that we get a win looking forward to the RC.
A slight change of tactics to play through the middle a little would be good too. Earn the right to go wide. Simple stuff.

Why is dropping Simmons ridiculous, given he was dropped for Carter and he performed just as good if not better?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Far too few contributors to this thread are asking the question "Why, given the possession and territory stats, did we lose the last two tests?" The answer to that question lies in the performance of our attacking methods and skills.

Foley has copped huge criticism for his performance, but watching the game I felt only he and Folau were any chance of breaking the England defensive line. Can anyone remember the last time Kuridrani made a clean line break in a test? I certainly can't.

Our forwards tried hard, but we lacked genuine line-benders and off-loaders, particularly once we got into the 22.That has to be addressed.

Criticism of Fardy has been similarly misplaced, he was absolutely exhausted when he made the majority of his mistakes in the last 15 minutes. Given the workload we require of him, he has to be replaced before the end; or we have to rethink his workload. That means either a 6:2 bench split or we require more from our front five.

The desire to drop Hooper is similarly misplaced. The backrow non-performer was McMahon. Against the skillset that England brings McMahon was never going to be able to to make the breaks and half-breaks that had to be made to win. We didn't need energy at 8, we needed power.

Our best chance to beat England (not NZ, that's a whole different question) is a team that looks like this:

Slipper, Polota-Nau, Kepu
Horwill, Carter
Fardy, Palu, Hooper
Phipps, Foley
Horne, Kerevi, Folau, Nayaravoro
Haylett-Petty

Moore, Sio, Holmes
Skelton, Mumm, Houston
Pickle, Morahan

Skelton on for Horwill, Houston on for Palu. Both to happen at the same time between 50 and 60 minutes, depending on fatigue. Mumm to replace Carter or Fardy, depending on their condition. Moore to replace Polota-Nau at 45-50, Polota-Nau having been told to empty the tank early doing pick-and-go and running close to the ruck.

Continue to play Cheika-ball, but this time with the troops on the ground who can do it. Polota-Nau, Palu, Kerevi and Naiyaravoro as battering rams; Kepu, Hooper, Foley, Folau and Haylett-Petty for the finesse. Horne to replace Folau in the defensive line to give us two kick-receivers at the back. Phipps in cover for Naiyaravoro's defensive lapses - Pickle and Morahan to come on at 60, no later. Mumm is the replacement held back till 70, if someone goes down after that we take the risk.

I like a lot of what you say here, Hawko. But can I suggest that Foley is the Skelton of the backline. He has limited good skills as a 10 and has to have certain other players occupy the 11 and 12 spots to cover his deficiencies, thus compromising the whole of the backline operation.

Skelton, as you suggest, would force another replacement at the same time he comes on, potentially compromising the operation of the pack to accommodate him.

Unfortunately, I can't see the team working together efficiently while we have players who only perform part of their jobs and consequently demand certain others to be on the ground with them.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Kuridrani has never looked great playing at 13 outside Foley. He's the crash and bash centre that relies on brutality not finesse. He played pretty well in the first test minus the glory seeking no-pass. The problem is, his only crash ball on the weekend was a pop off Kerevi's shoulder.

The team beat 31 tackles, made 13 line breaks and ran 138 times for 4m a carry. The only Outside back you'd drop is Horne who was completely ineffective in attack.

Our attack lacked creativity. We just passed it from one side of the field to the other relying on Kerevi, DHP or Folau to bust a tackle. There wasn't one loop, not a play run where Kuridrani and Kerevi were both crashball options, with Folau out the back. Zero pick & go's. Foley's idea of creativity is dummy and run himself. Add to that poor passes & kicking.

Bernard Foley is the Wallabies Richard Graham. After feeble performances the Wallabies are going to give him the "appropriate support" with a whole bunch of new heads to guide him and paper over his in-deficiencies.

But Horne is essential to cover for Bernard in defense. Has been said a thousand times on this site (and not by Kearns).

 

[Joe Blow]

Why is dropping Simmons ridiculous, given he was dropped for Carter and he performed just as good if not better?

Because we need experience. That tips the scales in Simmons favor as there was little else between them. It's all well and good to throw these rookies in but it is test footy and we are without a large contingent of our most experienced test players.

 

[Viking]

Because we need experience. That tips the scales in Simmons favor as there was little else between them. It's all well and good to throw these rookies in but it is test footy and we are without a large contingent of our most experienced test players.

Can't exactly use that as an argument against Carter. He has a number of Test's to his name. He's played solid games against the All Blacks and Springboks already. Even won MOTM, (or player's choice) against the Boks I believe. He's not a veteran but he's not exactly a rookie either.

And personally I think his last Test was better then Simmons last Test.

 

[BarneySF]

Question to all you former-backs: What impact do you feel Andrew Johns has had with his coaching of England's back line?

Likely it will manifest itself in one of his patented banana kicks from open side back to the blind side in attack.

 

[Viking]

Question to all you former-backs: What impact do you feel Andrew Johns has had with his coaching of England's back line?

Not much. Probably more of a confidence booster then anything.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Question to all you former-backs: What impact do you feel Andrew Johns has had with his coaching of England's back line?

Additional question. How has Glen Ella gone as the attack/skills coach?

 

[fatprop]

Question to all you former-backs: What impact do you feel Andrew Johns has had with his coaching of England's back line?

not a lot, they haven't fired a shot in two matches (please show me where they have used guile and ball play to create a try)

they have won through good goal kicking and leveraging Aus errors, I think Jones called it "rope a dope" Absorb pressure, slow up the ruck and defend like demons; and repeat

 

[Braveheart81]

in the orange bibs
Sio
Carter
Frisby
?
Horwill
Mumm
? Palu
Gill

Hoopers not there because he defends in the 12 channel sometimes from a line out

I don't think Palu is in shot.

Isn't that TPN in an orange bib next to Moore at the right of the shot?

 

[Pfitzy]

OK I've found something to help some of you with your team selection, based on what you've posted in this thread so far.

I'm taking into account the complexity, sanity, and utter fucking randomness of your bullshit when I do this.

And I'm not naming names; you know who you are.

 

[fatprop]

Kuridrani has never looked great playing at 13 outside Foley. He's the crash and bash centre that relies on brutality not finesse. He played pretty well in the first test minus the glory seeking no-pass. The problem is, his only crash ball on the weekend was a pop off Kerevi's shoulder.

The team beat 31 tackles, made 13 line breaks and ran 138 times for 4m a carry. The only Outside back you'd drop is Horne who was completely ineffective in attack.

Our attack lacked creativity. We just passed it from one side of the field to the other relying on Kerevi, DHP or Folau to bust a tackle. There wasn't one loop, not a play run where Kuridrani and Kerevi were both crashball options, with Folau out the back. Zero pick & go's. Foley's idea of creativity is dummy and run himself. Add to that poor passes & kicking.

Bernard Foley is the Wallabies Richard Graham. After feeble performances the Wallabies are going to give him the "appropriate support" with a whole bunch of new heads to guide him and paper over his in-deficiencies.

Is the the same "Foley" who won the player ratings after the first match or someone else? Did you watch the press conference after the match?

Amazing how a player can turn to shit so quickly

Is this the same Horne who was made vice captain this season? (did you see some of his defensive efforts on Saturday, you know those ones where you make a tackle, get up, in the same phase and make the following tackle - they are the types of efforts Cheika requires, getting off your arse and getting back in play)

 

[Mr Doug]

OK I've found something to help some of you with your team selection, based on what you've posted in this thread so far.

I'm taking into account the complexity, sanity, and utter fucking randomness of your bullshit when I do this.

And I'm not naming names; you know who you are.

Maybe a little too "modern" for some here, Pfitzy. I think many still prefer the hat-pin and the telephone directory!!

 

[KOB1987]

1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Skelton
5. Simmons
6. Fardy
7. Hooper
8. McMahon
9. Phipps
10. Foley
11. Horne
12. To'omua
13. Kuridrani
14. DHP
15. Folau